2015 Election season ..........stuff it in here.

[Captain...]

Agreed he did very well and that show has really made me think twice about him (not to vote for but as a credible PM whatever the country decides). However I thought along with the SNP questionining the PMQ response was quite poor. If he genuinely doesn't agree with it he should be the bigger man and not join in. You can't just get suckered in by mob mentality and say I do it because everyone else does it. He shouldn't need to become PM to change the way he and his party act at PMQs - it would be much more powerful if they changed their ways and the Tories/Lib Dems etc. continued.

On the coalition questioning, I think it's a poor get out from both Labour and the Tories to just say "we're gunning for a majority". We know that, but we also know that, in all likelihood, this general election will result in a coalition. So people should be able to vote in the knowledge that by voting X they may end up with a coalition of X and Y. It's not negative, it's realistic of the times we are in. You would also scupper the argument that "we never voted for this coalition" because everyone knows for sure who their vote is and could be a vote for (although it's pretty obvious: Tories/UKIP, Labour/SNP, Lib Dems + Labour or Tories depending on who wins more seats.

I've stopped watching PMQs because it is so bad and it got a lot worse when Cameron was elected I used to enjoy it under Blair but Brown just made it awkward and this lot make it unwatchable a fair point about Labour not needing to be in power to change it. I'll give it a watch next week see if it improves.

[Captain...]

Being able to prioritise (and even be encouraged to hire) British people over foreign born residents is a really stupid idea. Commercially, socially, ethically, practically, whatever. There isn't a level it isn't stupid on.

If you want tougher immigration laws then go for it. Leave the EU, only let in highly qualified professionals or nobody at all. Whatever.

But once people are actually in the country? Hire the best person for the job and nobody else. If someone wants to work and can do a good job then I don't care if they're born in Somerset or Somalia.

You can't be horrified by "politically correct" positive discrimination and then support it if it's a bit more nationalistic.

Surely it doesn't matter if you're a soft liberal cheese eater or a militantly entrenched ultra capitalist you want to hire the best person available and sod their place of birth?

Whatever your view on immigration, once "they" are in the horse has bolted. Forget the stable door, go get your horse.

He is not saying they will implement a law forcing people to employ British people ahead of better qualified foreigners, of course any employer would want the best person for the job, but there are low skilled jobs out there where there isn't a 'best' candidate. In those cases why should employers feel forced into employing foreign nationals for the sake of equality over a local lad?

Looking at the bigger picture the more British people that are employed the better off we will be.

[Guest MattP]

I'd hazard a guess that a lot of these voters are now part of a floating voter group slightly inclined towards labour and very unlikely yo vote LD again, I had a chat with an LD peer who was involved in the coalition negotiations and he agreed that tactical voting for the LD's is going to be badly hit.

 

I think the last bit is stating the obvious. As for the bloded bit, the Maths for that opinion just don't work out.

 

Labour got 30% of the vote in 2010 - The Lib Dems got 24% - The Lib Dem vote is now at somewhere between 6-7% and Labour's 32-33% - at the same UKIP have gone from 3% to 15% and Greens from 1% to 9%.

 

Even allowing for a small flow of Labour voters to the Greens and UKIP - It's pretty clear far more Lib Dem voters from 2010 have gone to the Greens or UKIP than back to the Labour party.

 

Two kitchens Miliband

 

!

 

The smear job on Farage is just tiresome that channel 4 program was awful and failed to actually address the key concerns such as how businesses would react to us leaving the EU instead we got sensationalist bollocks.

 

Blimey, if you're getting sick of the smears on UKIP it's clearly gone way too far!

 

I don't even watch them anymore, I find the whole thing pathetic to be honest now and I still can't believe they think it actually helps the cause.

 

But once people are actually in the country? Hire the best person for the job and nobody else. If someone wants to work and can do a good job then I don't care if they're born in Somerset or Somalia.

 

Absolutely, the best person for the job should be employed so on that basis we shouldn't have to force people to employ on the basis of race, religion like we do now.

 

Employers should be allowed to employ whoever they want though in my opinion, that's a free society.

[bovril]

He is not saying they will implement a law forcing people to employ British people ahead of better qualified foreigners, of course any employer would want the best person for the job, but there are low skilled jobs out there where there isn't a 'best' candidate. In those cases why should employers feel forced into employing foreign nationals for the sake of equality over a local lad?

Looking at the bigger picture the more British people that are employed the better off we will be.

 

If employers employ foreigners for low skilled jobs it's not because of 'equality', they don't feel forced to do it. Do people think if we left the EU and got rid of race discrimination laws our employers would suddenly start benevolently employing local lads on a decent wage? If we couldn't get cheap labour into the country we'd send the jobs abroad.

[Guest MattP]

If employers employ foreigners for low skilled jobs it's not because of 'equality', they don't feel forced to do it. Do people think if we left the EU and got rid of race discrimination laws our employers would suddenly start benevolently employing local lads on a decent wage? If we couldn't get cheap labour into the country we'd send the jobs abroad.

 

I can't wait to see how you manage to send a strawberry picking job abroad.

[Finnegan]

Hire the best person for the job, exactly. Why should there be positive discrimination based on race?

There shouldn't in the slightest.

But Farage is arguing that an employer should be able to choose a British candidate only because they are British.

That's pretty ****ing stupid from both an ethical and business point of view.

[Captain...]

Blimey, if you're getting sick of the smears on UKIP it's clearly gone way too far!

I don't even watch them anymore, I find the whole thing pathetic to be honest now and I still can't believe they think it actually helps the cause.

I actually quite like Farage and think he has done a great job in stimulating interest in politics I disagree with him on his view of the EU and i think that his refusal to attend and affect change on the EU while he is an MEP is a missed opportunity for him and not one that shows him in a good light. It also can't be denied that his party attract people with racist views, in the same way Millwall attract a lot of racist scum as fans doesn't mean that Holloway (or whoever gets the job) is racist. They have to vote for someone, and I don't see Farage as pandering to the racist vote.

[Finnegan]

He is not saying they will implement a law forcing people to employ British people ahead of better qualified foreigners, of course any employer would want the best person for the job, but there are low skilled jobs out there where there isn't a 'best' candidate. In those cases why should employers feel forced into employing foreign nationals for the sake of equality over a local lad?

Looking at the bigger picture the more British people that are employed the better off we will be.

Let's not get in to job snobbery here. Low skill doesn't mean you'd employ Lamby over Hercules. There's always a best candidate.

You don't need a skill or training to be punctual and hard working.

[Captain...]

If employers employ foreigners for low skilled jobs it's not because of 'equality', they don't feel forced to do it. Do people think if we left the EU and got rid of race discrimination laws our employers would suddenly start benevolently employing local lads on a decent wage? If we couldn't get cheap labour into the country we'd send the jobs abroad.

If your argument is that we are paying foreigners less than the minimum wage for unskilled work instead of local lads on a decent wage, then it is a separate point and one that UKIP should be campaigning on. The exploitation of cheap foreign labour is illegal and should not be allowed to happen, how you control or regulate it I don't know. If we find foreign nationals working here illegally is that grounds to expel them from the country?

That has probably done more damage than all the legal migrant workers coming here and paying tax.

[Rincewind]

If I was being operated on I would want the surgeon to have the necessary skill and training to carry it out regardless of their enthusiasm or turning up for time.  On a less extreme level the same goes for a car mechanic, painter and decorator house builder and an accountant.

The one that gets a job is normally a person who has sufficient knowledge on how to do it.

[bovril]

I can't wait to see how you manage to send a strawberry picking job abroad.

 

I can't wait to see the Lincolnshire farmers' faces when you tell them they have to start paying a living wage to local unemployed.

 

If your argument is that we are paying foreigners less than the minimum wage for unskilled work instead of local lads on a decent wage, then it is a separate point and one that UKIP should be campaigning on.

 

All parties could. But they all support the same neo-liberal system that encourages this to happen.

[Captain...]

Let's not get in to job snobbery here. Low skill doesn't mean you'd employ Lamby over Hercules. There's always a best candidate.

You don't need a skill or training to be punctual and hard working.

Depends, if I don't employ Lamby then that is another British kid on the dole resigned to a life outside the system living on benefits for the rest of his miserable sexless existence.

If I don't employ Hercules and he doesn't find a job here he will move to another part of the country, to another country, or go back to Greece. Hercules will find a job the nature of migrant workers is they move to where work is and when that work dries up they move on. That is the whole point of the freedom of movement in the EU when there is a demand for workers it can be met easily. The problem with the UK is we don't have that mentality and we don't have the language skills and we live on an Island.

If we don't employ British kids like Lamby then who the fvck will?

[Guest MattP]

I actually quite like Farage and think he has done a great job in stimulating interest in politics I disagree with him on his view of the EU and i think that his refusal to attend and affect change on the EU while he is an MEP is a missed opportunity for him and not one that shows him in a good light. It also can't be denied that his party attract people with racist views, in the same way Millwall attract a lot of racist scum as fans doesn't mean that Holloway (or whoever gets the job) is racist. They have to vote for someone, and I don't see Farage as pandering to the racist vote.

 

Of course, given UKIP have been pretty much the only party that is prepared to talk about immigration in the public eye they are going to attract all sorts, they've done the best they can (i.e banning everyone with ex EDL, BNP NF membership etc) but of course a few slip though the knot. FLabour have many ex BNP councillors and no one bats an eyelid, they even have an ex BNP member as mayor in Blackburn.

His attendance in the EU is poor yes but what can he realistically do? You can't change it, groups have tried that in the past and they have no chance of doing so. The project of an EU superstate is the aim and the vast majority of the people in there subcribe to that view, he fins it difficult to even form a group these days as they push the membership criteria to form one as large as possible to try and stop people changing it, so much so this time they had to align themselves with a far-right MP. That's democracy in the EU - everyone gets a fair say providing you have support from 8 other countries as well

 

He only turns up really to get his speeches on youtube which are watched by a lot of people and that have more impact than any vote could. (His one this week is good actually about Juncker's call for an 'EU army' - the thing Nick Clegg said 12 months ago was scaremongering - yet again Clegg either lying for his pro EU stance or just completely out the loop).

[Benji]

Depends, if I don't employ Lamby then that is another British kid on the dole resigned to a life outside the system living on benefits for the rest of his miserable sexless existence.

If I don't employ Hercules and he doesn't find a job here he will move to another part of the country, to another country, or go back to Greece. Hercules will find a job the nature of migrant workers is they move to where work is and when that work dries up they move on. That is the whole point of the freedom of movement in the EU when there is a demand for workers it can be met easily. The problem with the UK is we don't have that mentality and we don't have the language skills and we live on an Island.

If we don't employ British kids like Lamby then who the fvck will?

[Guest MattP]

I know you don't like the BBC, but this is a poll of polls, using data from all the main compilers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/poll-tracker

Which ever poll you select, Labour are hardly dropping month by month, even in one that has the Tories at 36% and Labour 32% (the biggest gap) it's been pretty flat around the mid to low 30's since October. Both parties have to be fair.

 

Sorry mate I forgot to reply to this, you are right as well. Labour's vote is actually holding firm this year after a consistent slide for the couple of years before.

 

[RobHawk]

Does anyone in this thread understand what positive discrimination actually is?

[Jimothy]

Does anyone in this thread understand what positive discrimination actually is?

 

Is it when you tell a black man to **** off, but you do it with a smile on your face?

[RobHawk]

Is it when you tell a black man to **** off, but you do it with a smile on your face?

It should be!

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

He is not saying they will implement a law forcing people to employ British people ahead of better qualified foreigners, of course any employer would want the best person for the job, but there are low skilled jobs out there where there isn't a 'best' candidate. In those cases why should employers feel forced into employing foreign nationals for the sake of equality over a local lad?

Looking at the bigger picture the more British people that are employed the better off we will be.

This.

[Sir Fynwy]

I think the last bit is stating the obvious. As for the bloded bit, the Maths for that opinion just don't work out.

Labour got 30% of the vote in 2010 - The Lib Dems got 24% - The Lib Dem vote is now at somewhere between 6-7% and Labour's 32-33% - at the same UKIP have gone from 3% to 15% and Greens from 1% to 9%.

Even allowing for a small flow of Labour voters to the Greens and UKIP - It's pretty clear far more Lib Dem voters from 2010 have gone to the Greens or UKIP than back to the Labour party.

!

Blimey, if you're getting sick of the smears on UKIP it's clearly gone way too far!

I don't even watch them anymore, I find the whole thing pathetic to be honest now and I still can't believe they think it actually helps the cause.

Absolutely, the best person for the job should be employed so on that basis we shouldn't have to force people to employ on the basis of race, religion like we do now.

Employers should be allowed to employ whoever they want though in my opinion, that's a free society.

You maths only makes sense if the the only group tactically voting LD were Labour, last election lots of swing voters from all sides voted LD because they believed the hype that the LD's were becoming a 3rd force, the reality was they became a poodle to one of the main parties and now those swing voters are casting a much wider net.

[davieG]

UKIP would do a post-election deal with a potential minority Conservative government if there is an EU referendum in 2015, Nigel Farage has said.

In extracts from his memoirs in the Daily Telegraph, the UKIP leader ruled out a formal coalition, saying voters would see it as "selling out".

But he said he would agree to a pact to prop up a Tory government in return for an EU referendum before Christmas.

David Cameron has promised a referendum in 2017 if his party is elected.

In his new book The Purple Revolution, which is being serialised by the Telegraph, Mr Farage issued the prime minister with a four-point ultimatum on Britain's position in Europe.

In exchange, he said UKIP would back a minority Conservative government on key votes such as the Budget.

A Tory/UKIP/DUP three-way deal was a "possible scenario" as UKIP and the DUP (Democratic Unionist Party) shared a Eurosceptic position, he added.

"UKIP and the Northern Irish would take a similar role to that of the Liberal Democrats now," he said.

"Now the party has moved on from its sectarian approach to issues, we have developed a mutual respect for each other," he said.

The DUP, which is currently the fourth largest party in the Commons with eight seats, has said an EU referendum would be a part of any deal it made in the event of a hung Parliament.

'No wiggle room'

The UKIP leader said the terms of his deal with the Tories would be "very precise and simple".

"I want a full and fair referendum to be held in 2015 to allow Britons to vote on being in or out of the European Union," he said.

He said the wording of the question put to voters was "hugely" important, and as a "starting point" proposed: "Do you wish to be a free, independent sovereign democracy?"

Under his plans for the referendum, the four million EU nationals living in Britain on foreign passports - including his German wife Kirsten - would not be allowed to vote.

He said he would demand strict spending limits on campaigning, and an ombudsman to "police coverage" of any referendum.

It would be possible to hold the referendum in 2015 "given that it only takes a few weeks to launch and organise a referendum," he said.

"There would be no wiggle room for 're-negotiation' somewhere down the line," he added.

David Cameron has previously ruled out a post-election pact with UKIP, saying he was fighting for an "all-out win"

Mr Farage went on to say that if Mr Cameron agreed to the terms, there was "no question that UKIP would not do a deal".

He said he did not want a seat in cabinet or a ministerial title because "apart from anything else, most of the people sitting around that cabinet table are ghastly".

While he admitted "a vast number of them (Tories) hate us and I dislike them", he said he could work with Conservative chief whip Michael Gove.

Last May, Mr Cameron said there would be no pact with UKIP after UKIP's gains in council elections.

"We are the Conservative Party. We don't do pacts and deals. We are fighting all out for an all-out win at the next election," he said at the time.

The prime minister has promised a vote on whether to sever ties with Brussels by the end of 2017 if he remains in No 10 after the general election.

He has faced some pressure from sections of the Tory party and the business community to hold an earlier vote.

[Strokes]

And there it is, my vote sewn up. Cheers nige

[LJS]

UKIP will have nowhere near enough MPs to support a Tory minority government.

 

The next parliament looks like being a right mess. Let's take a look at the polls. At the minute the two main parties are neck and next, a couple of decimals either side of 33 points. UKIP are on 14-5, the Lib Dems 7-8, the Greens on 6 and falling back.

 

The Tories won by 11 points in England last time around. At the moment the polls show anything from a five point Tory lead to Labour being level. Either way that means a significant seat loss for the Tories from Labour, so less seats for them than last time. The Tories and Labour will both gain from the Lib Dems with the Tories doing particularly well in this regard in the South West. Labour's gain in England is likely to be offset somewhat  by huge losses to the SNP in Scotland but they'll gain a couple in Wales. Again, this is all based on current polling and not on any personal preference of mine; I'll be voting Lib Dem, to declare my interest.

 

The Greens will keep Brighton Pavilion. UKIP will keep hold of Clacton and Farage will gain South Thanet. I'll be generous and say Reckless will keep hold of his seat although polling suggests it will be more difficult than he'd like. Let's be nice and give them Skegness as well. 

 

The make up of the Commons, on current polling, is likely to be something like this:

 

Conservatives: 260-270

Labour: 280-290

SNP: 40-50

Lib Dems: 20-30

UKIP: 2-4

Greens: 1

Then a load of others.

 

It's going to be a mess. Only Labour are likely to be able to form a majority government and only then with the SNP which I don't think they'll do on anything more than a confidence and supply basis. The polls haven't shifted significantly for a while. The Tories have seen a small uptick. It looked more than that this time last week but they've fallen back again in recent days and the polls have reverted to the established norm. There just isn't that much fluidity. I expect to see an improvement in Tory fortunes following the budget but I can see this being offset by an improvement in UKIP fortunes as Farage gets more exposure during the campaign. This parliament is going to be very hung.

[Buce]

And there it is, my vote sewn up. Cheers nige

What constituency are you in, Strokes?

[davieG]

Manifesto watch: Where parties stand on key issues

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29642613