Merging Cultures Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 I'm neither I just don't like simplistic arguments that blame one group of total strangers and absolve another.I agree, but this thread has become a point scoring exercise of the most morbid sort.
Mike Oxlong Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 My view is simple. There are inherently good people and inherently bad people. Things such as upbringing and physiology will have an effect. Religion is a vehicle for the good to do good and the bad to do bad.
leicsmac Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 I'm neither I just don't like simplistic arguments that blame one group of total strangers and absolve another. Which is also the point of the people saying that it's not just Muslims who have the monopoly on heinous acts.
leicsmac Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 My view is simple. There are inherently good people and inherently bad people. Things such as upbringing and physiology will have an effect. Religion is a vehicle for the good to do good and the bad to do bad. Exactly. Though environment also has a big factor to play.
Webbo Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 Which is also the point of the people saying that it's not just Muslims who have the monopoly on heinous acts. I appreciate that. It's the "religion is to blame for everything bad, atheists are harmless" statements that I don't like.
Rincewind Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 Of course there are atheists that do horrendous things but when caught they do not say no god spoke to me told me to do it
leicsmac Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 I appreciate that. It's the "religion is to blame for everything bad, atheists are harmless" statements that I don't like. Fair enough. I don't like generalisations either. Brutal ideology is brutal ideology, no matter what name it's carried out in.
Charl91 Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 Of course there are atheists that do horrendous things but when caught they do not say no god spoke to me told me to do it Maybe, but that doesn't actually make it any better though.
GaelicFox Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 Hitler was not an atheist. Your other examples are the ones we ought to be looking at so lets do so. Suppression through mass execution was simply one method used by the USSR to maintain its authority. Power was the motivation, not atheism. Same goes for the rest of the socialist states. I've never seen any evidence that suggests they killed people because of their lack of belief in God. "Religious loonies only a couple of thousand" is not correct either. Way off in fact. Hitler repeatedly stated that Nazism was a secular ideology founded on science, which in the long run could not "co-exist with religion, he renounced his faith with Gorbbels and became an atheist ...Fact Communism is just an extension of a godless society or an atheist state ...subjective opinion And I was referring to the modern extremist loonies , Muslims and Christians , active for 2000 and 1500 years respectively ...Fact
GaelicFox Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 Stalin and Mao were both atheists and they killed far more than Hitler. Much much more
GaelicFox Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 Really? During the attack on Charlie Hebdo, they told a female secretary not to worry, they wouldn't kill her because 'Muslims don't murder women'......30 seconds later they murdered a female cartoonist. Also....Under Islamic belief, you cannot kill a fellow muslim, they did that aswell. These people were not muslims, they were quite simply extremists. Loonies using a false ideology to justify what really matters to them THIER own sectarian struggles and issues with the mainly dictatorships that run middle Eastern states
GaelicFox Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 My viewpoint is simple. If you believe in god (any god), you're a ****ing idiot and I have no time for you. It's that blunt. My view point Is only so one lacking in intelligence would expouse such rubbish One must appreciate and respect everyone's beliefs and life structures Your view point helped spawn a facist ideology that near destroyed Europe
1993fox Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 Loonies using a false ideology to justify what really matters to them THIER own sectarian struggles and issues with the mainly dictatorships that run middle Eastern states Except extremism isn't a false ideology in Islam. The Quran frequently promotes alienation and murder of non-Muslims, in terms even more extreme than how the Bible condemns non-Christians to Hell.
GaelicFox Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 Astecs, Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, Celts, Norse, Incas, Anglo Saxons, Israelites, Philistines, Trojans, to name a few. Most if not all paid homage to pagan Gods and a number of them marched in the name of their beliefs and gave human sacrifice. Religion has been used to control people for millennia. Yes it's a fair point , but cave men were wiping out other cave men over a cave or set of caves , I was actually referring to the modern phenomenon of extremism and its roots are no longer than 2000 or so years ago But your point is correct , religion is often a cloak to try cover evil deeds Much like natural and commercial economics are a cloak to cover the facts that people still die of poverty My grandad said to me as a boy , never trust a man who spends many hours on his knees praying , as he must have many many evils to be begging forgiveness for ...we was an atheist grandad I prefer to view it that the man with much to pray for is in fact giving thanks for the safety of true faith I'm actually an agnostic but respect people with true faith and love for all mankind Except forest fans
Carl the Llama Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 Not sure if it deserves its own thread or not, but the troops are out over here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30860064 I imagine the strongest presence will be in Antwerp with its massive Jewish population.
Rincewind Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 According to a secular magazine I receive Catholic priests that are defrocked are punished by giving them secular status or whatever the French name is for it. That is wrong in my opinion because secularism means respect for peoples beliefs and does not preach hatred. Did you know that a priest that has been defrocked can still carry out ceremonies like marriage and death?Once ordained always a priest.
GaelicFox Posted 17 January 2015 Posted 17 January 2015 Except extremism isn't a false ideology in Islam. The Quran frequently promotes alienation and murder of non-Muslims, in terms even more extreme than how the Bible condemns non-Christians to Hell. Interpretation , suggest you have a look at the Old Testament All these books have mad shite in them I'm not here to defend Islam
Rincewind Posted 19 January 2015 Posted 19 January 2015 Don't know if this will interest anyone. It's a documentary about the Paris shootings. It's from RT TV.There is also a documentary on the RSA and other topics. http://rt.com/shows/redacted-tonight-summary/223591-paris-attack-economy-us/
EnderbyFox Posted 21 January 2015 Author Posted 21 January 2015 France attacks: 'Hero' Lassana Bathily gets citizenship A Malian-born Muslim employee who hid customers from an Islamist gunman at a Paris kosher supermarket this month has been granted French nationality. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30905262
Darkon84 Posted 21 January 2015 Posted 21 January 2015 France attacks: 'Hero' Lassana Bathily gets citizenship A Malian-born Muslim employee who hid customers from an Islamist gunman at a Paris kosher supermarket this month has been granted French nationality. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30905262 France: Look, look! We do like muslims! . Was the +1 for that post genuine? It's obviously to offset whats been happening and is just a gesture. Or maybe I'm just being a massive sceptic? Reminds me of a scene from the film 'Crash', where District Attorney Brendan Fraser is trying to offset the backlash of getting held up by black men, so decides he needs to find a black man to give a medal to. Unfortunately, the closest they can get is an Iraqi named Saddam
Merging Cultures Posted 21 January 2015 Posted 21 January 2015 France: Look, look! We do like muslims! . Was the +1 for that post genuine? It's obviously to offset whats been happening and is just a gesture. Or maybe I'm just being a massive sceptic? Reminds me of a scene from the film 'Crash', where District Attorney Brendan Fraser is trying to offset the backlash of getting held up by black men, so decides he needs to find a black man to give a medal to. Unfortunately, the closest they can get is an Iraqi named Saddam That's a disappointing response. The guy saved peoples lives. (I must admit, my first thought was... he'll have to pay tax now!)
Babylon Posted 21 January 2015 Posted 21 January 2015 France: Look, look! We do like muslims! . Think they have gone a bit OTT with the hero stuff, he's hardly Oskar Schindler.
Bellend Sebastian Posted 21 January 2015 Posted 21 January 2015 I don't think there's any harm in drawing attention to what was a pretty selfless act anyway, regardless of what religion the bloke is, and well, you know, not everyone in the world is as well informed and open-minded about stuff as the FT membership, so the fact that it contradicts the narrative that all Muslims are complete sods is a bonus. I must admit I was a bit surprised that a Muslim would be working in a Jewish supermarket, but what do I know
bovril Posted 21 January 2015 Posted 21 January 2015 Think they have gone a bit OTT with the hero stuff, he's hardly Oskar Schindler. And of course you would do exactly what he did in a similar situation.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.