seenitall Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 I've been looking back at the goal scoring records of some of our favourite (I assume) players such as Gary Lineker, Alan Smith, Alan Young, Tony Cottee, Matty Fryatt and Paul Dickov and at their scoring stats. Although they all had a good season (at least one) where they scored on the upper teens of goals (Gary in the 20's...... sigh), they nearly all had poor seasons with us as well yet managed to come through. I wonder if the game has become so focussed now on instant success or whether we have always been impatient for players to come into form? I say this as we seem keen to push Beckford out (his form has been average in the league 1 goal in 4, but fairly strong over the whole season over 1 in 3), yet his 1 in 4 in the league is as good as Alan Young, his harshest critic, ever achieved for us. I'm sure we thought Youngy was good back then???? Years ago, we would have expected a player like Beckford to serve a year or two getting average results with a view to him becoming a legend in years three and four - now we want him out after maybe 25 starts and a handful of sub appearances - why or when did this change or am I just imagining it? PS - Not a Beckford thread - more general than that - can apply to midfielders (Danns) defenders (SSL, Mills etc) and even managers!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 I think the birth of the internet had something to do with it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucalion Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 Maybe the average Saturday evening pub conversation in the 80s would've contained as much pessimism, negativity and toy throwing as Foxestalk? It just had a smaller audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_w Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 I've been looking back at the goal scoring records of some of our favourite (I assume) players such as Gary Lineker, Alan Smith, Alan Young, Tony Cottee, Matty Fryatt and Paul Dickov and at their scoring stats. Although they all had a good season (at least one) where they scored on the upper teens of goals (Gary in the 20's...... sigh), they nearly all had poor seasons with us as well yet managed to come through. I wonder if the game has become so focussed now on instant success or whether we have always been impatient for players to come into form? I say this as we seem keen to push Beckford out (his form has been average in the league 1 goal in 4, but fairly strong over the whole season over 1 in 3), yet his 1 in 4 in the league is as good as Alan Young, his harshest critic, ever achieved for us. I'm sure we thought Youngy was good back then???? Years ago, we would have expected a player like Beckford to serve a year or two getting average results with a view to him becoming a legend in years three and four - now we want him out after maybe 25 starts and a handful of sub appearances - why or when did this change or am I just imagining it? PS - Not a Beckford thread - more general than that - can apply to midfielders (Danns) defenders (SSL, Mills etc) and even managers!!!!! King of the Hypocrites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1984summer Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 i would say the difference between Beckford and all the others mentioned is that Beckford shows no desire, work rate, enthusiasm and willingness. i dont expect any striker to score every game but i do expect 100% every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxford blue Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 ...and large wages. If a player is being paid as much in a week or two as most people earn every year, there will be more pressure on him to perform well. I don't think that's unreasonable. I also think that, on the whole, there's more tolerance to players who clearly show 100% effort every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 It's not about the internet. Beckford has so underwhelmed some people (though not all by any means or so it would appear) that some have just lost patience with him. It's the same with Danns. Both players were signed with the expectation that they would deliver great things. The expectation versus what we've actually seen from them is an important calculation. Put a player on a pedestal, only to find they actually ain't that great equals disappointment and a loss of patience. Sven ( and the board) didn't help with this either. Both players signed on allegedly big wages....so again the expectation is they will both deliver. Exactly the same with Mills. With Pearson it's a different situation, or it is in my mind anyway. I have NO expectation that we will be promoted this season. Therefore, I'm happy to wait, patiently for the likes of Drinky, James, Knocky to develop and to flourish and to become better players for the club. For the final time.... Sven and his quick fix approach to getting City promoted has damaged the club, the fans and our public perception. It raised levels of expectation so greatly that anything other than promotion last season was going to be seen as failure. With that came impatience towards Beckford, Mills, Danns, fat Johnno, SSL because they were all part of 'Svens project'. Nige's project is different.. It's methodical, it's patient, it's developing young players, it's less wages etc etc. Anyone who can see what Pearson is trying to do will also wait, watch and see. And will accept promotion this season as a major bonus. Not so when we were under Sven. I'm not gonna knock you mate cos I actually think you raise a very salient issue. And that's my response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxfanazer Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 People comment when their emotions are running high (ie; after a loss) so their views aren't always the most objective. Id love us to get promoted to the prem but for me it's not the be all and end all. Happy with what NP is trying to build here and I'm excited about some of the players we are developing. we won't do it the easy way but when we get there, which I have no doubt we will, it will be even sweeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tielemans63 Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 Capitalism. It's all Reagan and Thatcher's mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 I reckon it probably ties up with the gradual rise in ticket prices over the last few years. People are paying way above what they were expected to in the past, hence now demand to be entertained for their money week in, week out. In the process they've forgotten that football isn't like a trip to the pictures or a theme park, where you're guaranteed to be entertained. Thus this leads quickly to impatience when we're locked in a game with hoofball against Barnsley. Unfortunately a large proportion of these types of bellends seem to support us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 The problem is money, in the past we had to make do with what we had and get the best out of them, now we have the money to replace people. Saying that, Not every player from the good old days that had a poor season would get another chance, Bobby Davison was poor and was sold, Mark Robins came in with a big reputation and was poor. The biggest changes were the Bosman ruling and the transfer window. Now player power is much stronger, if they want to leave they can, if they want more money they can get it. Players are as responsible as the clubs for the number transfers that are now the norm. With the transfer window also making it now essential for clubs to have squads of 25+ first teamers. Whereas in the past you only needed 15 and any transfers were made as needed. All of this means that lots of transfers and players having 7/8 clubs or clubs making 10 transfers in the window is normal. This then leads to fans not having any loyalty to players not getting too attached because they could be gone next window likewise the players have no loyalty as money talks. I don't care if Danns or SSL go because I felt they only came here for money and as a stepping stone and were never going to stick around if someone else came in, and I have felt like that about most of our players signed since np left. I feel like players like Marshall, James, Drinkwater and the others have come because they have something to prove and not for the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty78 Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 It would be interesting to see the reaction of our fans should a player have a storming season this year and hand in transfer request as a result of us not getting promoted. Would we accept their lack of patience with our club and the unwillingness to honour their contracts? Would we have any right to be angry at that player for showing the same sort of loyalty they can expect to receive should they not play as well as we had all hoped? I get the feeling that if Vardy or Knockaert had a brilliant year and we missed out on promotion they would get slaughtered for wanting to leave should they want to but that is no different than us wanting players moved on after one lacklustre season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I blame Wellens Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 When Martin changed the expectation of every fan. Jesus, remember some of the players we use to love when Brian was in charge. Paul Fitzpatrick, Phil Gee, The BIG O, Rooster Russell, Colin Gordon and Gary Coatsworth They were essentially sh*t, but sh*t in a good way. No forget I said Gary Coatsworth he was just sh*t! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlueBrett Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 Nobody has any patience with anything any more it's not just confined to football. I blame it on the X factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuddly ken Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 The problem is money, in the past we had to make do with what we had and get the best out of them, now we have the money to replace people. Saying that, Not every player from the good old days that had a poor season would get another chance, Bobby Davison was poor and was sold, Mark Robins came in with a big reputation and was poor. The biggest changes were the Bosman ruling and the transfer window. Now player power is much stronger, if they want to leave they can, if they want more money they can get it. Players are as responsible as the clubs for the number transfers that are now the norm. With the transfer window also making it now essential for clubs to have squads of 25+ first teamers. Whereas in the past you only needed 15 and any transfers were made as needed. All of this means that lots of transfers and players having 7/8 clubs or clubs making 10 transfers in the window is normal. This then leads to fans not having any loyalty to players not getting too attached because they could be gone next window likewise the players have no loyalty as money talks. I don't care if Danns or SSL go because I felt they only came here for money and as a stepping stone and were never going to stick around if someone else came in, and I have felt like that about most of our players signed since np left. I feel like players like Marshall, James, Drinkwater and the others have come because they have something to prove and not for the money. And what makes you think the new players aren't on a fair wedge too? They won't sign for nowt, their agents would know what the other players are on and would ask for the same. Mindless speculation on this site yet again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I blame Wellens Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 The problem is money, in the past we had to make do with what we had and get the best out of them, now we have the money to replace people. Saying that, Not every player from the good old days that had a poor season would get another chance, Bobby Davison was poor and was sold, Mark Robins came in with a big reputation and was poor. Jesus Bobby Davidson forgot all about him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 PS - Not a Beckford thread - more general than that - can apply to midfielders (Danns) defenders (SSL, Mills etc) and even managers!!!!! Even managers? Good, I'd like to give Pearson the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Year Of The Fox Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 Since fans began to think we're better and bigger than we actually are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 And what makes you think the new players aren't on a fair wedge too? They won't sign for nowt, their agents would know what the other players are on and would ask for the same. Mindless speculation on this site yet again! I'm sure they are on decent money, but reserves from Stoke, Kids from Man U, french second division, are unlikely to be on as much as seasoned pros/internationals signed when we were throwing money around like it was going out of fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zingari Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 Good point really .OP I think society in general is more impatient and demanding of instant gratification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 Good point really .OP I think society in general is more impatient and demanding of instant gratification See the "Guess the Song" thread for examples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zingari Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 See the "Guess the Song" thread for examples Yes , gimme gimme gimme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 And what makes you think the new players aren't on a fair wedge too? They won't sign for nowt, their agents would know what the other players are on and would ask for the same. Mindless speculation on this site yet again! It is not mindless speculation it is opinion, I am talking about how I feel about these players. Good work at missing the point too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan LCFC Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 I reckon it probably ties up with the gradual rise in ticket prices over the last few years. People are paying way above what they were expected to in the past, hence now demand to be entertained for their money week in, week out. In the process they've forgotten that football isn't like a trip to the pictures or a theme park, where you're guaranteed to be entertained. Thus this leads quickly to impatience when we're locked in a game with hoofball against Barnsley. Unfortunately a large proportion of these types of bellends seem to support us. I think the fact football has become so focused around what happens on the pitch, the fact they limit you to a ridiculous extent off the pitch so the focus is fully on it, and I fully agree prices have made you expect a lot more = thus more booing etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Post Gerry Posted 13 September 2012 Share Posted 13 September 2012 IMO it's because the fans now feel less part of the club. It's not the fans' club anymore - we can't relate to the players' lifestyles and ridiculous salaries. Players are more mercenary and don't feel part of the city. So what happens? Fans start looking in and treating it more like a gameshow, rather than part of their lives. Players are now characters to be booed/lauded/villified etc, rather than regular guys you can empathise with. Shame really; blame the Premier League, Big Brother, Bosman, Maggie Thatcher, Simon Cowell... It's a sad, plastic combination of them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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