Well atleast we can trust our government to stand up for whats rigt!

[xHamzah]

[Parafox]

 

A human shield????

 

Where are the Hamas weapons there, then?

 

Shot dead by an Israeli sniper whilst trying to find his family.

 

Is that not an act of terrorism?

 

Edit @17:45. As Webbo says (and I did notice the credits at the end of the clip) not verified and as such needs to be treated with caution. I have no doubt that Buce et al, much as i respect their views, will claim a Hamas killing of a Palestinian to strengthen their cause.

 

Equally, it could be an Israeli sniper...

 

There was no fakery with the boys on the beach though.

[Webbo]

"Edited by the international solidarity movement". Has there been any independent verification?

 

I'm not saying it's definitely fake but I'll keep an open mind on that.

[Parafox]

 

Possibly Palestinian sympathiser driven but it can't be denied theres's a hell of a lot of facts and truth in this video.

 

Please watch it

[Parafox]

A human shield????

 

Where are the Hamas weapons there, then?

 

Shot dead by an Israeli sniper whilst trying to find his family.

 

Is that not an act of terrorism?

 

Edit @17:45. As Webbo says (and I did notice the credits at the end of the clip) not verified and as such needs to be treated with caution. I have no doubt that Buce et al, much as i respect their views, will claim a Hamas killing of a Palestinian to strengthen their cause.

 

Equally, it could be an Israeli sniper...

 

There was no fakery with the boys on the beach though. And the Israelis have some of the most sophisticated weaponry on the planet. Should be able to spot the difference between an open beach and an urban area.

[sphericalfox]

A human shield????

 

Where are the Hamas weapons there, then?

 

Shot dead by an Israeli sniper whilst trying to find his family.

 

Is that not an act of terrorism?

 

Edit @17:45. As Webbo says (and I did notice the credits at the end of the clip) not verified and as such needs to be treated with caution. I have no doubt that Buce et al, much as i respect their views, will claim a Hamas killing of a Palestinian to strengthen their cause.

 

Equally, it could be an Israeli sniper...

 

There was no fakery with the boys on the beach though.

 

I doubt that Channel Four, who have used that footage (omitting the murder at the end) twice in the last couple of days would use it without verifying it. Sure it happens, but they followed up the victim's story the following night, and met his family etc, and explained that that particular area was supposed to be declared off limits.

[Parafox]

I doubt that Channel Four, who have used that footage (omitting the murder at the end) twice in the last couple of days would use it without verifying it. Sure it happens, but they followed up the victim's story the following night, and met his family etc, and explained that that particular area was supposed to be declared off limits.

 

I didn't see C4 using this clip. Off limits for who?

[The Doctor]

I didn't see C4 using this clip. Off limits for who?

 

Both sides if I recall correctly - there's a fence on the border with a 1km exclusion zone.

[Parafox]

Both sides if I recall correctly - there's a fence on the border with a 1km exclusion zone.

 

So anyone goimg in there risks getting attacked by a sniper?????

 

Is there a sniper for each side?

[The Doctor]

So anyone goimg in there risks getting attacked by a sniper?????

 

Is there a sniper for each side?

 

Well the israelis built the wall to try and slow down suicide bombers, so I'd assume so. You're not really going to let people approach the anti-suicide bomber wall.

 

Not a clue.

[sphericalfox]

I didn't see C4 using this clip. Off limits for who?

 

Yesterday and the day before, Jon Snow used this clip twice, unless I've imagined it of course, and they didn't then go and meet the guy's surviving family.

[Parafox]

Well the israelis built the wall to try and slow down suicide bombers, so I'd assume so. You're not really going to let people approach the anti-suicide bomber wall.

 

Not a clue.

 

Hmm. The guy in the green t shirt must've had some pretty slimline bombs strapped to his body.

 

I get the impression (and no offence here) that you're an apologist for the Israelis. I see the "facts" as they are presented to me.

 

You must know that in the recent past Israel have been launching air strikes on Palestine without provocation which has had the effect of poking a viper with a stick. At some point there will be a strike back. It seems to me both sides want to draw each other into  a conflict but the Israelis want it more. |Didn't this episode start with the kidnap and murder of a Palestinian youth by Israel?

 

They've  besieged Gaza for years and control all it's basic needs and functions because they refuse to accept Palestine's existence. That's like England allowing Scotland independence but then cutting off all trade and supply links and chucking rockets at them for believing in the same God but in a different form and having a different language and then England denying that the Scots have any history or right to exist.

 

And yes, I know Palestinians deny the existance of Israel. That;s what makes this seem to us as bystanders so unjustified. Why can't they both just grow up and get along.

 

I blame the Crusades

[The Doctor]

Hmm. The guy in the green t shirt must've had some pretty slimline bombs strapped to his body.

 

I get the impression (and no offence here) that you're an apologist for the Israelis. I see the "facts" as they are presented to me.

 

You must know that in the recent past Israel have been launching air strikes on Palestine without provocation which has had the effect of poking a viper with a stick. At some point there will be a strike back. It seems to me both sides want to draw each other into  a conflict but the Israelis want it more. |Didn't this episode start with the kidnap and murder of a Palestinian youth by Israel?

 

They've  besieged Gaza for years and control all it's basic needs and functions because they refuse to accept Palestine's existence. That's like England allowing Scotland independence but then cutting off all trade and supply links and chucking rockets at them for believing in the same God but in a different form and having a different language and then England denying that the Scots have any history or right to exist.

 

And yes, I know Palestinians deny the existance of Israel. That;s what makes this seem to us as bystanders so unjustified. Why can't they both just grow up and get along.

 

I blame the Crusades

 

Not so much an israeli apologist as someone who is fed up of people painting what are in essence modern day nazis in Hamas as the victims. I oppose genocide, hence I'd side with Israel if forced to pick a side. In reality though, I think both sides are arses - Israel are using far more force than necessary, but Hamas are lower than scum.

 

No. Israelis captured and killed a Palestinian in response to an israeli teenager being kidnapped and killed.

 

Not true though, Israel are willing to negotiate land for peace - they did it with Egypt, and they'd be willing to do it with Palestine - they tried it in 2000, but it was scuppered by Palestinian suicide bomb attacks.

 

Because Hamas are anti-semites who openly admit they want to eradicate the jews from the face of the earth (justification being that no-one can end up in Paradise until the jews have been exterminated - Islamic theology is that people don't go to paradise immediately, everyone is resurrected on the day of judgement, their deeds weighed up and their destination decided, and hamas cite one verse: "“The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: ‘The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.’”" - which would mean that they see the genocide of the Jews as being necessary for them to end up in paradise). They can't grow up and get along when at the very core of one's ideology is that the other one needs to be exterminated.

[Dr The Singh]

Not so much an israeli apologist as someone who is fed up of people painting what are in essence modern day nazis in Hamas as the victims. I oppose genocide, hence I'd side with Israel if forced to pick a side. In reality though, I think both sides are arses - Israel are using far more force than necessary, but Hamas are lower than scum.

No. Israelis captured and killed a Palestinian in response to an israeli teenager being kidnapped and killed.

Not true though, Israel are willing to negotiate land for peace - they did it with Egypt, and they'd be willing to do it with Palestine - they tried it in 2000, but it was scuppered by Palestinian suicide bomb attacks.

Because Hamas are anti-semites who openly admit they want to eradicate the jews from the face of the earth (justification being that no-one can end up in Paradise until the jews have been exterminated - Islamic theology is that people don't go to paradise immediately, everyone is resurrected on the day of judgement, their deeds weighed up and their destination decided, and hamas cite one verse: "“The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: ‘The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.’”" - which would mean that they see the genocide of the Jews as being necessary for them to end up in paradise). They can't grow up and get along when at the very core of one's ideology is that the other one needs to be exterminated.

Phew! Day of judgement doesn't involve killing Sikhs, were saved!!!

Seriously though, what do Muslims think of this, I can't believe people can follow such nonesence, IF true.

[ADK]

Sounds like something Nick Griffin would say.

[Dr The Singh]

Sounds like something Nick Griffin would say.

Nick Griffin a prophet of Islam, makes sense, I wonder if hadiths substantiate this?

[The Doctor]

Phew! Day of judgement doesn't involve killing Sikhs, were saved!!!

Seriously though, what do Muslims think of this, I can't believe people can follow such nonesence, IF true.

 

Not certain, but I think it's the same justifications as killing the unbelievers where ever you find them - that at the time their tribe was at war and those verses relate to conduct at the time.

 

Then you'll also get apologist shills like El Empty who deny it all and accuse the scholars of being liars for calling the hadeeths reputable.

[midland_red]

It was British owned land.

That's called the spoils of war son

Might I recommend a study of history to you dude? Palestine was not 'british owned' - it was a British Mandate from the league of nations.

[Dr The Singh]

Not certain, but I think it's the same justifications as killing the unbelievers where ever you find them - that at the time their tribe was at war and those verses relate to conduct at the time.

Then you'll also get apologist shills like El Empty who deny it all and accuse the scholars of being liars for calling the hadeeths reputable.

Ahhh yes, Allah and his impromptue revelAtions.......it always baffle me how his revelations came when Mohammed needed them, never planned in advance. Eg the one about drinking alcohol, Allah had to witness his followers making peats of themselves first before banning alcohol. I would have thought his almighty would know the effects of alcohol, one might say Allah was rather trying to make mo happy as he struggled to cope with a drunken rabble.

The hadiths are amazing but I read one about How you know a prophet is by how his shit stinks, and the prophet's faeces smelt like roses, so he must be a prophet.............after that I know they were talking shit and gave up.

[The Doctor]

Might I recommend a study of history to you dude? Palestine was not 'british owned' - it was a British Mandate from the league of nations.

 

so... it was land that the british were in charge of then.... great, that changes everything. 

[Parafox]

15 women and children killed in a UN school attacked by Israel

17 people killed in a rocket attack on a Palestinian market.

 

All innocent. No proof that Hamas were using these areas as rocket launch sites.

 

Israel ignored 17 warnings that the UN school was a place of shelter.

 

Sorry but now I can no longer accept any apology from Israel and it's supporters that they don't target innocent people.

 

Israel can issue all kinds of rhetoric and accusations against Hamas. They have the most sophisticated defence system and Hamas rockets regularly fail to reach their targets but Israel strike back with utter disregard.

 

Buce, I;m sorry. I can't agree with you or find any excuse for what Israel is doing now.

[Rincewind]

They are firing rockets into streets hoping to hit hidden armories. Utter madness. They had a cease fire and the area they were hitting was not included. I prefer to remain neutral in this type of conflict but it is hard not to take sides when there are so many indiscriminate loss of young lives. They may be as bad as one another  for not making peace and continuing the tit for tat but there are no winners in war And Israel as the larger of the two in fire power should have the courage to try and make peace and hold out a helping hand to their neighbours.

[The Doctor]

15 women and children killed in a UN school attacked by Israel

17 people killed in a rocket attack on a Palestinian market.

 

All innocent. No proof that Hamas were using these areas as rocket launch sites.

 

Israel ignored 17 warnings that the UN school was a place of shelter.

 

Sorry but now I can no longer accept any apology from Israel and it's supporters that they don't target innocent people.

 

Israel can issue all kinds of rhetoric and accusations against Hamas. They have the most sophisticated defence system and Hamas rockets regularly fail to reach their targets but Israel strike back with utter disregard.

 

Buce, I;m sorry. I can't agree with you or find any excuse for what Israel is doing now.

 

No-one claims Israel are completely innocent, but they're certainly being treated as the bad guys for defending themselves. Hamas meanwhile are defended to the hilt/their crimes ignored by the pro-palestine protesters - people call for israel to drop its weapons completely, not to scale back its attacks; but they ignore that Hamas a) want every jew dead and b) refuse to negotiate for peace.

 

Now, imagine Wales and Scotland had teamed up and were making moves to kill every english person for "stealing their land". Imagine England had a fairly good missile defence system, but Wales and Scotland had more missiles than that system could handle and Wales/Scotland had no intent to negotiate for peace. Your options are strike back against them, or lay down your arms, at which point your missile defence system will be overwhelmed and all your citizens killed. Which do you choose?

 

 

They are firing rockets into streets hoping to hit hidden armories. Utter madness. They had a cease fire and the area they were hitting was not included. I prefer to remain neutral in this type of conflict but it is hard not to take sides when there are so many indiscriminate loss of young lives. They may be as bad as one another  for not making peace and continuing the tit for tat but there are no winners in war And Israel as the larger of the two in fire power should have the courage to try and make peace and hold out a helping hand to their neighbours.

 

Israel have tried to negotiate peace - they attempted to in 2000 and were met with suicide bomb attacks. Besides, Hamas have no intention of negotiating peace. They want to obliterate Israel.

[Captain...]

It does seem to be getting worse and harder to believe that Israel are only aiming for military targets.

[leicsmac]

No-one claims Israel are completely innocent, but they're certainly being treated as the bad guys for defending themselves. Hamas meanwhile are defended to the hilt/their crimes ignored by the pro-palestine protesters - people call for israel to drop its weapons completely, not to scale back its attacks; but they ignore that Hamas a) want every jew dead and b) refuse to negotiate for peace.

 

Now, imagine Wales and Scotland had teamed up and were making moves to kill every english person for "stealing their land". Imagine England had a fairly good missile defence system, but Wales and Scotland had more missiles than that system could handle and Wales/Scotland had no intent to negotiate for peace. Your options are strike back against them, or lay down your arms, at which point your missile defence system will be overwhelmed and all your citizens killed. Which do you choose?

 

 

 

Israel have tried to negotiate peace - they attempted to in 2000 and were met with suicide bomb attacks. Besides, Hamas have no intention of negotiating peace. They want to obliterate Israel.

 

Sorry, but I refuse to believe that all Palestinians want to wipe Israel off the map, but all of them are suffering because of this. Surely Hamas isn't representative of the lot of them?

 

Also, I think Iron Dome is much more effective than you claim here. Practically no Israeli civilians have been killed in this latest outbreak.

 

But, either way both sides seem to be lost in a mire of stupidity and tit-for-tat. It's going to take external influence on both parties for that to stop, but sadly having them at each others throats suits the larger powers realpolitik just fine.