Does schlupp deserve a chance?

[cityfanlee23]

Jeff Schlupp - head down, has no vision and awareness - no football brain - and you can't teach that.

 

on the plus side, has all the necessary physical attributes which is what got him a trial at Man U

Vardy was the same last season.. He's been untouchable this season appearances wise, and even though he was not as good last season he still got games...

 

Schlupp has more potential than most in our club...

 

Yes, you make a good point and it's one of the big reasons why the national game is in such a mess.

But it's deeper than that.

 

Southampton develop their players and it's been their saviour financially. Look where they are now - a lot higher than City and I can't see that changing for a while cos they've more coming through.

 

Why? Because if you get two quality youngsters coming through an Academy it begets even more until,  in the end and given the benefit of continuity and capable coaches, you get a club metaphorically full of good young players. The sort of young players Alan Hansen insisted "could never win a title" but did, and so many more honours.  

 

And who's putting player development ahead of getting results?   

 

How I ask you is Pearson going to win promotion if Nugent continues to play as he is doing at the moment? 

Or are you suggesting Schlupp or Vardy couldn't take penalties?

 

Or, given that I'd like the basically competent Nugent to hit his best form again, are you saying the prolific Gary Taylor Fetcher is the answer to our prayers the same as Howard or Horsfield was supposed to be in the past? 

 

Cos I know for sure where my faith would lie and I dont see why it should be at the expense of results.

 

Fans have never been fair. Any new signing is a star to begin with. Morgan's long been able to do no wrong however he plays cos he's a big whole-hearted beast. Even Zak Whitbread was proclaimed a good player by some yet I don't think I saw him play well once.  

 

The risk of using youngsters is over-stated especially ones like Schlupp who are relatively expeerienced, faster and stronger than some and more skillful than most.

 

Moore and Schlupp have a bad game and get dropped but we both know it would never happen with DeLaet, Morgan or Nugent for all that we've won nothing with any of them as yet.

 

So where does leave your argument about costing results? 

 

It's obvious to me that we need more from  our side. We need to regain our solidarity at the back and to score more goals from more places in the team because we're relying on too few and the pressure is telling on them.  

 

For all that he was partly at fault for their goal I thought we were defensively better against Burnley for having Moore back.

 

And I'm quite sure that having Schlupp in the right frame of mind would make us more dangerous up front because we really didn't create much in the way of genuine chances for all the huffing and puffing of the likes of Knockaert.

 

In fact I'd make this bold statement. Give Knockaert's role to Schlupp and there'd be more end product.

Knockaert's an entertainer and in a footballing circus I'm sure he'd be brilliant to watch.

 

But barring his magical moments, he's unreadable. No-one on his own side has any idea what he's going to do or whether or not they'll receive the ball.     

 

Schlupp's the opposite. He's still got stacks of speed and skill but he'll spot a pass, see a run, have a go himself and Knockaert doesn't do enough of that.   

   

Four goals and two assists isn't enough at this stage of the season for a free-roaming attacker like Knockaert and I honestly believe Schlupp would have more given the same opportunity as well as being an infinitely better defender and much stronger on the ball.   

 

Knockaert is a better bet off the bench when he can use his energy against tired legs. 

 

agree, very good post mate.

 

I think I must be one of the rare people that thinks Jeff Schlupp has BAGS of potential. He has all the attributes to be a top striker..... he's fast, he's strong and is a natural athlete.

Any striker finds it difficult to be introduced after 60/70 mins and have a big impact on a game. They arent usually tuned-in sufficiently and tend to snatch at chances.

Big Heskey was given faith and time by MON. He too was not a prolific finisher, scoring great goals but missing chances too in equal measure. But MON developed him so well that he became the focus of the attack and was used to great effect. Basically, his strengths were played to.

Im not saying that Schlupp is as good as Heskey, but the latter was given a real chance, whereas the former has only been given a bit part role.

Pearson needs to let Schlupp go if he's not going to play him enough. The boy is stagnating and would develop better in a side where he is a regular.

I have a feeling that Jeff is a confidence player and you can't improve your confidence when you are even further down the pecking order than a player like GTF who is well past his best.

I have a feeling that Schlupp may well be yet another player who moves on and shines at another club. I think he's better than most think or, at least has the potential to be.

 

Again, Agree, this is why I made the thread,

It baffles me how people are deeming that schlupp shouldnt start because he is inconsistent, Yet the same people are defending the most inconsistent players at the club!!

I am sure I do not need to mention a name.

 

Jeff has the best chances of being a top player for us in the future, but he needs a bloody good run, 10+ games.... IMO

[Dan]

With most here. I've got a lot of time for Thrac and what he says but I massively disagree regarding Knockaert. He's a class above this league and I fear one day we'll learn that the hard way.

[Dan]

What a ridiculous comment regarding Knockaert. There's no one else in this division like him. He's a fantastic player who is still learning. He's perhaps too much of a luxury away from home, but at home he's got to start every time. He makes things happen.

One of my favourite things about Knockaert is his attitude; even though he was having a stinker second half against Burnley, he never gave up. He still kept trying to take players on and create something. He's a real character.

 

Yep. I prefer him to Taarabt myself. I think Taarabt's capable of probably even more ridiculous things than Knockaert (although both have produced their fair share) but at least Knockaert seems to care.

[Dan]

Vardy was the same last season.. He's been untouchable this season appearances wise, and even though he was not as good last season he still got games...

 

Schlupp has more potential than most in our club...

 

 

agree, very good post mate.

 

 

Again, Agree, this is why I made the thread,

It baffles me how people are deeming that schlupp shouldnt start because he is inconsistent, Yet the same people are defending the most inconsistent players at the club!!

I am sure I do not need to mention a name.

 

Jeff has the best chances of being a top player for us in the future, but he needs a bloody good run, 10+ games.... IMO

 

Vardy no awareness?

 

It does make me laugh how people go on like Vardy was a non-footballer last year. For quality on the ball people have every right to criticise but he contributed a lot to the side just by what he did off the ball. It's no co-incidence we nosedived when we lost his closing down.

 

I'm not trying to be an advocate for this "if he can run around a bit he'll do" football because that'll only get you so far, but Vardy's always been a very clever mover. He's added a few goals and a better touch to his game this year but I don't think he was ever as terrible as made out and I was guilty of saying it before too. I admittedly thought there'd be no way back for him.

 

Schlupp really doesn't offer this.

 

I wouldn't be against loaning Schlupp out to someone like Barnsley or Yeovil - teams in this league who are of no threat to us, where he'll actually get in the side regularly, facing the same opposition we face. He'll develop more by playing in this league than he will by being loaned out to League One again.

 

Apologies for triple post.

[Happy Fox]

He is talented no doubt about it otherwise Manchester United wouldn't of taken him on trial, he needs a run in the side to really fulfill his potential.

[Dan]

This Man Utd thing needs to stop too. This is a bloke who spent £15mil on Zaha and £7mil on Bebe - and Schlupp didn't even get as far as those two. No doubting Fergie's ability as a manager but his signings in the past few years were very hit and miss IMO.

[cityfanlee23]

This Man Utd thing needs to stop too. This is a bloke who spent £15mil on Zaha and £7mil on Bebe - and Schlupp didn't even get as far as those two. No doubting Fergie's ability as a manager but his signings in the past few years were very hit and miss IMO.

 

I understand that, 

but at the end of the day, united dont just take any youngster on trial for the sake of it, Especially when they have a club..

 

Then extend his trial?

[indierich06]

I understand that, 

but at the end of the day, united dont just take any youngster on trial for the sake of it, Especially when they have a club..

 

Then extend his trial?

 

But ultimately, they decided he wasn't good enough. Didn't even put a bid in. Doesn't say much about his potential really, does it? Yeah, he might be good enough to play for us regularly one day, but not much more than that by the sounds of things.

[Dan]

I understand that, 

but at the end of the day, united dont just take any youngster on trial for the sake of it, Especially when they have a club..

 

Then extend his trial?

 

But it was a trial. Leicester have trialists in every youth game. It really does mean so little.

[chuck'em]

But ultimately, they decided he wasn't good enough. Didn't even put a bid in. Doesn't say much about his potential really, does it? Yeah, he might be good enough to play for us regularly one day, but not much more than that by the sounds of things.

As much as we would like it to be otherwise, the difference between not good enough for Man Utd and potentially good enough for us is massive. If he was only good enough for a team like West Brom he is still very good for us but United wouldn't keep him on

[dmayne7]

How can people say he doesn't deserve a chance? He's a forward and he's never really been given a proper run in that position. It must be pretty difficult not knowing whether you're playing in the next game let alone having to chance position every time you get a chance. He definitely deserves a chance. Should we give it to him? Probably not at the moment; Wood and Waghorn should have a shot before him.

 

Sadly, I think its a case of another player with a lot of talent, being wasted by our club. People are perhaps a bit quick to write him off but there's no denying that he has been massively underwhelming. Shame because I think that if he'd spent 3 years playing up top consistently this thread wouldn't exist, either because he moved on to bigger things or we'd be desperate to keep hold of him.

[Sharpe's Fox]

He looks best as a left sided attacking player and why on earth would anyone drop Lloyd to put this kid in. Lloyd will probably get injured at some point though and he will start, just be patient.

 

Yet another case of a player who isn't starting suddenly becoming the answer to all our problems. Remember Futacs last year? Danns? Be careful what you wish for people.

[dmayne7]

This is a rare thread were pretty much everybody is making a valid point!

 

Got to say though, those suggesting he doesn't have a footballing brain are not with it. You can't jump from LB, to ST, then to the wing without a very good footballing brain. I've said it before but Jeff's limitations up front are that he's too unselfish and that's probably born out of his lack of confidence. He's very good at keeping things tidy and bringing others into play but he's best when he gets at defenders and sadly, we haven't really seen that for a long time.

[dmayne7]

He looks best as a left sided attacking player and why on earth would anyone drop Lloyd to put this kid in. Lloyd will probably get injured at some point though and he will start, just be patient.

 

Yet another case of a player who isn't starting suddenly becoming the answer to all our problems. Remember Futacs last year? Danns? Be careful what you wish for people.

 

Well its not the same is it? Most people who are for giving him a chance are suggesting that he has the potential to be a very good player and I think that's a fair point. Not many people saying that he is going to come in and drastically improve our team. He is not the answer now but he does give us another decent option.

[cityfanlee23]

Well its not the same is it? Most people who are for giving him a chance are suggesting that he has the potential to be a very good player and I think that's a fair point. Not many people saying that he is going to come in and drastically improve our team. He is not the answer now but he does give us another decent option.

 

and He is not likely to be without a chance!

 

viscous circle.

 

Give him a run, He cannot be anymore hot/cold than what we have atm, He looked comfortable on his spell sat.

He seems to breed on confidence, when we play well, he looks really handy, when we are 2-0 down he doesnt add alot, but how can he change anything at either left back, or in 5 mins here and there.

 

I'd love to see him given a chance tonight tbh.

Get him out there and just say "take em on son"

We will need pace and strength tonight, because we certainly wont beat them on skill, footballing knowledge. they will be 3 steps ahead.

[MC Prussian]

I'm still baffled why he's hardly ever being played in midfield.

He's not (yet) physical enough to be a proper left-back (unless he stacks up like Evra did when Deschamps forced him to play LB at Monaco) and he's not a born finisher.

 

Schlupp's got the classic attributes for a left midfielder or a left winger (although he somewhat lacks the cutting edge in the finishing department for that role).

 

The bad thing is, the way Pearson sets his teams out, he'll never really feature due to the formation we're using.

 

Lloyd Dyer's been great so far, not just because of his work ethic. But it makes you wonder why Pearson doesn't consider using Schlupp at LM/LW when Dyer's run out of steam (or vice versa).

[cityfanlee23]

I'm still baffled why he's hardly ever being played in midfield.

He's not (yet) physical enough to be a proper left-back (unless he stacks up like Evra did when Deschamps forced him to play LB at Monaco) and he's not a born finisher.

 

Schlupp's got the classic attributes for a left midfielder or a left winger (although he somewhat lacks the cutting edge in the finishing department for that role).

 

The bad thing is, the way Pearson sets his teams out, he'll never really feature due to the formation we're using.

 

Lloyd Dyer's been great so far, not just because of his work ethic. But it makes you wonder why Pearson doesn't consider using Schlupp at LM/LW when Dyer's run out of steam (or vice versa).

 

Lloyd.....

[deep blue]

SteveW5.

 

Your comment re Schlupp's passing is nonsense.  His ability to unload quickly is testament to his recognition that quick, accurate passing is exactly what's needed to convert defence into attack, to start off counter-attacks at a speed which unlocks the opposition's defence.  By contrast, Konch often dithers on the ball, frequently losing it by being closed down or giving it away with a bad pass.

 

Schlupp has moments of bad positioning in defence, but how often does Konch leave himself stranded upfield?  Schlupp adds more than enough to the attack from left back to more than compensate for his defensive deficiences, and given a few more games this aspect of his game would improve.

[Manwell Pablo]

He could play a number of roles well but needs the chance and encouragement to learn them. That, to me,  is what coaching's about. It's not just about organising interesting training sessions but seeing what's good and bad in people, bringing out the strengths and improving the weaknesses.

 

The biggest quality a coach can have is understanding the requirements of a job and the personalities of the people trying to do it. The second is to have the players trusting him and believing implicitly in what he is trying to tell them. The third is to have the rhetorical skills to make players believe they can fly.

 

Bill Shankly was the best I ever spoke with, just 100 per cent inspiring. I suspect Brian Clough could be the same. 

And that's what the likes of Schlupp needs - someone he can believe in and, more important, who demonstrates a belief in him.

 

On the surface, Schlupp's best position is central midfield where he his strength, skills, athleticism and speed of thought can be most regularly utilised.

 

Yet those qualities can be adapted easily enough by a wise man - but not without proper guidance and the time to build the confidence of experience and familiarity.

 

And there's one of our eternal failings. We don't offer time and patience. Players don't even take a short time out and then return noticably improved...as they forever do at places like Manchester United.

 

No, if Morgan or Nugent has an iffy game it's overlooked along with the next one and the one after that. If Moore or Schlupp falter they're out in no time and their confidence is likely to be shattered.

 

To me a coach should be ashamed if he feels he has to drop a young player he's watched for years and has seen to be "good enough" before he's had chance to settle into a side. Instead he should expect to see faults and know exactly what can be done to rectify them.         

 

If after six weeks or so the problems persist or need be specifically improved then take the player out, but with the spoken understanding that he will be back and he will succeed in the end.

 

Failure is a reflection of the manager/coach as much as the player and the sooner they take responsibility for that, the better.

 

It's not about "another chance". He's a potentially excellent player and we should set about proving it,

 

 

Yes but we all know where youngsters you view as "excellent" end up, Oadby Town.

[Manwell Pablo]

I'm still baffled why he's hardly ever being played in midfield.

He's not (yet) physical enough to be a proper left-back (unless he stacks up like Evra did when Deschamps forced him to play LB at Monaco) and he's not a born finisher.

 

Schlupp's got the classic attributes for a left midfielder or a left winger (although he somewhat lacks the cutting edge in the finishing department for that role).

 

The bad thing is, the way Pearson sets his teams out, he'll never really feature due to the formation we're using.

 

Lloyd Dyer's been great so far, not just because of his work ethic. But it makes you wonder why Pearson doesn't consider using Schlupp at LM/LW when Dyer's run out of steam (or vice versa).

 

 

I've seen him play Left Back a few times and he's been shite every time, I appreciate he's apparently had a few good games there, but I saw him once (think it was Watford)  I know people say "I could have played better than him" in jest but in all seriousness for the first 45 minutes at least, I could have actually done better than him and I'm right footed. Slicing things, losing his man shinning things and having a complete inability to find feet before missing a clearance and putting them through on goal, I think he did something like that twice. He was absolutely dreadful.

[Thracian]

Yes but we all know where youngsters you view as "excellent" end up, Oadby Town.

 

 

Ummmmmm - I don't think that had a lot to do with football.      

[cityfanlee23]

Will anybody change their mind now?

 

I thought he looked okay, Couldnt do much he was isolated as was our whole attack bar dyer

[theessexfox]

Gotta be at least third choice with Wood out. 

[cityfanlee23]

Gotta be at least third choice with Wood out. 

 

He done more in his small cameo than nugent and vardy combined I thought

[Hitesh]

A lot better than Nugent tonight. What I saw tonight is that he needs a different type of ball played to him, when he out run Lescott it was a great through ball and he showed his strength and pace. Hes definitely something different and offers us something else. Felt him and Vardy tried a lot better than Nugent/GTF and I think that let us down in the first half today.