Another Shooting in the US

[Captain...]

Sure theres a problem, and like I said previously I do believe there should be more restictions, its just the idea some brits have towards guns and seem to want everyone to think the same. As for your question yes you can buy them over the counter but I have little knowledge of the types of processes you need to quire guns, it varies from state to state...as far as I'm aware you need to fill out paperwork with ID, there can be background checks, some have waiting periods etc...

Not sure if this is true but I believe britain had similiar gun laws to the US back in the day, but even then crimes committed with guns in britain were still tiny compared to the US.

I think the love affair America has with guns and the sanctity of the constitution is just as big a problem as the actual access to guns.

[MooseBreath]

...its just the british attitude towards american gun ownership riles me slightly...they seem very blinkered in their view and its mainly based on misunderstandings and rarely do they put themselves in american shoes....and try and see it from another viewpoint.

Indeed, you certainly would never find any Americans attempting to impose their sense of what's right and wrong onto a foreign culture which they don't understa... oh, wait.

[purpleronnie]

Indeed, you certainly would never find any Americans attempting to impose their sense of what's right and wrong onto a foreign culture which they don't understa... oh, wait.

Relevance?

I think the love affair America has with guns and the sanctity of the constitution is just as big a problem as the actual access to guns.

I agree but I dont see why some amercans loving guns and enjoying shooting is a problem?

[Captain...]

Relevance?

I agree but I dont see why some amercans loving guns and enjoying shooting is a problem?

The main problem is any attempt to change and tighten regulations is immediately shot down as unconstitutional and is political suicide, so nothing gets done. It is not about stopping people doing something they enjoy, it is about ensuring that people are not hurt and killed unnecessarily. I have responsibly enjoyed a bit of recreational drug use in my time as do many others, and never hurt anyone but it is illegal for good reason because if misused it can cost people their lives.

[purpleronnie]

The main problem is any attempt to change and tighten regulations is immediately shot down as unconstitutional and is political suicide, so nothing gets done. It is not about stopping people doing something they enjoy, it is about ensuring that people are not hurt and killed unnecessarily. I have responsibly enjoyed a bit of recreational drug use in my time as do many others, and never hurt anyone but it is illegal for good reason because if misused it can cost people their lives.

Some might say any illegal drug consumed is misused...as its illegal, gun ownership is not.

[Captain...]

Some might say any illegal drug consumed is misused...as its illegal, gun ownership is not.

So if it is legal then it is OK for people not of sound mind to buy guns without a proper background check.

[purpleronnie]

So if it is legal then it is OK for people not of sound mind to buy guns without a proper background check.

What do you want a full psychiatric evaluation before they are able to buy one, brevik was of sound mind and he killed...well you know.

[Captain...]

What do you want a full psychiatric evaluation before they are able to buy one, brevik was of sound mind and he killed...well you know.

Why not why shouldn't you look into the background of someone before you give them the means of killing many people very easily. I'm not talking about hunting rifles but hand guns that serve no purpose but to kill another human being. It doesn't have to be massively invasive but a quick check of medical and police records could eliminate some of the problems.

[purpleronnie]

Why not why shouldn't you look into the background of someone before you give them the means of killing many people very easily. I'm not talking about hunting rifles but hand guns that serve no purpose but to kill another human being. It doesn't have to be massively invasive but a quick check of medical and police records could eliminate some of the problems.

Some states do background checks, I'm just confused about what exactly you want to be checked, if the background check comes back with a concern the person wouldnt be able to purchase a gun, if you just want background checks as standard I agree but they aint going to need a psychiatric evaluation because thats ridiculas we all know physiatrist can evaluate one person different ways...it just makes it meaningless.

[Captain...]

Some states do background checks, I'm just confused about what exactly you want to be checked, if the background check comes back with a concern the person wouldnt be able to purchase a gun, if you just want background checks as standard I agree but they aint going to need a psychiatric evaluation because thats ridiculas we all know physiatrist can evaluate one person different ways...it just makes it meaningless.

But some states don't which is worrying, it is just the attitude in the states seems to be that these are not tools of death and destruction, but some perfectly normal thing to have in the house. It doesn't help that fox news amongst others, promotes fear and anger among the population but that is probably another thread.

I don't really know what you are arguing about to be honest, you've said you would welcome stricter gun laws, which is all I'm saying. The psychiatric testing was your idea.

[Jordan]

Yes that's what I meant by saying that I wouldn't give up my guns if I lived there. I'd want them to protect my home and family in case of some event involving a crazy citizen or two. I didn't mean I'd stash guns to fight police with or anything of that sort.

And, this is to Jordan, I said the 'burying guns around the state' part as sort of a joke regarding my conspiracy side that thinks there will be some sort of a civil war type thing over there when the government tries to take peoples guns away. In that situation a gun or two would come in handy while you're trying to wait it out!

Perhaps it's worth noting why I responded so brusquely to your comments. For the record, I think I have at least some sense of humor, I don't walk around every day worried about whether or not I'm going to get shot, and I am aware of your conspiracist leanings.

In recent years--beginning perhaps precisely on November 5, 2008--there has been an alarming rise in the amount of weapons and ammunition being purchased in the United States among both individuals seeking to own guns and among militia-style and domestically-based terrorist organizations.

Much of these people and organizations have anti-Obama, anti-Democratic Party, anti-UN, anti-Zionist, anti-New World Order and anti-government tendencies. But, to make things even more lovely, a lot of those arming themselves against an imaginary crackdown by the government have racist, neo-Nazi and white supremacist beliefs.

If you think your far right is bad, you should see some of the scum that lives on our side of the pond. Here's a sampling of what's going on inside the American lunatic fringe:

SPLC: Hate Groups Claim Obama Win is Sparking Recruitment Surge (November 6, 2008)

ABC: Hate Groups Grow as Racial Tipping Point Changes Demographics (May 18, 2012) "According to the SPLC, the number of radical "anti-government" militia groups increased from 150 to 1,274 during the years of the Obama presidency."

As for the goverment "taking away our guns," it's simply not true:

snopes.com on claims that the UN Small Arms Treaty will supercede the Second Amendment (July 28, 2012)

CBS's Dallas-Fort Worth affiliate: Texas Judge Preparing for 'Civil War' if Obama re-elected (August 22, 2012)

Salon.com: NRA's doomsaying sham (July 24, 2012)

These sorts of things have consequences:

Reuters: U.S. Army battling racists within its own ranks (August 21, 2012)

The Atlantic: Prosecutors: U.S. Soldiers Plotted to Kill Obama (a chilling story that broke today)

This is certainly enough to concern reasonable people--even if such groups are still relatively well marginalized--and I find nothing about this to be funny. We might have a lot of differences, but I'm sure you an I can find a common enemy here.

Edited 27 August 2012 by Jordan

[BoneDog]

I wasn't suggesting you don't have a sense of humour or anything, I only explained what I'd said because of your reaction which made me wonder what people thought I meant!

The groups you mention above (I have read a fair bit about them and seen their videos) are part of the reason I would own guns if I lived there. The likelihood of one coming in handy at some point to protect your home, if living in the US, seems quite high. There are too many armed and dangerous people around to not have one if you ask me.

I think that there are far too many guns already in the US, which means that even if the government enforces a ban and confiscation, there will still be hundreds of thousands of illegal guns in the country. And when people are getting poorer, and millions of people are losing their homes and jobs, it doesn't bode well.

You call it an 'imaginary crackdown', but I'm not so sure. It's going to happen sooner or later.

Edited 28 August 2012 by El Empty

[Heskey2011]

More than 85 people a day are killed with guns and more than twice that number are injured with them every day in the US. The only reason we're hearing about the recent shootings is because of their inflamatory nature.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/16/americas-deadly-devotion-guns

[Haydos]

More than 85 people a day are killed with guns and more than twice that number are injured with them every day in the US. The only reason we're hearing about the recent shootings is because of their inflamatory nature.

http://www.guardian....y-devotion-guns

85 fatalities a day! That's genuinely shocking, I had no idea it was anywhere near that bad.

And American get 'annoyed' with foreigners attitudes towards guns there? Wonder why.

[purpleronnie]

Its a decent write up that, especially mentioning how Americans believe government should be subservient to them, although its a generalisation its truer than anywhere else I've been especially Britain where we seem only to happy to go along with everything were ,in the US there are a large amount of the population who dont believe in the 'big government' and bottom line is they dont like being told what to do they believe it infringes on their liberty and freedom...and there are certain aspects of that I like.

[Webbo]

,in the US there are a large amount of the population who dont believe in the 'big government' and bottom line is they dont like being told what to do they believe it infringes on their liberty and freedom...and there are certain aspects of that I like.

So do I.

[ADK]

Trouble is with America it is so obvious when you go there how much people are influenced by advertising and then they think they have so much freedom being able to own a handgun when their entire lifestyle is dictated to them by large companies.

[purpleronnie]

Trouble is with America it is so obvious when you go there how much people are influenced by advertising and then they think they have so much freedom being able to own a handgun when their entire lifestyle is dictated to them by large companies.

Not sure advertising and control by the government can be classed as the same thing.

[Smudge]

Trouble is with America it is so obvious when you go there how much people are influenced by advertising and then they think they have so much freedom being able to own a handgun when their entire lifestyle is dictated to them by large companies.

I just don't understand this. What advertising is influencing me to buy a hand gun. Oh and I don't get the large companies bit, do you mean their advertising or that they employ so many people.

Edited 29 August 2012 by Smudge

[Guest]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34419802

 

Another one it seems

[Finnaldo]

Wasn't there one in South Dakota the other day?It's not even surprising and that's horrific considering we're talking school shootings. If they can't draw up some kind of gun control after Sandyhook I have no hope.

What an absolutely backwater culture most those Yanks uphold, I can't help but get infuriated with the selfishness they have, letting children die to aid their sickening culture of self entitlement. "The bible says this", "the constitution says this". Valuing a piece of paper wrote on 230+ years ago and another one wrote over 2000 years ago by fvcking desert nomad over innocent kids lives, whilst a leading Republican (that despicable cvnt Marsha Blackburn) doesn't even believe in Evolution. Fvck off.

[Captain...]

How thoroughly depressingly unsurprising.

[Wymsey]

I can see Obama saying (yet again) along the line of 'The US need new laws/rules to stop these distressing shootings from happening on our land'.

 

But nothing will happen (in terms of enforcements) after.

Edited 1 October 2015 by Wymeswold fox

[marko]

45th school shooting of 2015.

 

When will they say enough is enough?

[lgfualol]

15 dead at least I heard. This is ****ed up.

No doubt the shooters face and name will be posted everywhere as usual, leading to more sad ***** to do the same thing.

The shooter posted all about it on 4chan yesterday I heard.