Guest MattP Posted 15 July 2014 Share Posted 15 July 2014 Strange that some people would ostracize another person just because they won't shake hands. What miserable people they must be. I'd imagine the opposite, a person likely to really want to engage in handshakes, politeness and conversation would probably be the happy go lucky type who wouldn't waste his time with such ignorance. Life's too short. Better than being a brainwashed pushover sheep-dhimmi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleronnie Posted 15 July 2014 Share Posted 15 July 2014 nah, better that than saying 'oh you don't want to shake hands so I don't want to know you' like some petulant brat in a playground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 15 July 2014 Share Posted 15 July 2014 Billy Mitchells offer of a handshake has just been turned down by the DC questioning him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 15 July 2014 Share Posted 15 July 2014 nah, better that than saying 'oh you don't want to shake hands so I don't want to know you' like some petulant brat in a playground. Only in Britain 2014 could the one wanting to be affable and engage in manners be the brat. I bet you've never met a Muslim anyway Lord Ronnie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 15 July 2014 Share Posted 15 July 2014 I've met some. Found them all pleasant people. One was a Councillor in Soulsby's team who we went to interview. Because of what I had learned I did not offer my hand to shake. Can't remember if she did but it did not distract from the reason that I was there and the interview was carried out in a professional manner with no hint of any objection to each others custom. We were not in a school playground that day. I was the cameraman that day, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 15 July 2014 Share Posted 15 July 2014 You realise all Muslim women don't refuse to shake hands? I've worked with loads and never had a problem. Are you sure it wasn't the clientele? I once claimed I had a bad wrist so I didn't have to touch a cash machine a very unkempt person had used and got a staff member in the bank to touch the buttons for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 15 July 2014 Share Posted 15 July 2014 Let's be honest we've all been there. I was walking through town on a week day the other week and there was so many scrubbers around I was not only embarrassed by being so close to them but also felt physically dirty. If someone had have offered me a burka at that point i would have popped it on no questions asked. Anything that puts up a barrier between me and the dole scum is a good thing in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadt Posted 15 July 2014 Share Posted 15 July 2014 Billy Mitchells offer of a handshake has just been turned down by the DC questioning him. Almost textbook Rincewind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 15 July 2014 Share Posted 15 July 2014 Fishy fishy take the bait You'll have a long time to wait Carry on trolling the superb FT site No more teeth left to bite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 15 July 2014 Share Posted 15 July 2014 I call this one, 'Ben'. Hello muzzie shake my hand, No thank you I can smell those cans, In my class room its arab land, Now get your head back in that sand. Thank you Miss I feel so enriched Basic skills you've covered the pitch, He's now a racist my mate Mitch, Still think I'm liberal but I know I've switched. Next week Ben goes to Mosque where he will learn even more tolerance and diversity where he sees the same sex classes, the local inams views on homosexuals and listens to a speech from the local youth of the Madrassa who do a play on how Hindus drink their own urine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 15 July 2014 Share Posted 15 July 2014 And Ben exclaimed "I'm open minded, The miss explained about a crisis That needs some loyal freedom fighters So I've packed my bags and I'm joining ISIS" Ben hit the ground with his suicide bomb The miss encouraged, "go on, go on" His finger feathered then pressured the trigger His final thoughts - "I'll die a sand - CUT! Take two take two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 15 July 2014 Share Posted 15 July 2014 Sorry I missed this. If I was in a business situation and someone didn't shake my hand I would find it absurd. If it was a gemophobe I would ask them to come to the toilet whilst we both wash our hands and then shake and wash again. If I was in another's country of course I would abide by their customs and laws, I can't believe you even have to ask that, exactly the reason I also expect people to fully abide by ours when they are here as well, I have no idea how I have come across as less tolerant than the person mentioned, could you expand on that? Having said that using a bit of common sense I don't really think this was anything to do with religion. Not shaking a hand is her belief, you are not tolerating her, you are not allowing her to have this belief, and don't think she has the right to follow her beliefs in this country. For you shaking a hand is a preference, a sign of respect but not a belief. A tolerant person would respect someone's right to choose not to shake their hand, an intolerant person wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 15 July 2014 Share Posted 15 July 2014 I think Matt is looking for the room for an argument. I have left it and locked it behind me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 16 July 2014 Share Posted 16 July 2014 I'm all for a women's right to choose what to wear, but with the veil I have to make an exception; when there are still millions of women around the world in the very same religion who are FORCED BY LAW to wear the veil/headscarf, I personally find it shameful for anyone to choose to wear it. By choosing to wear it you're not only ostracising yourself from society (not the other way round) you're also supporting the subjugation of your sisters who have no choice in the matter; just look at the 'My Stealthy Freedom' Facebook movement in Iran - women defying Iranian LAW by removing it to ILLEGALLY feel the wind and sun on their hair, as one of them beautifully put it. When you still have a situation where women can be arrested, flogged, intimidated for feeling the wind or sun on their hair, to choose to to wear it for the same religious reason they are forced to wear it is morally reprehensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 16 July 2014 Share Posted 16 July 2014 Not shaking a hand is her belief, you are not tolerating her, you are not allowing her to have this belief, and don't think she has the right to follow her beliefs in this country. For you shaking a hand is a preference, a sign of respect but not a belief. A tolerant person would respect someone's right to choose not to shake their hand, an intolerant person wouldn't. It's a ridiculous belief that has no place in the modern World and if it wasn't a Muslim professing it you would say though. It's pathetic and yet again I sit here wondering what your real motives are behind defending such baffling stuff. If I wanted to shake toes with you when we met you wouldn't as you would see it as a ridiculous, I would have to don a burka to see you bowing down to take your shoes and socks off to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 16 July 2014 Share Posted 16 July 2014 It's a ridiculous belief that has no place in the modern World and if it wasn't a Muslim professing it you would say though. It's pathetic and yet again I sit here wondering what your real motives are behind defending such baffling stuff. If I wanted to shake toes with you when we met you wouldn't as you would see it as a ridiculous, I would have to don a burka to see you bowing down to take your shoes and socks off to me. What do you think my motives are Matt? Are you incapable of losing an argument without resorting to that kind of comment. Is it really that baffling that I think someone has a right to choose if they want to be touched by someone or not, you've even said it yourself, there are people you wouldn't want to shake hands with. If it was the other way round and someone said my religion says that I must touch you, I would tell them to fvck off, but everyone of any religion, race or gender has the right to not be touched if they don't want to, it is even in the law of this liberal and tolerant country. You want to shake toes, I'd give it a go, sounds like fun, but I must warn you my feet can get a little cheesy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 16 July 2014 Share Posted 16 July 2014 You could be right Matt it is a ridiculous custom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 16 July 2014 Share Posted 16 July 2014 What do you think my motives are Matt? Are you incapable of losing an argument without resorting to that kind of comment. Is it really that baffling that I think someone has a right to choose if they want to be touched by someone or not, you've even said it yourself, there are people you wouldn't want to shake hands with. If it was the other way round and someone said my religion says that I must touch you, I would tell them to fvck off, but everyone of any religion, race or gender has the right to not be touched if they don't want to, it is even in the law of this liberal and tolerant country. Haha very good, no Captain, I've lost many an argument on here and never ever thought someone more sinister always lies behind it except when it's with you, it's probably an overhang from the peadophile stuff of course but i can't get it out of my head now. You've got some gall though making such an accusation, you accuse Moose of 'trolling' everytime he gets the better of you. Er? I'm not saying they don't have the right to be touched or not, I'm saying I wouldn't want to communicate with someone who refused my hand, I'd feel the same about someone to be honest who refuses to say hello or please and thank you as well. I have no idea why you have waffled on about that, I'm not asking to make shaking hands compulsory. You could be right Matt it is a ridiculous custom. Jesus Christ Ken, I have no idea where you got that or what you think it proves. You might even get a position at a school in Birmingham if you carry on. I'll give you the main two fallacies with it anyway. 1. It isn't law anywhere to wear a bikini. 2. The one on the left will be choosing herself to wear what she is 100%, the one on the right in all reality probably isn't. But you keep on supporting that burka if you really think it's all about human rights. There are none as blind as those who can't see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 16 July 2014 Share Posted 16 July 2014 Haha very good, no Captain, I've lost many an argument on here and never ever thought someone more sinister always lies behind it except when it's with you, it's probably an overhang from the peadophile stuff of course but i can't get it out of my head now. You've got some gall though making such an accusation, you accuse Moose of 'trolling' everytime he gets the better of you. Er? I'm not saying they don't have the right to be touched or not, I'm saying I wouldn't want to communicate with someone who refused my hand, I'd feel the same about someone to be honest who refuses to say hello or please and thank you as well. I have no idea why you have waffled on about that, I'm not asking to make shaking hands compulsory. But this is my point, it is not compulsory, it is not a belief, it is a preference. You would prefer to shake someone's hand, fine. You say you wouldn't do business with someone who won't shake your hand, no problem with that, your choice. But to say someone has no place in our tolerant society because their religion says they shouldn't shake someone's hand, is irony on the highest level, do you really not think that that statement was intolerant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkon84 Posted 16 July 2014 Share Posted 16 July 2014 I've grown up, been through education, and worked with people of every conceivable race, religion etc, and can safely say that some of my good friends are Muslim, Sikh and Hindu, but I have NEVER ever heard of not shaking someone's hand due to their religion. If this woman cannot be touched by another male at all, what happens if she is in an accident and requires a doctor's attention, for example? Shaking hands within business etc is common courtesy and is recognized worldwide. That's just the way it is, and by refusing to do so, is distancing herself from most. There are things in this world that people won't agree on, and things where we don't necessarily like, but that's just the way things are, so we suck it up and accept it. This is one of those situations where there norm is to greet, be polite and shake hands, and so she should suck it up and get on with it. Do you hear people in other countries moaning when they have an international business meeting/call and it is conducted in English? No, because it's international language of business. That's how it is, so that's how it's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 16 July 2014 Share Posted 16 July 2014 I've grown up, been through education, and worked with people of every conceivable race, religion etc, and can safely say that some of my good friends are Muslim, Sikh and Hindu, but I have NEVER ever heard of not shaking someone's hand due to their religion. If this woman cannot be touched by another male at all, what happens if she is in an accident and requires a doctor's attention, for example? Shaking hands within business etc is common courtesy and is recognized worldwide. That's just the way it is, and by refusing to do so, is distancing herself from most. There are things in this world that people won't agree on, and things where we don't necessarily like, but that's just the way things are, so we suck it up and accept it. This is one of those situations where there norm is to greet, be polite and shake hands, and so she should suck it up and get on with it. Do you hear people in other countries moaning when they have an international business meeting/call and it is conducted in English? No, because it's international language of business. That's how it is, so that's how it's done. Perfect, put in a far more eloquent way than I managed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 16 July 2014 Share Posted 16 July 2014 But this is my point, it is not compulsory, it is not a belief, it is a preference. You would prefer to shake someone's hand, fine. You say you wouldn't do business with someone who won't shake your hand, no problem with that, your choice. But to say someone has no place in our tolerant society because their religion says they shouldn't shake someone's hand, is irony on the highest level, do you really not think that that statement was intolerant? Yes but I think it's perfectly entitled to be, it would be no different to someone being intolerant of me if I wanted to walk around Mecca with a beer in my hand, I would be the one out of order and it would be the done and polite thing for me to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 16 July 2014 Share Posted 16 July 2014 Yes but I think it's perfectly entitled to be, it would be no different to someone being intolerant of me if I wanted to walk around Mecca with a beer in my hand, I would be the one out of order and it would be the done and polite thing for me to do. I'm sure they wouldn't mind you walking around Mecca with a beer provided that you were wearing a niqab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 16 July 2014 Share Posted 16 July 2014 I thought this was about a tutor, I've never had a tutor/teacher that showed any intention to shaking hands, I've even taught a few people as well and it never occurred to me to shake the hands of any of the participants Have times changes or am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 16 July 2014 Share Posted 16 July 2014 I've grown up, been through education, and worked with people of every conceivable race, religion etc, and can safely say that some of my good friends are Muslim, Sikh and Hindu, but I have NEVER ever heard of not shaking someone's hand due to their religion. If this woman cannot be touched by another male at all, what happens if she is in an accident and requires a doctor's attention, for example? Shaking hands within business etc is common courtesy and is recognized worldwide. That's just the way it is, and by refusing to do so, is distancing herself from most. There are things in this world that people won't agree on, and things where we don't necessarily like, but that's just the way things are, so we suck it up and accept it. This is one of those situations where there norm is to greet, be polite and shake hands, and so she should suck it up and get on with it. Do you hear people in other countries moaning when they have an international business meeting/call and it is conducted in English? No, because it's international language of business. That's how it is, so that's how it's done. I don't disagree that it is ridiculous, but it is their right to be ridiculous, and it doesn't harm anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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