The Railway Man Posted 16 January 2015 Posted 16 January 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30848689 A big congratulations to Charlie Hebdo. You were in the limelight of the whole world, you had a chance to unite people, hell people were uniting with 'Je Suis Charlie' without the need of your assistance. But your decision to again target muslims, instead of unite people, is quite frankly disgraceful. Yes, because the way to show moral fibre to people who murder you for your beliefs is to completely bow and surrender to what they want in the fact of intimidation and violence. You are very idiot.
MooseBreath Posted 16 January 2015 Posted 16 January 2015 The irony with much of this censorship is that it's incredibly insulting to Muslims. "I think you're too incapable to avoid purchasing a book with a pig in it." "I also think you're so emotionally unstable that you'll have a breakdown if you or your child sees an image of a pig." It would piss me right off if someone took such a condescending attitude with me. Hey, that could be that line of argument we take from now on! Don't talk about making ridiculous allowances for cultural sensitivities (you racist swine, you) talk about how offensive it is to the Islamic community. They'll have a tough time responding to that! You could apply that to any situation where people take offence on behalf of others, and I wish that we would. The trouble is that it speaks to equality and personal responsibility, and nobody can gain the personal capital they desire from pretending to support the cause of people who are perceived to be at a disadvantage if we acknowledge that no such disadvantage actually exists. Classic case, champagne socialists. It should be obvious that implying that 'the poor' are unable to do anything for themselves and need state support is pretty offensive towards the poor. But champagne socialists get a lot out of pretending to be on their side. If they were to acknowledge the truth that those people are not at any disadvantage, they'd lose the benefits they get from pretending to support them. In fact pretty much the entire left wing of the political spectrum would become redundant were we to adopt this approach.
GaelicFox Posted 16 January 2015 Posted 16 January 2015 I think it's best summed up like this: Militant Christians: shoot doctors, blow up clinics, beat up gays Militant Muslims: blow up scores of innocent people, shoot cartoonists Militant Atheists: write sarcasm and satire on the Internet. And for all their claims of discrimination, the organised religious lobby still has enormous power and influence over nearly all the nation states on the planet. Militant atheists Gassed 5 million people in world war 2 And Militant atheists have murdered millions under THIER socialist beliefs in Cambodia , china , ussr , chile , Central America and the old Eastern Europe block COP your self on !!!! All men do evil , just depends that banner it's hung under , Monday religion , Tuesday oil struggle , Wednesday dictator disposing , Thursday religious cleansing , Friday tribal region .......... Atheists have been killing each other for millions of years !!!! Religious loonies only a couple of thousand
Grewks Posted 16 January 2015 Posted 16 January 2015 Yeah. Why blame people for rioting when you can blame a magazine 10,000 miles away? They should treat Islam different to every other religion in case they riot, because that's the way to defend civilisation and freedom of speech. How can you not see the point.....Muslims were not responsible for these killings, they were quite simply extremists carrying out a radical and incorrect interpretation of islam. They even killed a muslim during the attacks.... Muslims are rioting because they are being blamed for attacks which they are not responsible. If these people who carried out these attacks were muslims, carrying out islamic practices....I'm surprised you dare step foot in leicester in fear of being killed on sight.
Harry - LCFC Posted 16 January 2015 Posted 16 January 2015 Militant atheists Gassed 5 million people in world war 2 And Militant atheists have murdered millions under THIER socialist beliefs in Cambodia , china , ussr , chile , Central America and the old Eastern Europe block COP your self on !!!! All men do evil , just depends that banner it's hung under , Monday religion , Tuesday oil struggle , Wednesday dictator disposing , Thursday religious cleansing , Friday tribal region .......... Atheists have been killing each other for millions of years !!!! Religious loonies only a couple of thousand Hitler was not an atheist. Your other examples are the ones we ought to be looking at so lets do so. Suppression through mass execution was simply one method used by the USSR to maintain its authority. Power was the motivation, not atheism. Same goes for the rest of the socialist states. I've never seen any evidence that suggests they killed people because of their lack of belief in God. "Religious loonies only a couple of thousand" is not correct either. Way off in fact.
Rincewind Posted 16 January 2015 Posted 16 January 2015 I think the Spanish inquisition killed of a couple of thousand alone.
bovril Posted 16 January 2015 Posted 16 January 2015 I think the Spanish inquisition killed of a couple of thousand alone. It was completely unexpected as well.
Webbo Posted 16 January 2015 Posted 16 January 2015 Hitler was not an atheist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler
Smudge Posted 16 January 2015 Posted 16 January 2015 Militant atheists Gassed 5 million people in world war 2 And Militant atheists have murdered millions under THIER socialist beliefs in Cambodia , china , ussr , chile , Central America and the old Eastern Europe block COP your self on !!!! All men do evil , just depends that banner it's hung under , Monday religion , Tuesday oil struggle , Wednesday dictator disposing , Thursday religious cleansing , Friday tribal region .......... Atheists have been killing each other for millions of years !!!! Religious loonies only a couple of thousand Astecs, Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, Celts, Norse, Incas, Anglo Saxons, Israelites, Philistines, Trojans, to name a few. Most if not all paid homage to pagan Gods and a number of them marched in the name of their beliefs and gave human sacrifice. Religion has been used to control people for millennia.
Dr The Singh Posted 16 January 2015 Posted 16 January 2015 Huh!! Astecs, Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, Celts, Norse, Incas, Anglo Saxons, Israelites, Philistines, Trojans, to name a few. Most if not all paid homage to pagan Gods and marched in the name of their beliefs and gave sacrifice. Religion has been used to control people for millennia. I'm sure if the religion wasn't there, there actions would have still happened on another guise
Harry - LCFC Posted 16 January 2015 Posted 16 January 2015 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler Gave it a decent read and it doesn't give a clear answer either way. The one thing it did show was that, and this is what really matters, he didn't act as he did because of any atheistic beliefs. He refers to Aryan supremacy, extreme nationalism and, occasionally, God to justify his actions.
Dr The Singh Posted 16 January 2015 Posted 16 January 2015 Gave it a decent read and it doesn't give a clear answer either way. The one thing it did show was that, and this is what really matters, he didn't act as he did because of any atheistic beliefs. He refers to Aryan supremacy, extreme nationalism and, occasionally, God to justify his actions. Aryan is a race
Smudge Posted 16 January 2015 Posted 16 January 2015 I'm sure if the religion wasn't there, there actions would have still happened on another guise No doubt Singy but religion does have that je ne sais quoi, the afterlife. As I near it, I'm hedging my bets
Dr The Singh Posted 16 January 2015 Posted 16 January 2015 No doubt Singy but religion does have that je ne sais quoi, the afterlife. As I near it, I'm hedging my bets Yep, some religions do use entry into the after life as means commitment to it!!!
Dr The Singh Posted 16 January 2015 Posted 16 January 2015 Ok I didn't mean in it, in a negative way, but Hitler used the Aryan supremacy theory to form a cult like religion to enforce there so called supremacy
Grewks Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 Hitler was not an atheist. Your other examples are the ones we ought to be looking at so lets do so. Suppression through mass execution was simply one method used by the USSR to maintain its authority. Power was the motivation, not atheism. Same goes for the rest of the socialist states. I've never seen any evidence that suggests they killed people because of their lack of belief in God. "Religious loonies only a couple of thousand" is not correct either. Way off in fact. The 3 people responsible for the deaths in Paris were not Muslims..but that doesn't stop the media from labelling them as such. As for Hitler...Well he didn't have a religion nor did his actions conform to any sort of religion, so really he was an atheist. I mean, he didn't just target jews, but black's, foreigners live in Germany, elderly, disabled, gyspys etc.... Hatred for all the above groups doesn't conform to any religion we know, at least not in modern times. All religions promote respect to older generations/relatives, so Hitler's ideology cannot be grouped to a religion.
Harry - LCFC Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 The 3 people responsible for the deaths in Paris were not Muslims..but that doesn't stop the media from labelling them as such. As for Hitler...Well he didn't have a religion nor did his actions conform to any sort of religion, so really he was an atheist. I mean, he didn't just target jews, but black's, foreigners live in Germany, elderly, disabled, gyspys etc.... Hatred for all the above groups doesn't conform to any religion we know, at least not in modern times. All religions promote respect to older generations/relatives, so Hitler's ideology cannot be grouped to a religion. Ridiculous, ridiculous statement to make. I can't continue this conversation if you're going to try and argue against undeniable facts like that. Accept that you're wrong or please don't respond. I'm never normally this abrupt but there's no other option with you. I wasn't arguing that Hitler's actions were motivated by religion either btw. God may have been in the background but it certainly wasn't what drove him.
Rincewind Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 Atheism/secularism does not encourage hate towards others.Secularism is the respect for all regardless of faith. Hitler was just a power mad dictator whose sole aim was to gain take over Europe.He used a God when it suited him the same as all leaders in wars. They say they have God on their side without specifying which one.The crusades is a good example of a religious war.
z-layrex Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 My viewpoint is simple. If you believe in god (any god), you're a ****ing idiot and I have no time for you. It's that blunt.
Grewks Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 Ridiculous, ridiculous statement to make. I can't continue this conversation if you're going to try and argue against undeniable facts like that. Accept that you're wrong or please don't respond. I'm never normally this abrupt but there's no other option with you. I wasn't arguing that Hitler's actions were motivated by religion either btw. God may have been in the background but it certainly wasn't what drove him. Really? During the attack on Charlie Hebdo, they told a female secretary not to worry, they wouldn't kill her because 'Muslims don't murder women'......30 seconds later they murdered a female cartoonist. Also....Under Islamic belief, you cannot kill a fellow muslim, they did that aswell. These people were not muslims, they were quite simply extremists.
Webbo Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 Stalin and Mao were both atheists and they killed far more than Hitler.
Merging Cultures Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 Religious and secularist murder/genocide top trumps?
leicsmac Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 Stalin and Mao were both atheists and they killed far more than Hitler. Yup. They didn't believe in an established god so they invented one. Themselves and the 'Party'. Ditto the Kims in North Korea. The ideology that followed was the same as much organised religion has used in the past and still uses (less often) today. The lust for power and treating other people as things always needs a justification if you're going to carry out out on a wide scale. Like I said, either a god, a man who thinks he is one, or both.
Webbo Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 Religious and secularist murder/genocide top trumps? I'm neither I just don't like simplistic arguments that blame one group of total strangers and absolve another.
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