The quality of today's professional footballer's.

[Kinowe Soorie]

Is the standard getting any better? I've slagged off Konchesky in another thread because I don't rate him. I think back to a player such as Mike Whitlow, who in my opinion was a better player. Gary Mills, Steve Thompson, Tommy Wright (original one) Ewan Roberts, Kevin Poole and Steve Walsh. The list could go on. They were good, honest quality players at this level. What are your thoughts?

[shade]

nah. they just weren't paid stupid money.

[Dan LCFC]

You'll never be able to genuinely compare the standard - but all I'll say is players now have it easier, and are bigged up more by the media.

[Manwell Pablo]

Is the standard getting any better? I've slagged off Konchesky in another thread because I don't rate him. I think back to a player such as Mike Whitlow, who in my opinion was a better player. Gary Mills, Steve Thompson, Tommy Wright (original one) Ewan Roberts, Kevin Poole and Steve Walsh. The list could go on. They were good, honest quality players at this level. What are your thoughts?

 

Really?

 

On subject, It's all relative, the standard is better therefore you have to be better to stand out, you don't get heavy drinkers like Ruddock marshalling defences anymore, your super fit or you're out.. And Konchesky isn't the best example, we had Whitlow in his prime, and no matter what anyone says about Konchesky he earned himself 2 England cups and played in the Europa League final during his time at Fulham.

[inckley fox]

Really?

 

On subject, It's all relative, the standard is better therefore you have to be better to stand out, you don't get heavy drinkers like Ruddock marshalling defences anymore, your super fit or you're out.. And Konchesky isn't the best example, we had Whitlow in his prime, and no matter what anyone says about Konchesky he earned himself 2 England cups and played in the Europa League final during his time at Fulham.

 

I think Konchesky was 30 when we signed him and his fee, while undisclosed, was reported in some places as being over a million. He was hardly a 'has been'; in fact he was only a little older than Claridge and Dickov when we signed them, and significantly younger than the likes of Deane, Speedie, Ferdinand, Cottee, McKinlay and many more.

 

And as for the comparison between Whitlow and Konchesky; I think the former also had his career highs. He won promotion with Leeds, Leicester and Bolton, played in the top flight for most of his career - and until he was 35, won a League Cup and was just a single match off getting a Champions' medal with Leeds in 1992.

[inckley fox]

I'm not convinced that the standard is better. The game is faster, more powerful and more stamina-based. There are aspects of past eras which were undoubtedly better: There were more players who liked to run with the ball in years gone by and the slide tackle - due to the changing rules of the game - played a bigger role. Football tended towards being less direct. The long ball 'kick and rush' tactics used by sides like Wimbledon, Cambridge and Sheffield United were neither discredited nor sussed, in my opinion, but rather incorporated into the wider game. On top of that playing surfaces were much poorer, which inevitably had an impact on the style of play.

 

It was a different game altogether. I wouldn't like to say it was any worse than what we've got now. In some ways it was, but in others it was better. Which may explain why the likes of Giggs can keep up to pace with it as they approach 40.

 

I think one noticeable change in the English game in the past 10-15 years has been the falling quality of set piece deliveries / less goals coming from the Guppy/Beckham-esque swooping crosses from out wide; with many sides preferring to play it through the middle, or going for the more 'continental' slow build-up. However every now and then a player who can whip in that sort of ball - or make the perfectly measured slide tackle, or play the old fashioned English forward role, or dribble - comes along and succeeds in being effective, even though they're not in keeping with current trends in the game.

[Manwell Pablo]

I think Konchesky was 30 when we signed him and his fee, while undisclosed, was reported in some places as being over a million. He was hardly a 'has been'; in fact he was only a little older than Claridge and Dickov when we signed them, and significantly younger than the likes of Deane, Speedie, Ferdinand, Cottee, McKinlay and many more.

 

And as for the comparison between Whitlow and Konchesky; I think the former also had his career highs. He won promotion with Leeds, Leicester and Bolton, played in the top flight for most of his career - and until he was 35, won a League Cup and was just a single match off getting a Champions' medal with Leeds in 1992.

 

It's a comparison between two players Whitlow and Konchesky so not sure why you've bought those players or indeed his fee into it, I am unsure slightly odd. Whitlow was here in his prime, Konchesky, even if you ignore the fact that he has not aged well at all, was not. 

 

And that part wasn't even compairing Konchesky and Whitlow, it was making the point that he was for several years a very good player whos performances managed to earn him a move to a Champions League side. 

 

Anyway it wasn't an attempt at discrediting Mike Whitlow, it's more making the point the Konchesky was a lot better than he is now and compairing the two on performances in a Leicester shirt is slightly unfair.

[john doe]

 jamie lawrence? armed robber .neil lewis glassed someone . walsh shaggin everything 

[Grewks]

You'll never be able to genuinely compare the standard - but all I'll say is players now have it easier, and are bigged up more by the media.

 

 

Totally disagree with this part.

 

 

There are paid a ridiculous amount of money for a job many of us would do for less than minimum wage. However, players these days cannot do anything without the attention of the press.

 

 

Would you like to wander around any public place with constant photographs being taken, autographs being asked for, or just people coming over for a chat over and over again. People talking and pointing at you, being aggressive towards you because of who you are, what you earn etc.

 

 

You would never live a normal life again.

[SystonFox]

I'd let them do what they want and say what they want all day about me for 200k a week.

Fvcking overpaid nonces

Saying that. Konchesky in his prime a much better player than Whitlow in his prime.

A premier league XI of 1995 would get merked by a prem league xi of 2013

[Mike Oxlong]

SSL drives a Bentley.

Nothing against the bloke but an average championship defender driving a fvckin Bentley.

World's gone tits up if you ask me.

[Fox92]

It's not a footballers fault he gets paid what he does. If someone says 'here sign for Leicester and we will pay you 20k a week', then I'm going to do it.

 

It's the passion and commitment that annoys me. For all that money they get, how many of them actually care/want to play for Leicester? Moore. Maybe that's it. And if anything was to happen to the club, how many of them would stick around? Probably, none.

 

When I was younger, we had players like Izzet and Walsh. Were they the greatest players in the World? No. But they would give 100% and do anything to ensure that we won. Look at the passion in Walsh's face when he scores against Arsenal. It's great to see... Some of our players don't even tackle. Players like Gallagher back out of challenges. It's not nice to see as a fan, and I think that's a reason why most of us get frustrated. All you want is 100% from a player. Vardy, for example, isn't our best player, but at least he will try all game.

 

Watch the 02/03 season review. Izzet says something like 'the lads that got the club relegated, wanted to get them promoted again'. It's just a great thing to hear/see. Compare that to our 08/09 season review, where Nigel Pearson says 'when I first came in as manager, four players made it clear they didn't want to be at the club but that didn't bother me'. 

 

I see a players linked with another club, such as Dyer or Gallagher. Someone posts 'good servant'. But I don't think that. A good servant is a Walsh or a Izzet, playing for the club, giving everything for the club, sticking around for years. I do think the days of getting attached to a player are nearly over. You see Izzet linked with Middlesbrough, Heskey linked with Liverpool and you hope they don't go. I saw someone post on here that they cried when Heskey left. Could you see someone doing that now?

[Captain...]

The players mentioned were all good honest hard working professionals, giving at their all every week and making the most of their ability by playing a good disciplined game, a good defender back then was required to keep the shape of the team at the back, move out together in a line and clear the ball as a first priority, and not have to play the ball.

 

If Whitlow was playing today as he did 20 years ago he would be at a League One side, 2 reasons for that, first is his style of play, but the other is that quality in the second tier is so much higher now, with getting rid of the 3 foreigners rule, the premiership has much fewer English players, they have to go somewhere and they aren't going abroad, so they end up in the Championship. Championship clubs also have many foreign imports, not necessarily good ones, so good solid pros get pushed down to the lower leagues.

 

Comparing Whitlow to Konchesky, Whitlow didn't have the engine Konch has, regardless of age, he is constantly motoring up and down that flank, but he was also less error prone, but then it is harder to make errors if you are expected to boot the ball into the stands when under pressure instead of try and keep possession.

[foxfanazer]

As others have said, it's all relative.

I think at the very top of the game the standard is better now

[Deucalion]

I'd let them do what they want and say what they want all day about me for 200k a week.

Fvcking overpaid nonces

Saying that. Konchesky in his prime a much better player than Whitlow in his prime.

A premier league XI of 1995 would get merked by a prem league xi of 2013

 

Is that just a result of the buying power of the Premier League now?

 

What would happen if you only included homegrown top-flight players?

 

Is that a fairer test?

[inckley fox]

I'd let them do what they want and say what they want all day about me for 200k a week.

Fvcking overpaid nonces

Saying that. Konchesky in his prime a much better player than Whitlow in his prime.

A premier league XI of 1995 would get merked by a prem league xi of 2013

More players from the mid-90s continued to play into their late 30s than from any other era in the history of the game. Scholes, Phil Neville and Beckham were all still playing last season; Giggs this season. It suggests that the quality they had at the peaks of their careers was still massively effective in today's game, even when they were well past their best.

 

And, if we're talking of direct comparisons, you can't get much better than looking at how players who have played in both of the aforementioned eras have fared. I'm not really sure what other way there is of comparing 1995 with 2013.

[Manwell Pablo]

More players from the mid-90s continued to play into their late 30s than from any other era in the history of the game. Scholes, Phil Neville and Beckham were all still playing last season; Giggs this season. It suggests that the quality they had at the peaks of their careers was still massively effective in today's game, even when they were well past their best.

 

And, if we're talking of direct comparisons, you can't get much better than looking at how players who have played in both of the aforementioned eras have fared. I'm not really sure what other way there is of comparing 1995 with 2013.

 

Better fitness regimes that have been introduced into the game and better care for injuries means players will, on the whole play for longer as time goes on.

 

Whilst they may have still been playing this is no indication of difference in standard, all stood out more in the mid 90's than they do now. Giggs is a completely different player to what he used to be anyway. 

 

You'll notice a pattern in the players you mentioned, they all played for united. The biggest increase in standard has been at the clubs in mid table over the last 15 years. 

[inckley fox]

Totally disagree with this part.

 

 

There are paid a ridiculous amount of money for a job many of us would do for less than minimum wage. However, players these days cannot do anything without the attention of the press.

 

 

Would you like to wander around any public place with constant photographs being taken, autographs being asked for, or just people coming over for a chat over and over again. People talking and pointing at you, being aggressive towards you because of who you are, what you earn etc.

 

 

You would never live a normal life again.

 

SSL drives a Bentley.

Nothing against the bloke but an average championship defender driving a fvckin Bentley.

World's gone tits up if you ask me.

 

SSL has every right to drive a Bentley. But if it were a priority of his to reduce his public profile he might choose not to. He might also wish to consider not publishing every last thought of his on Twitter, complaining about a lack of football to the Press (as opposed to his manager), attending notorious footballers' haunts, hanging out with celebs and accompanying them to a string of celeb-packed events.

 

There are things you can do to maintain a more modest degree of notoriety. Just ask a local politician, copper, head teacher, TV personality, or anyone else known to thousands of people in the area they live.

[inckley fox]

Better fitness regimes that have been introduced into the game and better care for injuries means players will, on the whole play for longer as time goes on.

 

Whilst they may have still been playing this is no indication of difference in standard, all stood out more in the mid 90's than they do now. Giggs is a completely different player to what he used to be anyway. 

 

You'll notice a pattern in the players you mentioned, they all played for united. The biggest increase in standard has been at the clubs in mid table over the last 15 years. 

 

You say that players who were stars when they were young in 1995 continuing to be stars when they're 35+ in 2013 is 'no indication of difference in standard' - so what is? Where do you get the evidence for this claim that 'the biggest increase in standard has been at the clubs in mid table over the last 15 years'? It's certainly not because more of them rise up sporadically to challenge for the title, or win silverware. It's not because more players from the national team come from them. Do you honestly believe that Stoke City / West Brom / Norwich / West Ham sides of today are that much better than Leicester were in the late 90s? Or even the West Ham of the Redknapp era?

 

My point was simple. It's impossible to compare the two; but a decent indication comes from the fact that an unusually high number of players from 1995 went on to be very effective in the modern game long after their peak. Something which was less common (though not unheard of - see Gordon Strachan for instance) in the mid-90s. And yes, clearly 'they all stood out more in the 90s than they do now'. They were nearly twenty years younger. The fact that, long after normal retirement age and way past their best, they can still be so effective hardly suggests that the game has left them behind.

 

While it's true that all of these players play / played for Manchester United, there are other cases in point from less high profile clubs in the 1990-2000 time period. Damien Delaney made his Premier League debut for us in 2000 and just won promotion with Palace, Abdy Faye is still at Hull, Kevin Phillips is nearly 40, Shaun Derry, Heidar Helguson... they were never Manchester United players back in the 1990-2000 time period were they?

 

Like I said before, I'm not saying that the game is any worse now. I just think your claim that the standard is better is a very shaky one.

[inckley fox]

It's a comparison between two players Whitlow and Konchesky so not sure why you've bought those players or indeed his fee into it, I am unsure slightly odd. Whitlow was here in his prime, Konchesky, even if you ignore the fact that he has not aged well at all, was not. 

 

And that part wasn't even compairing Konchesky and Whitlow, it was making the point that he was for several years a very good player whos performances managed to earn him a move to a Champions League side. 

 

Anyway it wasn't an attempt at discrediting Mike Whitlow, it's more making the point the Konchesky was a lot better than he is now and compairing the two on performances in a Leicester shirt is slightly unfair.

 

I didn't bring those two into it, I was replying to your reply to a comparison of the two!

 

The fee is relevant because if a club that in a decade has rarely spent 1 million+ (Leicester) subsequently parts with a multi-million fee for a player (Konchesky) who just one season earlier had made the highest profile transfer of his career (to Liverpool), then it hardly suggests that the player in question is 'past it'. At 30, due to the improved training regimes you referred to in another thread, the modern footballer is quite often at his peak. Look at Claridge, Dickov, Deane, Elliott, Cottee, Ferdinand et al. We realistically expected three good years out of Konchesky and, at the time of signings, were within our rights in thinking that he should be at the very peak of his game and would be well above the standard required for this league for time to come.

 

So, while I completely take your point that you are not trying to 'discredit' Mike Whitlow, I'm afraid that Whitlow - a budget buy on a paltry wage who became involved in a highly successful Leicester side - would be quite within his rights to feel more affronted by the comparison than Konchesky - an expensive signing on an expensive wage who later went on to feature in a Leicester side that experienced no success whatsoever. In other words, an unfair comparison it may be - but I hardly think that a consideration of age, wage and fee makes it unfair on Paul Konchesky.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Transfer fees and ridiculously high earnings have managed to somewhat diminish the game in my opinion. Too many inflated egos around as well.

 

A major issue for me, is how players are coached to do a job and no more, Any natural talent tends to be stifled. Players like George Best, Jimmy Greaves, Dave Mackay were always allowed to display their talent, and to play their natural game. Maybe I am wrong, but that's my view.

[Mack]

Football is faster and more intense nowadays.

I don't think you can compare it from a Footballing perspective.

Socially modern Footballers are often arrogant, rich young men with an ego the size of the Empire State Building.

[Manwell Pablo]

You say that players who were stars when they were young in 1995 continuing to be stars when they're 35+ in 2013 is 'no indication of difference in standard' - so what is? Where do you get the evidence for this claim that 'the biggest increase in standard has been at the clubs in mid table over the last 15 years'? It's certainly not because more of them rise up sporadically to challenge for the title, or win silverware. It's not because more players from the national team come from them. Do you honestly believe that Stoke City / West Brom / Norwich / West Ham sides of today are that much better than Leicester were in the late 90s? Or even the West Ham of the Redknapp era?

 

My point was simple. It's impossible to compare the two; but a decent indication comes from the fact that an unusually high number of players from 1995 went on to be very effective in the modern game long after their peak. Something which was less common (though not unheard of - see Gordon Strachan for instance) in the mid-90s. And yes, clearly 'they all stood out more in the 90s than they do now'. They were nearly twenty years younger. The fact that, long after normal retirement age and way past their best, they can still be so effective hardly suggests that the game has left them behind.

 

While it's true that all of these players play / played for Manchester United, there are other cases in point from less high profile clubs in the 1990-2000 time period. Damien Delaney made his Premier League debut for us in 2000 and just won promotion with Palace, Abdy Faye is still at Hull, Kevin Phillips is nearly 40, Shaun Derry, Heidar Helguson... they were never Manchester United players back in the 1990-2000 time period were they?

 

Like I said before, I'm not saying that the game is any worse now. I just think your claim that the standard is better is a very shaky one.

 

Just far far far too long to argue with fully this time in the afternoon

 

But, you've just named three player who played second tier football last season and if that's the best you can do your proving the very point your trying to argue against. Yes they've just been promoted, but watch how much they play next year. And if they do, look at their league position.

 

And for the record I do think 3/4 of those four sides are certainly better than the side we had in 1997 at least, a long with the likes of Fulham,  Swansea, Sunderland, etc.

[Manwell Pablo]

I didn't bring those two into it, I was replying to your reply to a comparison of the two!

 

The fee is relevant because if a club that in a decade has rarely spent 1 million+ (Leicester) subsequently parts with a multi-million fee for a player (Konchesky) who just one season earlier had made the highest profile transfer of his career (to Liverpool), then it hardly suggests that the player in question is 'past it'. At 30, due to the improved training regimes you referred to in another thread, the modern footballer is quite often at his peak. Look at Claridge, Dickov, Deane, Elliott, Cottee, Ferdinand et al. We realistically expected three good years out of Konchesky and, at the time of signings, were within our rights in thinking that he should be at the very peak of his game and would be well above the standard required for this league for time to come.

 

So, while I completely take your point that you are not trying to 'discredit' Mike Whitlow, I'm afraid that Whitlow - a budget buy on a paltry wage who became involved in a highly successful Leicester side - would be quite within his rights to feel more affronted by the comparison than Konchesky - an expensive signing on an expensive wage who later went on to feature in a Leicester side that experienced no success whatsoever. In other words, an unfair comparison it may be - but I hardly think that a consideration of age, wage and fee makes it unfair on Paul Konchesky.

 

They you go again, why are you doing that? . You're comparing players whose primary attributes were intelligence and strength to a energetic full back. They are completely different.

 

I realistically didn't expect anything from Konchesky other than to get a decent Championship full back as, as he had already been out on loan at Forest and I had seen him play, it was quite clear his legs weren't quite what they were and he wasn't quite as good as he used to be, otherwise, we'd of payed alot more than we did. The Poultry wage and fee for Whitlow was a sign of the differing times, and if your comparing the talent of the two players, shouldn't enter into it. 

 

You can try and dress it up anyway you want, in his prime, Konchesky was a better player than Whitlow. Granted, Whitlow was probably a better player for us. 

[Mike Oxlong]

SSL has every right to drive a Bentley. But if it were a priority of his to reduce his public profile he might choose not to. He might also wish to consider not publishing every last thought of his on Twitter, complaining about a lack of football to the Press (as opposed to his manager), attending notorious footballers' haunts, hanging out with celebs and accompanying them to a string of celeb-packed events.

There are things you can do to maintain a more modest degree of notoriety. Just ask a local politician, copper, head teacher, TV personality, or anyone else known to thousands of people in the area they live.

Of course he does. Who can blame him for picking up what someone's willing to pay him but its the excessive rewards for mediocrity that I'm railing at ie the general culture as opposed to the individual.