Rotherham & other City/Town child abuse scandals

[Guest MattP]

On a side note, interesting to see that the social services department that allowed the Oxford outrage to happen belonged to Tory-run Oxfordshire County Council. I don't mean that as a cheap, party political point. The Labour council was guilty in Rotherham and elsewhere (Derby? Bradford?), and the Lib Dems in Rochdale. As most cities with large Pakistani populations are run by Labour councils, it's likely to be Labour that has allowed this to happen more often than the rest. But the fact that Tory and Lib Dem councils took no action shows that it was a wider political culture, not just the culture of one political party.

 

Very good post (almost felt I was reading something from Moosebreath rather than yourself in the way it was written)     

 

On this point though I've quoted - has there actually been any evidence that Oxford council did anything like the one at Rotherham in terms if looking the other way?

[Dr The Singh]

I thought about it , but they are only Asian by region and this is it seems a very huge cultural problem for one specific nationality

It's something I'd like to see the representatives of the wider Pakistani communities and religions speak out against

Like the Roman catholic priests these crimes only flourish because deviant bastards are not checked on enough maybe because of fears of political correctness gone Mad but also because police and social service gave up on these children and that's equally a crime

This reflects bad on everyone really

Don't hold your breath, grooming of this kind isn't something new for that community, there were communal riots in the 80's because of this kind of behaviour, if it were not for a brave few men willing to take up arms and risk being put in prison, many a child would have suffered.  

 

Yet, 35 years on, nothing has changed and the same excuses and denial remain!!

[Alf Bentley]

Very good post (almost felt I was reading something from Moosebreath rather than yourself in the way it was written)   

 

On this point though I've quoted - has there actually been any evidence that Oxford council did anything like the one at Rotherham in terms if looking the other way?

 

  re. your first point!

 

Re. your second point: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-31708492(includes a link to the actual report, though I've not had the time to look at that in detail)

 

It's always possible to quibble about who was worse or who knew most, but what's quoted there about Oxfordshire social services (& Thames Valley police) is quite bad enough, even if it wasn't as bad as in Rotherham.

They clearly had a good idea what was going on, but dismissed it as bad girls running around behaving badly (so maybe a party political distinction there - the Labour lot turning a blind eye to avoid being seen as racists, and the Tory lot turning a blind eye because they assumed the victims were just a load of contemptible chavs?).

 

Must work....

[GaelicFox]

Don't hold your breath, grooming of this kind isn't something new for that community, there were communal riots in the 80's because of this kind of behaviour, if it were not for a brave few men willing to take up arms and risk being put in prison, many a child would have suffered.  

 

Yet, 35 years on, nothing has changed and the same excuses and denial remain!!

Yea I know ....hope is about all we have

[Rob1742]

We go there every other year rob , last summer I was in a pub (where else) got talking to a local (of Scottish origin ..so many of them !!) , I mentoned this case to him and he basically said the whole thing was made up by the mainland media and the scum children that were 'imported' to the island told a lot of lies for compensation

I shook my head and left I couldn't be arse to challenge his madness , but I'm of the opinion many on the island thought the same as old Bertie

Yeah, the government have covered it up well. They ensure it is not on the news, either TV or newspapers, as they control these. They do a great job of keeping all the information away from the public.

The only reason I managed to find out about it was because we go every year and I subscribed to the newspapers.

The health minister mentioned the abuse and I thought it was odd that he was sacked as soon as he raised the issue. Then the chief of police got suspended when he raised the issue.

At that point I started digging further as the newspapers clearly were not making much out of these key changes. Then you see there was a massive cover up and the locals are being kept away from the issue.

The locals just carry on, read the papers, just see Stuart Syvret as a troublemaker. He though has a blog and puts hard evidence on there that proves what is going on.

[GaelicFox]

Yeah, the government have covered it up well. They ensure it is not on the news, either TV or newspapers, as they control these. They do a great job of keeping all the information away from the public.

The only reason I managed to find out about it was because we go every year and I subscribed to the newspapers.

The health minister mentioned the abuse and I thought it was odd that he was sacked as soon as he raised the issue. Then the chief of police got suspended when he raised the issue.

At that point I started digging further as the newspapers clearly were not making much out of these key changes. Then you see there was a massive cover up and the locals are being kept away from the issue.

The locals just carry on, read the papers, just see Stuart Syvret as a troublemaker. He though has a blog and puts hard evidence on there that proves what is going on.

Reminds me of Ireland in so many many horrific and beautiful ways , still love to visit but that is a serious issue

Have you been racing there ?? We took a horse over there a few years ago was like dingley for flat horse

[l444ry]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/margaret-thatcher-knew-cyril-smith-5292476

[Rob1742]

Reminds me of Ireland in so many many horrific and beautiful ways , still love to visit but that is a serious issue

Have you been racing there ?? We took a horse over there a few years ago was like dingley for flat horse

Been to the races a few times, a bit of a novelty, but worn off a bit now.

Jersey is ace, love the place, but because it is quite small, you can pass some of the government oiks who have been involved in the cover ups in the streets. Weird. Hope it all gets sorted out, but at the moment it is still way down the agenda

[Webbo]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/margaret-thatcher-knew-cyril-smith-5292476

Fearless Mail on Sunday exposing the truth again.

[l444ry]

Fearless Mail on Sunday exposing the truth again.

Does this response mean you don't believe the story or are you speaking in code again Webbo?

[Webbo]

Does this response mean you don't believe the story or are you speaking in code again Webbo?

No, I believe it, Mrs T was told. Whether she didn't believe it, didn't care or was advised to award the knighthood by her civil servants anyway I don't know, but it's obviously true.

[l444ry]

No, I believe it, Mrs T was told. Whether she didn't believe it, didn't care or was advised to award the knighthood by her civil servants anyway I don't know, but it's obviously true.

Seems to be quite a list she turned a blind eye to or chose to ignore information about.  Thompson, Hayman, Savile, Brittan, Proctor etc. etc.

[Webbo]

Seems to be quite a list she turned a blind eye to or chose to ignore information about.  Thompson, Hayman, Savile, Brittan, Proctor etc. etc.

I notice you didn't include a certain former local Labour MP in that list. As far as I'm aware there's nothing but insinuation against leon Britton. Harvey Proctor was prosecuted but what he did wouldn't be illegal today and lots of people turned a blind eye to Savile.

 

If anyone has done anything illegal then they should be prosecuted. I have no argument with that.

[rico]

No police officers to be charged in Rochdale abuse case

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-31857066

[davieG]

Cyril Smith child abuse inquiry 'scrapped after his arrest'

By Nick Hopkins and Jake MorrisBBC Newsnight

According to a former officer, police were told to hand over all their evidence, as Nick Hopkins reports

Continue reading the main story Related Stories

• Thatcher 'told of Smith abuse claims'
• Three Cyril Smith probes 'halted'
• 'Threats' made to Cyril Smith police

An undercover police operation that gathered evidence of child abuse by Cyril Smith and other public figures was scrapped shortly after the MP was arrested, BBC Newsnight has been told.

The Liberal MP, who died in 2010, was held during a 1980s probe into alleged sex parties with teenage boys in south London, a source told the programme.

He was allegedly released within hours of being taken to a police station.

The Met is looking into the handling of historical child sex abuse cases.

The force would not comment on the details of the allegations about Smith put to them by Newsnight.

A spokesman said it was "investigating allegations that police officers acted inappropriately in relation to non-recent child abuse investigations" however, and asked for anyone with information to come forward.

'Secrets act' warning

Information has been passed to Newsnight by a former officer, who is familiar with the original investigation and its closure.

The order to scrap the inquiry, made after Smith and others had been arrested, came from a senior officer whom the undercover team had never met before, according to the source.

Officers were then ordered to hand over all their evidence - including notebooks and video footage - and were warned to keep quiet about the investigation or face prosecution under the Official Secrets Act, it is claimed.

Newsnight has been told the intelligence-led operation is believed to have started in 1981.

It involved a team of undercover regional crime squad officers, including some from Yorkshire who were based in London for the secret inquiry.

Part of the early 1980s investigation focused on Coronation Buildings in Lambeth

The detectives were stationed at Gilmour House, a large police headquarters building in Kennington, south London.

The team allegedly targeted six or more addresses in the south of the capital. One focus was a flat in Coronation Buildings, Lambeth - a run-down tenement block less than a mile from the House of Commons.

During a three-month inquiry, officers working in shifts gathered a substantial amount of evidence of men abusing boys aged about 14, the BBC has been told.

That evidence included pictures and video taken from inside the flat, as a hidden camera had been installed with the help of a caretaker.

Smith is said to have been one of those caught on camera, another being a senior member of Britain's intelligence agencies.

According to an account given to the BBC, Smith was later seized at a property in Streatham, south London, where he had reportedly been taking part in a sex party with teenage boys.

It is understood he was taken to the former Cannon Row police station - which is opposite the House of Commons.

But it was claimed he was released that night and a duty sergeant who wanted to keep him in custody was reprimanded.

The Met says it is "investigating allegations that police officers acted inappropriately in relation to non-recent child abuse investigations"

The BBC has been told that as well as Smith and the member of the intelligence agencies, the undercover team also had evidence on two senior police officers.

The squad believed that boys from care homes were being provided "to order" for sex parties, but the inquiry was abruptly shelved, the BBC has been told.

The team was called together at Gilmour House and told by a senior officer - whom they had never met before - to hand over their notebooks, photographs and video footage.

They were read passages from the Official Secrets Act to deter them from speaking out, according to one account.

There was a row at the police building but the inquiry was closed and officers were assured Smith "would not be playing a role in public life any more". In fact, he continued as MP for Rochdale until 1992.

Continue reading the main story “Start Quote

It is my view that Smith was being protected - and he was being protected by some fairly powerful people”

Labour MP Simon Danczuk

Newsnight's source spoke to the programme through an intermediary and is fearful of repercussions because of the scale of the alleged cover-up.

The BBC first approached the Met about the claims in January, but the force has refused to be drawn into providing details on any live inquiry.

Simon Danczuk, the Labour MP who has worked to expose Cyril Smith as a prolific paedophile, said: "Time and again what we have learned more recently is that a number of police officers investigated Smith, up and down the country, and those investigations were quashed and officers were told to stop investigating.

"It is my view that Smith was being protected and being protected by some fairly powerful people.

"He was protected because he knew of other paedophiles in the networks in which he operated and had he been prosecuted, then I think those other people would have been named by Smith and that's why they ensured that he was never put before the courts."

Labour MP Simon Danczuk has investigated child abuse by Cyril Smith

Newsnight asked former Scotland Yard detective Clive Driscoll, who investigated claims of child abuse in Lambeth in the 1980s and 1990s, to examine the allegations.

"I looked at them as I probably would have done when I was a police officer and, on the balance of probabilities, you would have to say they appear very credible," said Mr Driscoll, the officer whose inquiry led to the conviction of Stephen Lawrence's killers.

"Certainly the timing and the type of allegations that are made are ones that the Met would take very, very seriously."

He described the claimed as "very credible and very frightening".

"If you take all of the information that appears to be out there together it does look like collusion with police officers and other agencies to prevent what is a straightforward criminal case," he added.

Labour MP John Mann, who was also a councillor in Lambeth in the 1980s, said of the allegations: "It tells me the cloak of secrecy needs to be taken away but also suggests that there were people with things to hide at the time.

"For whatever reason, whatever judgement was made, there was a cover-up at the time. I don't know why, but it has happened time and again looking at these historic sex abuse cases and prominent people that files disappeared."

Watch Nick Hopkins's report on Newsnight or on BBC iPlayer.

[Jon the Hat]

_{Not a great shock.  Clearly there was an attitude within the police that politicans and senior civil servants were untouchable.  Where that came from is a more difficult question.}

Edited 17 March 2015 by Jon the Hat

[Alf Bentley]

_{Not a great shock.  Clearly there was an attitude within the police that politicans and senior civil servants were untouchable.  Where that came from is a more difficult question.}

 

I saw this report on Newsnight, as described in Davie's piece.

 

 

I find it interesting that the junior ranks clearly didn't see such people as untouchable. It wasn't a general culture, but a decision actively imposed by senior ranks of police.....for whatever reason.

 

As Davie's piece describes, a team had been running covert surveillance on Smith and others for months and had collected loads of evidence. It seems to have involved a large number of officers conducting continuous surveillance on half a dozen addresses for 3 months - so a pretty major investigation, one that presumably would have been supervised by a middle/senior-ranking officer. They'd then arrested Smith and others "in the act", but the custody sergeant was ordered to release Smith and even reprimanded for trying to keep him in custody. The police who'd collected all the evidence were then apparently summoned to a meeting with a senior officer they'd never met before, had to hand over all their evidence and were ordered to take the case no further despite their angry disagreement.....even being promised that Smith would leave public life (a promise that was broken).

 

The plug was clearly pulled at a very high level. By whom and precisely why, though?

Edited 17 March 2015 by Alf Bentley

[johnny the fox]

When you have got that kind of stuff on somebody..they belong to you..  that is power.

[davieG]

I just suspect there was more than just Smith involved as I can't  imagine whoever had the influence to  hide this did so to save the skin of a fairly inconsequential although popular liberal politician.

[Alf Bentley]

I just suspect there was more than just Smith involved as I can't  imagine whoever had the influence to  hide this did so to save the skin of a fairly inconsequential although popular liberal politician.

 

Yes, particularly if it was in the 80s. In the late 70s, with the Lib-Lab pact, he might have had some influence. But politically he was a nobody (if a recognisable character) by the 80s.

 

That doesn't necessarily mean that the people being protected were influential 80s politicians (though they may have been). If senior police or their mates were involved, that might have been enough.

 

Hopefully more people will come forward to tell their stories - and that should be actively encouraged. 

[davieG]

Yes, particularly if it was in the 80s. In the late 70s, with the Lib-Lab pact, he might have had some influence. But politically he was a nobody (if a recognisable character) by the 80s.

 

That doesn't necessarily mean that the people being protected were influential 80s politicians (though they may have been). If senior police or their mates were involved, that might have been enough.

 

Hopefully more people will come forward to tell their stories - and that should be actively encouraged. 

Quite, potentially a big can of influential worms

[Guest MattP]

Fresh evidence released - authorites were warned about this as far back as 2003.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-32586558

 

 

Fresh evidence has emerged that authorities in Rotherham were warned about child sexual exploitation in 2003 and again in 2006.

Police and council officials took no action despite being told organised gangs were grooming and abusing girls.

Ex-South Yorkshire Police drugs analyst Angie Heal said she "cannot fathom" why her reports did not lead to action.

Last year an inquiry found 1,400 children were abused by gangs of men, mainly of Pakistani origin.

The abuse happened between 1997 and 2013.

In the first report, released under a Freedom of Information request by The Sheffield Star, Dr Heal warned in 2003 that there was no room for complacency over the issue.

However, in a follow-up report three years later, she again detailed the problem, saying the situation in Rotherham was established and very serious.

The Sheffield Star also reported that senior police officers were given a list of people suspected of child sexual exploitation in South Yorkshire in an appendix to the 2003 report.

Rotherham Council, which is now run by government appointed commissioners, said it had been "unable to find any reference to the documents being formally considered" by the authority.

 

The biggest tragedy of course is that this is still going on.

Edited 5 May 2015 by MattP

[davieG]

Eight men have been arrested in a series of dawn raids in Oxford on suspicion of offences related to child sexual exploitation.

More than 100 police officers from Thames Valley Police carried out raids at eight properties across the city.

Police said alleged offences included rape, sexual grooming and indecent assault on girls from 1999 to 2007.

Det Supt Joe Kidman described the raids at 06:00 BST as part of a "complex investigation".

The alleged offences all involve female victims, with about 60 incidents being investigated.

The men arrested are aged between 29 and 45.

Searches are continuing at the addresses with neighbourhood patrols expected in the area throughout the day.

Thames Valley Police said that the arrests were part of "a stand-alone separate investigation" from Operation Bullfinch, in which seven men were jailed in June 2013 for crimes including child rape and trafficking.

"I understand today's events will have an impact on the community and residents will be concerned about the nature of these arrests," Det Supt Kidman said.

"This is an ongoing investigation. Tackling child sexual exploitation is an absolute priority for Thames Valley Police and this complex investigation and arrests today demonstrate this.

"We would encourage all victims of child sexual exploitation to come forward and speak to us in confidence. We will listen to you and we will support you."

[davieG]

About 300 possible suspects have been identified in an investigation into child sex abuse in Rotherham, the National Crime Agency (NCA) has said.

The agency said two of those under investigation were serving or former Rotherham councillors.

The inquiry, named Operation Stovewood, began in December in the wake of the Jay report which found 1,400 children were abused from 1997 to 2013.

Police said that estimate "remains a very good assessment".

The NCA said it had identified more than 3,300 lines of inquiry.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33256405

[davieG]

Aylesbury child sex abuse trial: Six men found guilty

• 16 minutes ago

•  
• From the sectionBeds, Herts & Bucks

Six of the 11 defendants on trial at the Old Bailey have been found guilty

Six men involved in a child sex ring in Buckinghamshire have been found guilty of abusing two schoolgirls on a "massive scale".

The Old Bailey heard the abuse in Aylesbury went on for years and involved rape and child prostitution.

Eleven defendants faced trial, accused of 47 sexual offences between 2006 and 2012.

Four were cleared of any wrongdoing, while the jury could not reach a verdict on one of the men.

The six who have been convicted will be sentenced in September.

The offences, which all the defendants denied any involvement in, took place in cars, vans, flats and sometimes the girls' homes in Aylesbury, the court heard.

One of the victims spent a lot of her time around Aylesbury Market where she was spotted by her first abuser, Vikram Singh

The jury deliberated for more than 42 hours before finding six men guilty of a range of offences against the girls, including rape, child prostitution and administering a substance to "stupefy" a girl in order to engage in sexual activity.

Charges and verdicts:

• Vikram Singh, 45, of Cannock Road, Aylesbury, was found guilty of four counts of rape and one of administering a substance with intent
• Asif Hussain, 33, of Hodge Lea, Milton Keynes, was convicted of three counts of rape
• Arshad Jani, 33, of Cousins Drive, Aylesbury, was found guilty of rape and conspiracy to rape
• Mohammed Imran, 38, of Springcliffe Street, Bradford, was convicted of three counts of rape, one count of conspiracy to rape and one count of child prostitution
• Akbari Khan, 36, of Mandeville Road, Aylesbury, was found guilty of two counts of rape, one of administering a substance with intent and conspiracy to rape
• Taimoor Khan, 29, of Highbridge Road, Aylesbury, was convicted of one count of sexual activity with a child
• Sajad Ali, 34, of Brockhurst Road, Chesham, was found not guilty of sexual activity with a child
• Sohail Qamar, 41, of St Anne's Road, Aylesbury, was cleared of two counts of rape, and assault occasioning actual bodily harm.
• Faisal Iqbal, 32, of Pixie Road, Aylesbury, was cleared of rape and sexual activity with a child
• Harmohan Nangpal, 41, of Langdale Drive, Hayes, was cleared of one count of rape, and one count of sexual activity with a child
• The jury could not decide on charges against Jerome Joe, 35, of Pightle Crescent, Buckingham. He denied one count of rape and a single count of sexual activity with a child.

The court heard evidence from both victims, who came from troubled backgrounds and were befriended by the men who gave them alcohol, DVDs, food and occasionally drugs.

When she was 12 or 13, one of the girls was passed between 60 Asian men for sex and had been conditioned to think it was normal behaviour, the jury was told.

Prosecutor Oliver Saxby QC said the victims were "easy prey for a group of men wanting casual sexual gratification that was easy, regular and readily available".