Carl the Llama Posted 23 October 2012 Posted 23 October 2012 You want pics of pick pockets ? No, just something to back up your assertion that it's a fact and it's just normal practice when citing documents as proof to make said doc available.
flowwolf Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 No, just something to back up your assertion that it's a fact and it's just normal practice when citing documents as proof to make said doc available. Google latest crime figures in the UK.
Bettsj2 Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 Well the latest home office report says that crime is down in all categories except for one Pick pocketing. Now unless there is an arch villain Fagin type somewhere running a night school on how to pick a pocket or two I would say that is down to certain groups of immigrants ( most illegal ) who are world renowned for that particular criminal activity. You get them in any holiday resorts abroad Spain, Portugal ect and they are detested by the locals and the local Police. So since are stupid politicians thought fit to throw open our boarders they have been coming here thinking it's pick pocket heaven and boy are they right. Now then does my opinion or observation of the facts make me a racist for saying this ? and yes they are facts there is now a special undercover police unit in Leicester dealing with just this one particular crime and nine times out of ten it is one particular immigrant group responsible for it. It was a government statement about crime figures that actually highlighted the pick pocketing why do you think it was highlighted ? Of course it doesnt make you a racist. You say a particular group is responsible and that you are backed up by facts. If you'd have said, 'its a group of dirty immigrant *****', then that would suggest racist tendancies. Its ridiculous to walk around with the attitude of, 'ooh, you cant say that. People will think you're racist', because thats no way to live and no ethnic race of any kind would want that. What people shouldnt do, is dismiss all kind of common sense and say things like, 'well, they call each other nigger so why cant I?' Etc etc. There is no need to bring colour, background, religion into anything unless its absolutely relevant.
purpleronnie Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 Its a difficult one and theres various reasons why the figures could look like a higher percentage of immigrants or black people commit certain crimes its very easy to leap to conclusions which are not justified by the figures, if the police believe that a certain 'group', 'race' 'type' is causing certain crimes they they will traget that 'group' 'race' 'type' the Equality Commission assumes that such a practice shows that officers must be covertly racist. This doesnt mean that more black people commit certain crimes its just if you target a certain race then that will have a bearing on the statistics.
Bettsj2 Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 Its a difficult one and theres various reasons why the figures could look like a higher percentage of immigrants or black people commit certain crimes its very easy to leap to conclusions which are not justified by the figures, if the police believe that a certain 'group', 'race' 'type' is causing certain crimes they they will traget that 'group' 'race' 'type' the Equality Commission assumes that such a practice shows that officers must be covertly racist. This doesnt mean that more black people commit certain crimes its just if you target a certain race then that will have a bearing on the statistics. That is true but on the other hand, if the Police have info that (for instance) a Somalian Gang are commiting street robbery by knifepoint in St Matthews, its unlikely they will look to stop and search white men in Stoneygate. That isnt a racist act by the Police, its just trying to enforce the law in accordance to the info they have received.
purpleronnie Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 That is true but on the other hand, if the Police have info that (for instance) a Somalian Gang are commiting street robbery by knifepoint in St Matthews, its unlikely they will look to stop and search white men in Stoneygate. That isnt a racist act by the Police, its just trying to enforce the law in accordance to the info they have received. thats exactly my point though....and thats why people may get swayed (incorrectly) in the assumption that certain races commit certain crimes.
Bettsj2 Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 thats exactly my point though....and thats why people may get swayed (incorrectly) in the assumption that certain races commit certain crimes. Agree with you. But if people are happy to jump to that conclusion, not a great deal can be done. Or can it? I really dont know if there is any solution to the problem. I think society hoped it would just be become a thing of the past and die out as generations move on, unfortunately, some elements of society dont want it to.
MooseBreath Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 If a particular demographic commits a proportionately higher amount of crime then it's perfectly justified for it to receive a proportionately higher amount of attention from the police.
Nick Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 If a particular demographic commits a proportionately higher amount of crime then it's perfectly justified for it to receive a proportionately higher amount of attention from the police. Absolutely - so a) Tell me which 'demographic' is committing more of which particular crime or types of crime? and b) Is the evidence based on reported crime or convictions? (Which are more likely to ensue toward one particular demographic if said demographic is the majority target of Police intervention. This demographics proportion, in terms of total representation of population within the area should also be considered.)
1964FOX Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 Most people regardless of race that are stopped are young males as they commit most of the crime, as others has stated the stats provide the best group for cops to stop to have the most success in preventing and detecting crime. It has nothing todo with any kind of 'ism' it's purel playing the percentages for the best results.
Dr The Singh Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 Absolutely - so a) Tell me which 'demographic' is committing more of which particular crime or types of crime? and b) Is the evidence based on reported crime or convictions? (Which are more likely to ensue toward one particular demographic if said demographic is the majority target of Police intervention. This demographics proportion, in terms of total representation of population within the area should also be considered.) Love it Nick!!
MooseBreath Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 Absolutely - so a) Tell me which 'demographic' is committing more of which particular crime or types of crime? and b) Is the evidence based on reported crime or convictions? (Which are more likely to ensue toward one particular demographic if said demographic is the majority target of Police intervention. This demographics proportion, in terms of total representation of population within the area should also be considered.) a) it's not my job to keep a record of such things. b) i would go on convictions. And for your last point, yes of course.
ADK Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 Regardless of whether it is justified, if the police are using racial profiling in an attempt to reduce crime it is unfair to label them as racist. It is fair to analyse the effectiveness of such measures of course.
Daggers Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 a) it's not my job to keep a record of such things. No. No it is not. Your job is to serve large portions of fries with them apples. And be quick about it, boy.
MooseBreath Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 No. No it is not. Your job is to serve large portions of fries with them apples. And be quick about it, boy. You must have used up all your humour on another hilarious name change
Daggers Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 You must have used up all your humour on another hilarious name change You appear to be confused, not everything in life is a commodity like burgers. I realise that when one spends one's day knee-deep in Fillet'o'Fish and pickles one might see it as being all there is, but when you go home you will see real life outside your bus window.
Guest Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 No. No it is not. Your job is to serve large portions of fries with them apples. And be quick about it, boy.
Captain... Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 Agree with you. But if people are happy to jump to that conclusion, not a great deal can be done. Or can it? I really dont know if there is any solution to the problem. I think society hoped it would just be become a thing of the past and die out as generations move on, unfortunately, some elements of society dont want it to. I think what purpleronnie is saying is that it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, if there was statistically an equal chance of finding drugs or guns on a person regardless of race, then if you stop and search more black guys than white guys, the figures will show more black guys are caught with drugs from random searches than white guys, then you start to focus more on searching black guys due to criminal profiling, more black guys are convicted of having drugs or guns, and then it swings even further to suggest that more black guys should be stopped and searched. If you don't stop any white guys, then the statistics will show that no white guys have been convicted from a random stop and search, so they are not effective. If you get what I mean.
MooseBreath Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 You appear to be confused, not everything in life is a commodity like burgers. I realise that when one spends one's day knee-deep in Fillet'o'Fish and pickles one might see it as being all there is, but when you go home you will see real life outside your bus window. How's that midlife crisis going old man? Died you hair another bright colour yet? Pink this time is it? To match the pink handcuffs your boyfriend ties you up with.
Bettsj2 Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 I think what purpleronnie is saying is that it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, if there was statistically an equal chance of finding drugs or guns on a person regardless of race, then if you stop and search more black guys than white guys, the figures will show more black guys are caught with drugs from random searches than white guys, then you start to focus more on searching black guys due to criminal profiling, more black guys are convicted of having drugs or guns, and then it swings even further to suggest that more black guys should be stopped and searched. If you don't stop any white guys, then the statistics will show that no white guys have been convicted from a random stop and search, so they are not effective. If you get what I mean. Yes I do and in all honesty, never thought of it in those terms before.
Daggers Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 How's that midlife crisis going old man? Died you hair another bright colour yet? Pink this time is it? To match the pink handcuffs your boyfriend ties you up with. What's the matter? Didn't make Employee of the Month again? You seem all tense, I can send my boyfriend over to give you a massage if you like. He's fvcking brilliant with his hands.
Webbo Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 I think what purpleronnie is saying is that it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, if there was statistically an equal chance of finding drugs or guns on a person regardless of race, then if you stop and search more black guys than white guys, the figures will show more black guys are caught with drugs from random searches than white guys, then you start to focus more on searching black guys due to criminal profiling, more black guys are convicted of having drugs or guns, and then it swings even further to suggest that more black guys should be stopped and searched. If you don't stop any white guys, then the statistics will show that no white guys have been convicted from a random stop and search, so they are not effective. If you get what I mean. Are they random searches though or are they based on intelligence? As someone has already said if there is a report of a mugging by 2 black men in Highfields then it's a waste of time to search 2 white men in Thurmaston just to fulfil some politically correct quota.
Captain... Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 Are they random searches though or are they based on intelligence? As someone has already said if there is a report of a mugging by 2 black men in Highfields then it's a waste of time to search 2 white men in Thurmaston just to fulfil some politically correct quota. In my scenario yes, I am not suggesting that if you have an id on a perp you should check people who don't fit the description, just to be all PC PC.
purpleronnie Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 If a particular demographic commits a proportionately higher amount of crime then it's perfectly justified for it to receive a proportionately higher amount of attention from the police. Of course but the problem arises when people assume that certain races commit certain crimes.....just because they are targeted doesnt proove anything and if one race is targeted it will always give a more unbalanced overall view.
MooseBreath Posted 24 October 2012 Posted 24 October 2012 Of course but the problem arises when people assume that certain races commit certain crimes.....just because they are targeted doesnt proove anything and if one race is targeted it will always give a more unbalanced overall view. Well then in the case of pulling over drivers you just use a conviction per pull over measure
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