Romania immigrant's

[ADK]

I suppose some people may simply dislike foreigners. But we shouldn't allow open immigration at our economic expense just to prove we are liberal.

[Rincewind]

The problem is if we restrict imigration too much, the more qualified of them will settle in other countries. Germany takes in quite a few which is one of the first stops.  If we take the unskilled low paid labour it will mean more benefits and cuts to services for those at the middle to bottom of the social ladder.  More middle income families are already being drawn into hardship because of wages not keeping up with prices over the last few years.

[Fox92]

Oh course John Lennon is revered for his political views beyond his music and his early death. That's was one of the reasons posters with quotes from imagine grace the walls of student common rooms, not because they're "catchy lyrics" but because of his principles of peace. Had McCartney been taken from us early, I don't think we'd see similar posters with quotes from The Frog Song.

Yeah no one remembers him for things like this:

or go to the effort to make films about his views on songwriting....

He wrote about politics, big wow. That's what music should be about, at least it gives something. David Cameron quoted the Smiths in parliaments, Morrissey is a songwriter that writes about politics. Many politicians say there favourite Paul Weller song is 'Eton Rifles', yet do they know what it's about? I still think Dylan remains the most influential in terms of political music, see 'Times Are A Changing' as an example.

Half of the people that like 'Imagine' couldn't even name another song. I don't take them too serious. The song itself isn't his best either in my opinion, when you consider 'Watching The Wheels' and especially 'Jealous Guy'... Lennon wrote a handful of political songs, but I always thought that's what musical about. Raising consciousness and meaning something.

Of course people remember him for that bed in. It's covered constantly. There were programs about him last week because it was the 8th, and all the programs covered the bed in extensively. I don't know what you want people to remember. It's simple, the real deep Lennon fans know all this, it's nothing new, I'm quite well read about Lennon myself because I read about him.

It's no wonder artists say they deliberately write songs that don't have a lyrical meaning. Lennon did it with 'I Am The Walrus' because people were reading into lyrics, and Dylan admitted he did it as well.

Can this finish now? I'm often told I bring my musician taste into threads, but I never do. I just quote people that bloody start it.

[Dan]

I suppose some people may simply dislike foreigners. But we shouldn't allow open immigration at our economic expense just to prove we are liberal.

 

Pretty much this and I say this with little/no knowledge on Romanians. If we can't handle any more immigrants then we can't handle any more immigrants.

[bovril]

And we shouldn't denigrate people just to prove we're tough on immigration.

[lavrentis]

Pretty obvious the only solution really is to leave the EU.

[Strokes]

And we shouldn't denigrate people just to prove we're tough on immigration.

Why not?

[Harry - LCFC]

Why not?

 

Because you're serving no purpose by doing so. Consistently talking negatively about the effects of immigration without taking action will only marginalise the immigrant population and thus hinders integration.

[Voll Blau]

Pretty obvious the only solution really is to leave the EU.

 

Or set ourselves adrift like the kids' TV show Noah's Island. Yeah, those are the only two sensible options.

[bovril]

If you haven't experienced it yourself then maybe you don't know how unpleasant it is. I have Romanian friends who have lived and worked in England for years and they have to read stories every day about how they're potential criminals or scroungers. I don't see anybody else getting it, I can't imagine press and polticians being so overtly hostile towards black or asian immigrants.

[lavrentis]

Or set ourselves adrift like the kids' TV show Noah's Island. Yeah, those are the only two sensible options.

 

Because leaving the EU means we will cut all ties with everyone!

[Strokes]

Because you're serving no purpose by doing so. Consistently talking negatively about the effects of immigration without taking action will only marginalise the immigrant population and thus hinders integration.

Can't we take action and denigrate?

Some of the arguments for allowing a mass influx of unskilled people, that is potentially damaging to our current unskilled jobseekers. These are people that require our support, sympathy and protection, is beyond belief. If the odd smear has to be told to help these then I'm all for it.

This country doesn't need romanians, they might be better off here, but at the detriment to our already hard pushed struggling families and apparently I'm the nasty Tory.

[Rincewind]

If you haven't experienced it yourself then maybe you don't know how unpleasant it is. I have Romanian friends who have lived and worked in England for years and they have to read stories every day about how they're potential criminals or scroungers. I don't see anybody else getting it, I can't imagine press and polticians being so overtly hostile towards black or asian immigrants.

Sadly in tough times like these there is always a scapegoat for politicians and the media to use. If its not the unemployed then its imigrants. We  can go along with it or stop and think.

[Harry - LCFC]

Can't we take action and denigrate?

Some of the arguments for allowing a mass influx of unskilled people, that is potentially damaging to our current unskilled jobseekers. These are people that require our support, sympathy and protection, is beyond belief. If the odd smear has to be told to help these then I'm all for it.

This country doesn't need romanians, they might be better off here, but at the detriment to our already hard pushed struggling families and apparently I'm the nasty Tory.

 

I really can't see any reason why blaming the immigrants for the circumstances of the poor helps anyone. People are no more likely to get a job if they have someone to blame, society will be no more content if you nurture the idea that we are separated into different groups.

 

Stop the labour market being flooded, yes, but don't kick up a smear campaign that helps no-one at all.

[Strokes]

Stop the labour market being flooded, yes, but don't kick up a smear campaign that helps no-one at all.

Most of the smears have an element of truth, some even more. The truth is we haven't got a clue what exactly (or how many) we are allowing in, and I would rarther they're be applications on an individual basis than just drop the boarders.

If you think the most important thing about the whole debacle is protecting the image of people not even here yet, then you are very foolish.

[Finnegan]

Just to clarify, Lav, your family are Greek or Cypriot immigrants? Or did I completely misunderstand that?

[Captain...]

I suppose some people may simply dislike foreigners. But we shouldn't allow open immigration at our economic expense just to prove we are liberal.

 

How did the influx of Polish migrants affect our economy? There were plenty of doom mongering stories about opening our borders to Poland and other Eastern European countries, but in the end the numbers predicted didn't come close to happening and those that did come gave a lot more than they took out and boosted our economy.

 

This is why I don't agree with the extreme predictions of the result of opening our borders to Romanians and Bulgarians, they will not come flocking here, there are already many skilled Romanians and Bulgarians in the UK, those that really wanted to come probably already have. This is not to say there won't be any problems, but the magnitude is being greatly exagerrated by the media, again.

[Strokes]

How did the influx of Polish migrants affect our economy? There were plenty of doom mongering stories about opening our borders to Poland and other Eastern European countries, but in the end the numbers predicted didn't come close to happening and those that did come gave a lot more than they took out and boosted our economy.

This is why I don't agree with the extreme predictions of the result of opening our borders to Romanians and Bulgarians, they will not come flocking here, there are already many skilled Romanians and Bulgarians in the UK, those that really wanted to come probably already have. This is not to say there won't be any problems, but the magnitude is being greatly exagerrated by the media, again.

The polish may have boosted our economy, they have also increased competition for unskilled and skilled labour driving down the wages of most, especially the unskilled. I thought you supported the living wage, is there any of that cake left?

[Harry - LCFC]

Most of the smears have an element of truth, some even more. The truth is we haven't got a clue what exactly (or how many) we are allowing in, and I would rarther they're be applications on an individual basis that just drop the boarders.

If you think the most important thing about the whole debacle is protecting the image of people not even here yet, then you are very foolish.

 

And again I repeat that you achieve nothing by smearing. Worsening British-migrant relations with indiscriminate attacks on immigrants as a whole strikes me as a very bad idea.

 

Actually take action against immigration and try to solve people's problems or don't bother turning up. The solution you suggested is one I agree with for example - sieving out the 'right' people from the 'wrong' is what we've failed to do so far.

[Webbo]

How did the influx of Polish migrants affect our economy? There were plenty of doom mongering stories about opening our borders to Poland and other Eastern European countries, but in the end the numbers predicted didn't come close to happening and those that did come gave a lot more than they took out and boosted our economy.

 

The official prediction when the accession countries(not just Poland) were allowed in was around 13,000 a year the eventual total was nearer 3 million.

 

It might have boosted the economy for some but not for the people who lost their jobs to cheaper foreign labour or had their wages forced down for fear of losing their job. It didn't help the schools when hundreds of thousands of extra kids arrived and there were no places to put them. It didn't do anything to help the housing shortage. For any short term economic boost it might of created it caused just as many problems.

[SMX11]

Why can't we have a immigration system where we only bring in people in areas we desperately need expertise and/or numbers and do not discriminate against people for where they currently live?

 

Oh yeah we're in the EU so we can't  

[purpleronnie]

Why can't we have a immigration system where we only bring in people in areas we desperately need expertise and/or numbers and do not discriminate against people for where they currently live?

 

Oh yeah we're in the EU so we can't

yet the controlled immigration from outside the EEA made a "negative fiscal contribution" and those immigrants within the EU/EEA had a positive one.  And those non EEA immigrants have had more children therefore having less burden on housing and schools.

[Strokes]

And again I repeat that you achieve nothing by smearing. Worsening British-migrant relations with indiscriminate attacks on immigrants as a whole strikes me as a very bad idea.

Actually take action against immigration and try to solve people's problems or don't bother turning up. The solution you suggested is one I agree with for example - sieving out the 'right' people from the 'wrong' is what we've failed to do so far.

If smearing or generalizing brings the real problems to the surface, then I have no issue from it. Unless its dramatised, nobody deems to take note at all. It seems that for the first time in over a decade, we are able to oppose immigration without being branded racist. I think that's down to people from a left persuasion actually being affected by the last influx.

Please don't feel the need to repeat again that you disagree with the need for smearing, I understand your point, I just disagree with it ever so slightly. I'm glad we agree on the important issue of a controlled border though.

[Strokes]

yet the controlled immigration from outside the EEA made a "negative fiscal contribution" and those immigrants within the EU/EEA had a positive one. And those non EEA immigrants have had more children therefore having less burden on housing and schools.

Do the eu have no say on our immigration policy of non eu citizens then?

[rico]

i think 1 in 1 out would be the best policy