Romania immigrant's

[BoneDog]

I'm not a racist. I own a Wham cd (whites), a Gladys Knight & The Pips cd (blacks), a Trailer Park Boys dvd (gypsies), Spike Milligan's war memoirs (jewish) and the Winners and Sinners dubbed dvd (Asian). Multi-racial/religious.

 

But I'm not too keen on all this forced immigration malarkey, especially because of the present overall mess we're in to do with jobs, housing, NHS and whatnot. No offence.

[Frost]

Hugo I wouldn't even bother man, you'll only get the racist card pointed at you. Apparently we can't say anything that's remotely linked to skin colour, yet it's ok for people to single out disabled people (the amount of times I read 'disabled' on here. It's a disgrace), overweight people and people who are ginger.

 

Yes, of course, you're right. Lets continue making generalisations about Eastern Europeans. Chip in yourself if you fancy it.

[Strokes]

Yes, of course, you're right. Lets continue making generalisations about Eastern Europeans. Chip in yourself if you fancy it.

Its hard not to make generalisation comments and yet comment on their forthcoming arrival, unless you know them all personally? If we want an open debate on the subject its best not to take offence on behalf of people you have never met.

[Alf Bentley]

Imagine alllllllllllll the peopleeeeeeeeeee - living, well, among their own kind like...

 

Extraordinary news from scientists. They dug up John Lennon's brain, attached a few microchips and wires to see if he had a message for the modern generation - and were astonished when he dictated a new version of "Imagine" for the year 2013.....

 

"Imagine there were no immigrants,

No Slovak and no Pole,

No Bulgarians living next-door,

No Romanians on the dole.

Imagine all the white Brits,

Living on their own"

 

"Imagine thousands of countries,

with borders inbetween,

Maintaining their racial purity,

A kaleidoscope of spleen,

Imagine all the people

Suspecting everyone"

 

"You may say I'm a xenophobe

But I'm not the only one,

I hope someday you'll join UKIP,

and all the gyppos will be gone"

 

"Imagine no Chinkies,

Just baked beans from a can,

No curry houses either,

A cuisine based on spam,

Imagine all the curtains

Twitching in the breeze"

 

You may say I'm a bigot,

But I'm not the only one,

I hope someday they'll be on the banana boat

And Britain will be British again!"

 

(Fade out to chorus of "Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves", "No surrender to the IRA" etc.)

[SMX11]

yet the controlled immigration from outside the EEA made a "negative fiscal contribution" and those immigrants within the EU/EEA had a positive one.  And those non EEA immigrants have had more children therefore having less burden on housing and schools.

 

I am bit sceptical of statistics at the best of times (do you have a link ?), however I am still against 'open' immigration on the principle that you have next to no say of who can come (EU) and to save face discriminate against non EU workers because they want to minimise net migration. It makes more sense to me to have a work permit system where you can have a more control on what areas of the workforce need immigrants and not get an oversupply in low paid work. I feel reducing the youth unemployment levels is much more important for this country in the long term than having a immigrant worker coming over for a couple of years and returning.

[ADK]

I still cannot quote.

 

Anyway I am not convinced Polish people have made a "positive economic impact". Do the studies compensate for the amount of British born people who are out of work as a result of this immigration? Does it compensate for the fact money is sent home to Poland?

 

Does it compensate for the effect on infrastructure?

[Dr The Singh]

Extraordinary news from scientists. They dug up John Lennon's brain, attached a few microchips and wires to see if he had a message for the modern generation - and were astonished when he dictated a new version of "Imagine" for the year 2013.....

 

"Imagine there were no immigrants,

No Slovak and no Pole,

No Bulgarians living next-door,

No Romanians on the dole.

Imagine all the white Brits,

Living on their own"

 

"Imagine thousands of countries,

with borders inbetween,

Maintaining their racial purity,

A kaleidoscope of spleen,

Imagine all the people

Suspecting everyone"

 

"You may say I'm a xenophobe

But I'm not the only one,

I hope someday you'll join UKIP,

and all the gyppos will be gone"

 

"Imagine no Chinkies,

Just baked beans from a can,

No curry houses either,

A cuisine based on spam,

Imagine all the curtains

Twitching in the breeze"

 

You may say I'm a bigot,

But I'm not the only one,

I hope someday they'll be on the banana boat

And Britain will be British again!"

 

(Fade out to chorus of "Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves", "No surrender to the IRA" etc.)

Great tune, loved it!!!

[ADK]

Also I don't agree with encouraging xenophobic attitudes

 

a) It is unethical and unpleasant

 

b) An economic argument is much more logical and sensible

 

c) Skilled immigration should always be welcomed

[Zingari]

Also I don't agree with encouraging xenophobic attitudes

 

a) It is unethical and unpleasant

 

b) An economic argument is much more logical and sensible

 

c) Skilled immigration should always be welcomed

maybe the Romanians can teach the Brits how to be better at living rough on the streets and up the standard of begging skills

[Fox92]

They can't dig up his brain, he wasn't buried.

[Strokes]

Extraordinary news from scientists. They dug up John Lennon's brain, attached a few microchips and wires to see if he had a message for the modern generation - and were astonished when he dictated a new version of "Imagine" for the year 2013.....

"Imagine there were no immigrants,

No Slovak and no Pole,

No Bulgarians living next-door,

No Romanians on the dole.

Imagine all the white Brits,

Living on their own"

"Imagine thousands of countries,

with borders inbetween,

Maintaining their racial purity,

A kaleidoscope of spleen,

Imagine all the people

Suspecting everyone"

"You may say I'm a xenophobe

But I'm not the only one,

I hope someday you'll join UKIP,

and all the gyppos will be gone"

"Imagine no Chinkies,

Just baked beans from a can,

No curry houses either,

A cuisine based on spam,

Imagine all the curtains

Twitching in the breeze"

You may say I'm a bigot,

But I'm not the only one,

I hope someday they'll be on the banana boat

And Britain will be British again!"

(Fade out to chorus of "Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves", "No surrender to the IRA" etc.)

, very good.

[Strokes]

maybe the Romanians can teach the Brits how to be better at living rough on the streets and up the standard of begging skills

Take by force is the new begging.

[Zingari]

Take by force is the new begging.

we've embraced the hard sell , why not the hard beg?

[Captain...]

Extraordinary news from scientists. They dug up John Lennon's brain, attached a few microchips and wires to see if he had a message for the modern generation - and were astonished when he dictated a new version of "Imagine" for the year 2013.....

 

"Imagine there were no immigrants,

No Slovak and no Pole,

No Bulgarians living next-door,

No Romanians on the dole.

Imagine all the white Brits,

Living on their own"

 

"Imagine thousands of countries,

with borders inbetween,

Maintaining their racial purity,

A kaleidoscope of spleen,

Imagine all the people

Suspecting everyone"

 

"You may say I'm a xenophobe

But I'm not the only one,

I hope someday you'll join UKIP,

and all the gyppos will be gone"

 

"Imagine no Chinkies,

Just baked beans from a can,

No curry houses either,

A cuisine based on spam,

Imagine all the curtains

Twitching in the breeze"

 

You may say I'm a bigot,

But I'm not the only one,

I hope someday they'll be on the banana boat

And Britain will be British again!"

 

(Fade out to chorus of "Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves", "No surrender to the IRA" etc.)

 

Brilliant your own work?

[Zingari]

Ken's time as resident FT Poet Laureate may be coming to an end 

[Rincewind]

Ken's time as resident FT Poet Laureate may be coming to an end 

I know. I may as well concede defeat and give him a plus.

[BoneDog]

You progressives need to wake up and smell the cultural subversion.

[Jon the Hat]

Sadly in tough times like these there is always a scapegoat for politicians and the media to use. If its not the unemployed then its imigrants. We can go along with it or stop and think.

And your conclusions from your thinking are what??

[Guest MattP]

Take a bow Sir Alf, top notch. A new bard of the board is found.

Sadly in tough times like these there is always a scapegoat for politicians and the media to use. If its not the unemployed then its imigrants. We  can go along with it or stop and think.

That makes no sense.

 

Why would a politician who has a part that has been ripped apart over a Euroscep...in fact, forget it. It's not like I'll get a reply.

 

How did the influx of Polish migrants affect our economy? There were plenty of doom mongering stories about opening our borders to Poland and other Eastern European countries, but in the end the numbers predicted didn't come close to happening and those that did come gave a lot more than they took out and boosted our economy.

 

This is why I don't agree with the extreme predictions of the result of opening our borders to Romanians and Bulgarians, they will not come flocking here, there are already many skilled Romanians and Bulgarians in the UK, those that really wanted to come probably already have. This is not to say there won't be any problems, but the magnitude is being greatly exagerrated by the media, again.

 

How can someone so knowledgeable come out with that, you baffle me at times CPF.

 

Labour predicted 13,000 would arrive, it ended up being 1.3million odd. No surprise they were so far out given how out of touch that government was, but no need to try and wipe it from history in your own mind just because you are pro immigration.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10445585/Labour-made-a-spectacular-mistake-on-immigration-admits-Jack-Straw.html

The last Labour government predicted that only 13,000 would move to Britain from Poland and other eastern European countries after 2004.

However, more than one million arrived in one of the biggest waves of immigration seen in this country.

 

I still chuckle to myself that the man in charge of border control under Labour was literally blind.

[Rincewind]

And your conclusions from your thinking are what??

My conclusions are that there will always be scapegoats

 

Just in case my words are misinterpretted.

 

Scapegoats = groups of people ie. Pre war Jews

Blame =  individuals. who are responsible for their own actions in the right circumstances.

[Parafox]

I live in Wiltshire and grew up living opposite an old Polish couple. They were awesome, she gave me cake and he wore a beret.

 

Are you sure they weren't characters from 'Allo 'Allo?

[Guest MattP]

Isn't it rather peculiar the change on situations people have over time?

 

Generally those who argue the pros of open border EU immigration point to main reason being how financially beneficial to the country it is and if British workers have to sit on the dole because of it then so be it and they should work harder to aquire another skill to do a different job.

 

Nothing wrong with that of course, the irony being a lot of these people still seem to hate Thatcher for doing exactly what they think is right now, shut down an industry that isn't financially beneficial to the country.and if it costs British workers jobs then they can learn something else and find something while we pay a foreigner to do it cheaper.

 

Maybe we could have avoided the whole situation had we instead of shutting the mines import labour so cheap from poor countries we could have them working for a pittance that would have left enough money after selling the coal to pay the miners to sit on the dole and still make a profit afterwards for the companies.

 

If only immigration had been PC back then we probably would have a solution that suited everybody. (except the British low paid workers again of course)

[Strokes]

Isn't it rather peculiar the change on situations people have over time?

Generally those who argue the pros of open border EU immigration point to main reason being how financially beneficial to the country it is and if British workers have to sit on the dole because of it then so be it and they should work harder to aquire another skill to do a different job.

Nothing wrong with that of course, the irony being a lot of these people still seem to hate Thatcher for doing exactly what they think is right now, shut down an industry that isn't financially beneficial to the country.and if it costs British workers jobs then they can learn something else and find something while we pay a foreigner to do it cheaper.

Maybe we could have avoided the whole situation had we instead of shutting the mines import labour so cheap from poor countries we could have them working for a pittance that would have left enough money after selling the coal to pay the miners to sit on the dole and still make a profit afterwards for the companies.

If only immigration had been PC back then we probably would have a solution that suited everybody. (except the British low paid workers again of course)

Amazing isn't it, it affects the very people they spend their lives defending most. I don't oppose immigration, I just want it to be controlled. For me first generation immigrants should pay a little surplus tax, so they can be entitled to the benefits of the infastructure we all have paid to put in place.

[Dr The Singh]

People need to got o east london, at every corner there are roma gypsies forcing car drivers to pay for cleaning windscreen without asking.  I was there last weekend, and reports of old people viagrants etc being robbed et are rife.

 

Controlled immigraion is the key\11

[Captain...]

Take a bow Sir Alf, top notch. A new bard of the board is found.

That makes no sense.

 

Why would a politician who has a part that has been ripped apart over a Euroscep...in fact, forget it. It's not like I'll get a reply.

 

 

How can someone so knowledgeable come out with that, you baffle me at times CPF.

 

Labour predicted 13,000 would arrive, it ended up being 1.3million odd. No surprise they were so far out given how out of touch that government was, but no need to try and wipe it from history in your own mind just because you are pro immigration.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10445585/Labour-made-a-spectacular-mistake-on-immigration-admits-Jack-Straw.html

 

I still chuckle to myself that the man in charge of border control under Labour was literally blind.

 

I was referring to the media predictions being a massive over-estimation, like they are massively over-estimating the consequences right now, in my opinion.

 

Labour got their estimate wrong, Cameron is avoiding making the same mistake by just not making a prediction.

 

I have no problem with their being tougher immigration restrictions if it is for the right reason and not a personal vendetta with the EU, but I really don't think the opening of the borders to Romania and Bulgaria is going to have any sort of impact, we are not as desirable a place to come as we were in 2004, when we were 1 of 3 countries to open our borders. Now all of Europe is opening their borders to Bulgaria and Romania, and Romanians in articular have a much closer tie to latin countries like Spain and Italy and are more likely to go there. There is a problem in Spain with Romanian gypsy gangs, which nobody wants here, but that happened when they had border control and hopefully we are going to be aware of this and make provisions to ensure that this doesn't happen here.

 

I don't think that it will affect the job market and wages, partly because not that many will come, but of those that do as long as companies don't exploit immigrants willing to work for less than minimum wage. Similar to the impact on social services you can find as much evidence to say that they are a drain as that says they are a net contributor, the reason why this is such a debate is because there is so much mis-information flying around from both sides, that nobody really knows the truth.

 

I think in the end it comes down to personal experiences, I have never had any problems with immigrants, and a number of positive experiences, I don't know anyone who has lost their job due to immigration or had their wages reduced. I'm not naive enough to believe there have been no problems, but I do think they are grossly exaggerated by the press, and the number of immigrants that have been a benefit to this country vastly outnumbers those that have been a drain. I see no reason why it would be any different in January with Bulgaria and Romania.