Ched Evans.

[GaelicFox]

2 minutes ago, MrSpaM said:

He's going to end up with a massive pay off for this

He won't 

[notnow john]

19 minutes ago, MPH said:

I re

 

 

It doesn't help when there are perceived miscarriages of justice either...

 

 

I mean, OJ Simpson was found not guilty  Many believe that was because he could afford a good lawyer. Was Evans found not guilty because he could afford a good lawyer? Would someone who couldn't afford a good lawyer be found guilty?

 

 

 

It's just not cut and dry for me. I think to be found guilty you need to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a crime has been committed. so knowing a crime has been committed and proving it can be very a different ball game. especially in this case where very little communication went on between the two people involved.  So, to me, PERSONALLY, being found not guilty is a little bit different to being completely innocent.

 

 

Either way, there's no winners here at all.

Apart from the legal leeches, trial, appeal,re-trial. Happy days

[Guest ttfn]

I'm finding the Guardian's coverage of this quite distasteful.

 

Firstly the main article is predominantly about how women's groups fear the verdict (and way it was reached) will stop real victims coming forward. Whilst this is clearly a big concern, it is a secondary issue here in what is a news story about a man who spent 2 years in prison for a crime the law says he didn't commit. The time to talk about secondary issues is surely once the dust has settled; I'd have thought that the main issue here is a pretty severe miscarriage of justice.

 

Secondly the supporting piece is entitled "The rich footballer and the waitress living at home". What on earth does their relative wealth have to do with anything, especially now he's been found not guilty?

 

Meanwhile the BBC went with the totally unnecessarily sensationalist headline of "Footballer Evans cleared of raping teenager". That she was a teenager is absolutely irrelevant to the charge and obviously fails to acknowledge that Evans himself was a young man at the time.

 

Gutter journalism which not only misses the point but contributes to the furore.

 

 

[leicsmac]

12 minutes ago, ttfn said:

I'm finding the Guardian's coverage of this quite distasteful.

 

Firstly the main article is predominantly about how women's groups fear the verdict (and way it was reached) will stop real victims coming forward. Whilst this is clearly a big concern, it is a secondary issue here in what is a news story about a man who spent 2 years in prison for a crime the law says he didn't commit. The time to talk about secondary issues is surely once the dust has settled; I'd have thought that the main issue here is a pretty severe miscarriage of justice.

 

Secondly the supporting piece is entitled "The rich footballer and the waitress living at home". What on earth does their relative wealth have to do with anything, especially now he's been found not guilty?

 

Meanwhile the BBC went with the totally unnecessarily sensationalist headline of "Footballer Evans cleared of raping teenager". That she was a teenager is absolutely irrelevant to the charge and obviously fails to acknowledge that Evans himself was a young man at the time.

 

Gutter journalism which not only misses the point but contributes to the furore.

 

 

I would say that the way this case affects the reporting of rape victims going forward is far from a secondary concern, given that it is already the most under reported and most maligned and stigmatized of what would be called major crimes anyway and then a high profile case ending up playing out like this. This really isn't going to help with that, and we've got the plod to thank for that. It's a fully legitimate concern that should be voiced at this time.

 

Your point about the slant of media across the board is spot on, though.

[Guest ttfn]

2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I would say that the way this case affects the reporting of rape victims going forward is far from a secondary concern, given that it is already the most under reported and most maligned and stigmatized of what would be called major crimes anyway and then a high profile case ending up playing out like this. This really isn't going to help with that, and we've got the plod to thank for that. It's a fully legitimate concern that should be voiced at this time.

 

Your point about the slant of media across the board is spot on, though.

I don't disagree that it's a legitimate concern at all, I think it's important that it's not forgotten. I just don't think it's the primary concern at this time.

 

Absolutely agree that the police are at fault here though. Terrible situation for everybody involved.

[GaelicFox]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I would say that the way this case affects the reporting of rape victims going forward is far from a secondary concern, given that it is already the most under reported and most maligned and stigmatized of what would be called major crimes anyway and then a high profile case ending up playing out like this. This really isn't going to help with that, and we've got the plod to thank for that. It's a fully legitimate concern that should be voiced at this time.

 

Your point about the slant of media across the board is spot on, though.

the media is irresponsible , but actually it's a lot better than say 30 or 40 years ago , the issue is the Facebook and twitter jury's they are what will turn victims of any personal crime off coming forward , the victim is arguably very well protected in law and maybe protecting the accused identity might actually make the vicitim more comfortable as well  as there would be no huge media butchering

 

[Voll Blau]

Nothing wrong with the BBC's headline at all. It's completely accurate.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

3 hours ago, purpleronnie said:

It also emerged that Evans’ younger brother and another man were trying to film what was happening from outside the room.

 

Imagine filming your brother getting his end away.

Welsh all over, this.

[Mike Oxlong]

33 minutes ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

 

Imagine filming your brother getting his end away.

Welsh all over, this.

Too right

 

Told 'tis by an ex copper from North Wales. He was keeping under surveillance a property half way up a mountain shared by a nurse and her drug dealing boyfriend. 

 

One night he heard a bit of a commotion coming from the cottage so he crept up to the window to see what was going on. 

 

The drug dealer was banging the nurse hell for leather. She was finding it really difficult to keep still the car wing mirror on a stick that she was holding to give herself a view of the action !

[leicsmac]

I know it's been said already, but sweet Jesus, Twitter is utterly fvcking awful about this tonight. You've got the hardcore MRAs on one side and then you've got varying parties on the other. It's entertaining in a really twisted car crash kind of way.

[GaelicFox]

1. A man, O, gave evidence that, two weeks after 29 May 2011, he had been out drinking with X, and had engaged in consensual sexual intercourse, during which she instructed him to penetrate her vaginally from behind, shouting, “**** me harder”. 
2. A second man, S, gave evidence that, on 28 May 2011, X had engaged him in a night of drunken sexual activity, in which she adopted the same sexual position and used words, “Go harder”.

 

thats from the court report ..... who on earth could believe a 19yo girl who was supposed to have been raped would 2 weeks later be out again  picking up strange men for sex  ...honestly how did this 2nd trial even get to court ! 

 

Millions of public money wasted trying to convict a lad who did nothing more than millions of lads around the globe will do this weekend ! 

[Manwell Pablo]

4 hours ago, GaelicFox said:

She said she was drunk and drugged that was bullshite she wAs texting her mate from the room,  in perfect English and no spelling mistakes

 

To me her evidence was a fabrication to fit the possibility of a pay out 

 

she knew what she was doing ! And she knew what she did was wrong 

 

I think you need to remember she legally claimed nothing, she didn't testify in either case, and didn't raise the original complaint. The claims were made by the crown prosecution service.

 

if she had cried rape I'd be all for her being victimised, but she didn't, you don't call the police about a missing bag if you want to cry rape.

[fuchsntf]

10 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

I think you need to remember she legally claimed nothing, she didn't testify in either case, and didn't raise the original complaint. The claims were made by the crown prosecution service.

 

if she had cried rape I'd be all for her being victimised, but she didn't, you don't call the police about a missing bag if you want to cry rape.

Is that true...jesus how the hell did this case get started  and well out of hand

( No pun intended). 

[Manwell Pablo]

4 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

Is that true...jesus how the hell did this case get started  and well out of hand

( No pun intended). 

 

Because the police asker her what went on the night before.

 

as I said I can't blame them for investigating, it's just amazing it made it to court never mind all the way to a guilty verdict.

[GaelicFox]

12 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

  

I think you need to remember she legally claimed nothing, she didn't testify in either case, and didn't raise the original complaint. The claims were made by the crown prosecution service.

 

if she had cried rape I'd be all for her being victimised, but she didn't, you don't call the police about a missing bag if you want to cry rape.

That's a skim of the legal facts but the fact remains she lied about being intoxicated and not rememembering was an embellishment , she wasn't intoxicated and she wasn't date rape drugged another fabrication that was a cunning plan to get a nice lump sum out of a rich footballer 

 

I would have bought the whole "she was led up the garden path by the police" but there is one huge flaw in that her father and family talking to the media ...in hindsight they gave the game away 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2807965/My-plea-star-raped-daughter-Stop-claiming-innocent-s-destroying-family-Ched-Evans-victim-silent-father-speaks-devastating-effect.html

 

they seemed to be very happy trash an innocent man in the media back then on her sat so when they sniffed a big pay out , but now she has been shown to be a lying cow they are claiming "ahh she didn't actually say he raped her" sorry manwell I respect you a great deal but that bullshite don't hold any water , it's obvious what sort of slag she was ! And this interview her dad gave was the build up to a private compensation court case , but evans found out about the texts and the other sex partners and that scuppered her compo case 

 

she didn't give evidence because she knew the whole thing was bullshite and that one day she might face perjury charges !

 

Clever cow ....but not Clever enough 

 

[GaelicFox]

3 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

Because the police asker her what went on the night before.

 

as I said I can't blame them for investigating, it's just amazing it made it to court never mind all the way to a guilty verdict.

 

[fuchsntf]

5 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

Because the police asker her what went on the night before.

 

as I said I can't blame them for investigating, it's just amazing it made it to court never mind all the way to a guilty verdict.

Shouldnt somebody be held to account here. Is it a question of a low celebrity witch hunt,

or honest suspicions gone wrong .

 

[Voll Blau]

Worth reading, although I suspect most are sadly quite happy to have made up their mind one way or another on this issue...

 

https://thesecretbarrister.com/2016/10/14/10-myths-busted-about-the-ched-evans-case/

[GaelicFox]

51 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Worth reading, although I suspect most are sadly quite happy to have made up their mind one way or another on this issue...

 

https://thesecretbarrister.com/2016/10/14/10-myths-busted-about-the-ched-evans-case/

All good but it's an explanation of the due process of law and it's application , which is as everyone knows ****ed up 

 

what about natural justice ! 

 

This poor ****er has had his Life distroyed by the CPS and bumbling cops 

[Voll Blau]

6 minutes ago, GaelicFox said:

All good but it's an explanation of the due process of law and it's application , which is as everyone knows ****ed up 

 

what about natural justice ! 

 

This poor ****er has had his Life distroyed by the CPS and bumbling cops 

What would "natural justice" entail for you in this case then?

[GaelicFox]

Just now, Voll Blau said:

What would "natural justice" entail for you in this case then?

£5m for him and his family to share

 

the "victim" her ass branded "dangerous" and her old man to go back in the daily mail and apologise for the absolute bollox he coughed up about this lad. 

 

For evans personally I'd like to see him visit every football academy in this country and tell the lads how behaving like a cock and being a shite bag can get you in a lot of trouble and they shouldn't be wankers like him 

 

his brother needs some therapy , anyone looking in the window filming his brothers balls being worked over has deep deep issues ! So I'd lock him up for a while in rampton

 

Finally Jessica Ennis pay for a whole stand in sheffield to be named and painted "jess Ennis says sorry to Chad Evans" stand 

 

that will do for now , when I have parked my white van I May be  back with more  

[gw_leics772]

Im glad im too much of a dinosaur to use twitter, thats a whole other debate but for me it makes me feel a little uncomfortable about my comments in the adam johnson thread.

 

Rape and paedophilia are the lowest of the low and i stand by my comments that innocent until proven guilty doesnt work for footballers. If found guilty we have basically let/ encouraged our kids to cheer on a rapist/paedophile. Luckily (?!?!) he was convicted and my comments were vindicated but this poor lad has had his life ruined. In this day and age of spiralling wages and celebrity status, who is to say what this could have cost him. I predict a record potential national debt breaking settlement.

 

Disclaimer- im not saying this is anywhere near the primary concern here but it is undoubtedly the most clear cut unemotional part to discuss (ive already gone deeper than i wanted to)

 

The fact is, and this is without reading too many of the "facts" this lads life is in tatters and i cant begin to imagine what he went through. Sounds like an almighty **** up by the powers that be for it to have got this far, but on reflection i still feel strongly about my comments about them not pmaying while awaiting trial. Just needs to be far more clear cut for it to get that far.

 

Innocent til proven guilty doesnt work imo, and certainly not in these kind of cases but a court case should never be used as a speculative cluster**** to catch a big fish.

 

Maybe the answer is that it should be dealt with in a closed courtroom, a damn sight quicker than it obviously is. Surely the evidence is easier to get immediately and act on.

 

Confused and conflicted!

 

My views still stand but in this case the system is ****ed and has let everybody down.

 

Heads should roll as this could easily have been a needless suicide of an innocent man

 

Disclaimer 2- im not even going to touch the morals and ethics. Ive done things im not proud of but to be labelled a racist (by anyone) is about as bad as it gets

 

Tldr: just read ityou lazy bastard or move on and ignore it :o)

[FireFox]

3 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

Worth reading, although I suspect most are sadly quite happy to have made up their mind one way or another on this issue...

 

https://thesecretbarrister.com/2016/10/14/10-myths-busted-about-the-ched-evans-case/

5. ... " Drunk consent, as juries are reminded by judges, is still consent."

 

What?

[Manwell Pablo]

3 hours ago, GaelicFox said:

That's a skim of the legal facts but the fact remains she lied about being intoxicated and not rememembering was an embellishment , she wasn't intoxicated and she wasn't date rape drugged another fabrication that was a cunning plan to get a nice lump sum out of a rich footballer 

 

I would have bought the whole "she was led up the garden path by the police" but there is one huge flaw in that her father and family talking to the media ...in hindsight they gave the game away 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2807965/My-plea-star-raped-daughter-Stop-claiming-innocent-s-destroying-family-Ched-Evans-victim-silent-father-speaks-devastating-effect.html

 

they seemed to be very happy trash an innocent man in the media back then on her sat so when they sniffed a big pay out , but now she has been shown to be a lying cow they are claiming "ahh she didn't actually say he raped her" sorry manwell I respect you a great deal but that bullshite don't hold any water , it's obvious what sort of slag she was ! And this interview her dad gave was the build up to a private compensation court case , but evans found out about the texts and the other sex partners and that scuppered her compo case 

 

she didn't give evidence because she knew the whole thing was bullshite and that one day she might face perjury charges !

 

Clever cow ....but not Clever enough 

 

 

I don't think she's clever at all, I'd bet she'd long for the day she could go back in time and make sure this sorry incident never started. But as I say, if you think this is a gold digging attempt having reviewed the case history I think your a mile wide of the mark. She didn't give evidence because, as Both herd and the cps stance has always been, she has no useful evidence to give.

 

as for her old mans stance on it, irrelevant, that's a father doing his best to look out for his daughter and draw a line under it. He wasn't right to do so but I can empathise, right or wrong you look after your own and it was far too late to back track.

 

it would be best now if everyone moved on and Evans gets the compensation from the state he deserves.

 

 

[Finnegan]

9 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

Worth reading, although I suspect most are sadly quite happy to have made up their mind one way or another on this issue...

 

https://thesecretbarrister.com/2016/10/14/10-myths-busted-about-the-ched-evans-case/

 

I've already stopped myself responding to this thread on three separate occasions because I don't want to get dragged back in and because it's clear I'm never going to agree with the majority consensus on FoxesTalk.

 

What little I will offer to contribute is that reading and understanding this link above from VB should be mandatory for anyone wanting to give a view on the subject.