The Isometric PC CRPG Thread.

[Finnegan]

Wasteland 3 soon too 

[The People's Hero]

Starting Pillars of Eternity - but on PS4. Am I mad?
 

Gone for MEDIUM difficulty. Don't know if I should have gone for hard?

[Carl the Llama]

BG3 available for early access as of 2 days ago.  Thought I'd post in here for anybody else who's been keeping tabs on the game and got blindsided by it.

[Finnegan]

I follow it on steam but its very, very early access. They've said it'll be in that state for a year if not more. Its currently just act one and according to initial comments seems immensely poorly optimised. 

 

I'll swerve it most likely until launch. I can't imagine it being a bad game at all tbh, given its basically just going to be a an official D&D campaign plugged in to the already excellent DOS engine. 

[kingcarr21]

So ive recently acquired a Gaming PC and ive always loved an RPG but always played on console. Reading some of the comments in this thread has got me thinking these games are right up my street.

 

Which game would you guys recommend me to start with?

[Finnegan]

12 minutes ago, kingcarr21 said:

So ive recently acquired a Gaming PC and ive always loved an RPG but always played on console. Reading some of the comments in this thread has got me thinking these games are right up my street.

 

Which game would you guys recommend me to start with?

 

Assuming we're talking fantasy over sci fi / post apocalypse then there's two main powerhouses that have essentially dominated the reboot. 

 

Divinity Original Sin 2 is probably the best PCRPG gameplay of all time. It is however a bit of a mixed bag in storytelling terms and the plot is a bit 7/10.

 

Pillars of Eternity however is an epic, novel like masterpiece of storytelling that commits to the old "real time with pause" gameplay that made the classics popular (they've tried to force in a turn based mode in reaction to the popularity of DOS but its mostly shit.) 

 

For me, they're both 10/10 games and two of my favourites of the last ten years, if story is more important to you and you've got the patience to stick with something that's deliberately quite deep and philosophical, try Pillars. 

 

If fun and engaging gameplay matters more to you than give DOS2 a go. It's a sequel in the loosest sense, BTW, don't worry about playing the first yet. 

 

Obviously the alternative is to start with the classic, the Baldurs Gate series has been remastered and its a little hard for those games to be "dated" to be honest because the art style will always age well. The story is arguably better than both of the above but the gameplay mechanics are a bit more simplistic. 

 

 

[kingcarr21]

11 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Assuming we're talking fantasy over sci fi / post apocalypse then there's two main powerhouses that have essentially dominated the reboot. 

 

Divinity Original Sin 2 is probably the best PCRPG gameplay of all time. It is however a bit of a mixed bag in storytelling terms and the plot is a bit 7/10.

 

Pillars of Eternity however is an epic, novel like masterpiece of storytelling that commits to the old "real time with pause" gameplay that made the classics popular (they've tried to force in a turn based mode in reaction to the popularity of DOS but its mostly shit.) 

 

For me, they're both 10/10 games and two of my favourites of the last ten years, if story is more important to you and you've got the patience to stick with something that's deliberately quite deep and philosophical, try Pillars. 

 

If fun and engaging gameplay matters more to you than give DOS2 a go. It's a sequel in the loosest sense, BTW, don't worry about playing the first yet. 

 

Obviously the alternative is to start with the classic, the Baldurs Gate series has been remastered and its a little hard for those games to be "dated" to be honest because the art style will always age well. The story is arguably better than both of the above but the gameplay mechanics are a bit more simplistic. 

 

 

For me it has to have a great story. Ive always preferred turn based fighting but im open to anything. 

 

Are these available on Steam? If so ill take a look and see which one peaks my interest. Thanks for the recommendation

[Finnegan]

I'm probably being a bit harsh on the divinity story, it didn't grab me as much as Pillars but it definitely isn't crap. 

 

If your preference is turn based combat, I'd definitely go with DOS. I can't stress enough how enjoyable it is to play and I think the reviews and pretty much every other regular poster in this thread will back that up. 

 

They're on steam yeah. 

 

Edit: said completely the wrong game. 

Edited 8 October 2020 by Finnegan

[Trav Le Bleu]

9 hours ago, Finnegan said:

I follow it on steam but its very, very early access. They've said it'll be in that state for a year if not more. Its currently just act one and according to initial comments seems immensely poorly optimised. 

 

I'll swerve it most likely until launch. I can't imagine it being a bad game at all tbh, given its basically just going to be a an official D&D campaign plugged in to the already excellent DOS engine. 

Remember when games were tested by paid in-house employees and came as a finished product with few, if any, bugs?

Edited 8 October 2020 by Trav Le Bleu

[Finnegan]

51 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Remember when games were tested by paid in-house employees and came as a finished product with few, if any, bugs?

 

I feel that's probably a bit revisionist to be honest, I'm not entirely sure games used to be released bug free, patches have been around for as long as I've been gaming. 

 

I think it's also a bit unfair on Larian, an independent studio who publish their own games, who have less than a quarter of the employees someone like CD Projekt Red (also an independent studio that publish their own games) does and not the backing of a giant like Microsoft, which Obsidian does. 

 

Plus, I think it's overlooking the fact that a lot of people actively enjoy playing early access games and get a kick out of it, I paid extra in my pledge for early access to Pillars and Wasteland 3 voluntarily. Larian have made it perfectly clear off the bat that this is an alpha build as not to mislead anyone, they've also made a point of saying that early access doesn't just let them bug fix but lets fans give feedback while the game is under development so that they can have some input to the outcome. 

 

Finally, they're charging no more or no less, these folks are just buying the game early for the same amount I'll be buying it next year. 

 

This is the company that released a directors edition or complete edition, whatever it was called, version of their game with loads of quality of life fixes and some extra content and gave it for free to everyone that already owned the game. It's a company that's produced loads of "gift bags" of free content post-release as they continue to work on DOS where other companies would try to sell it as DLC. 

 

I don't mean to come across all fan boy, I've not drunk any kool aid and I don't normally get all gushy in defence of my favourite games companies or get tribal about it like that weird kid in the PlayStation thread, but if any developer in the industry deserves our love it probably is Larian. 

Edited 8 October 2020 by Finnegan

[Trav Le Bleu]

3 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

I feel that's probably a bit revisionist to be honest, I'm not entirely sure games used to be released bug free, patches have been around for as long as I've been gaming. 

 

I think it's also a bit unfair on Larian, an independent studio who publish their own games, who have less than a quarter of the employees someone like CD Projekt Red (also an independent studio that publish their own games) does and not the backing of a giant like Microsoft, which Obsidian does. 

 

Plus, I think it's overlooking the fact that a lot of people actively enjoy playing early access games and get a kick out of it, I paid extra in my pledge for early access to Pillars and Wasteland 3 voluntarily. Larian have made it perfectly clear off the bat that this is an alpha build as not to mislead anyone, they've also made a point of saying that early access doesn't just let them bug fix but lets fans give feedback while the game is under development so that they can have some input to the outcome. 

 

Finally, they're charging no more or no less, these folks are just buying the game early for the same amount I'll be buying it next year. 

 

This is the company that released a directors edition or complete edition, whatever it was called, version of their game with loads of quality of life fixes and some extra content and gave it for free to everyone that already owned the game. It's a company that's produced loads of "gift bags" of free content post-release as they continue to work on DOS where other companies would try to sell it as DLC. 

 

I don't mean to come across all fan boy, I've not drunk any kool aid and I don't normally get all gushy in defence of my favourite games companies or get tribal about it like that weird kid in the PlayStation thread, but if any developer in the industry deserves our love it probably is Larian. 

Wasn't having a go at this developer in general, just the industry in general.

 

I just find it bizarre that anyone would want to be an unpaid play-tester.

[Carl the Llama]

3 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

I feel that's probably a bit revisionist to be honest, I'm not entirely sure games used to be released bug free, patches have been around for as long as I've been gaming. 

 

I think it's also a bit unfair on Larian, an independent studio who publish their own games, who have less than a quarter of the employees someone like CD Projekt Red (also an independent studio that publish their own games) does and not the backing of a giant like Microsoft, which Obsidian does. 

 

Plus, I think it's overlooking the fact that a lot of people actively enjoy playing early access games and get a kick out of it, I paid extra in my pledge for early access to Pillars and Wasteland 3 voluntarily. Larian have made it perfectly clear off the bat that this is an alpha build as not to mislead anyone, they've also made a point of saying that early access doesn't just let them bug fix but lets fans give feedback while the game is under development so that they can have some input to the outcome. 

 

Finally, they're charging no more or no less, these folks are just buying the game early for the same amount I'll be buying it next year. 

 

This is the company that released a directors edition or complete edition, whatever it was called, version of their game with loads of quality of life fixes and some extra content and gave it for free to everyone that already owned the game. It's a company that's produced loads of "gift bags" of free content post-release as they continue to work on DOS where other companies would try to sell it as DLC. 

 

I don't mean to come across all fan boy, I've not drunk any kool aid and I don't normally get all gushy in defence of my favourite games companies or get tribal about it like that weird kid in the PlayStation thread, but if any developer in the industry deserves our love it probably is Larian. 

This is the only reason I'm willing to go in on it early in the first place.  There's no way it turns out a bad investment..

[Finnegan]

9 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Wasn't having a go at this developer in general, just the industry in general.

 

I just find it bizarre that anyone would want to be an unpaid play-tester.

 

There's a lot I hate about the state or the industry right now but early access isn't really one of those things. 

 

The vast majority of early access on steam is from small, often tiny, companies for whom Steam Early Access is basically a type of crowd funding. They need the revenue to keep the lights on while they're developing the game. 

 

Some stay in early access for literally years because its one man and his dog making a game part time whilst sustaining another job. I'm yet to see any major studio release an AAA early access. That said, public betas and test servers have also been a thing for a very, very long time and whilst I'm hesitant to compare my job to theirs, I actually work in IT project management doing software implementation and I've got to be honest, it's a very good idea. 

 

We get as many volunteer testers as we feasibly can before something goes live because the more people testing the more you find. Just, why wouldn't you? 

 

Edited 9 October 2020 by Finnegan

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Wasn't having a go at this developer in general, just the industry in general.

 

I just find it bizarre that anyone would want to be an unpaid play-tester.

I bought BG3 early access for three main reasons:

 

1. The game is already great and will only get better. There's no shortage of things to do and they'll be adding to it as they go. As @Finnegan says, they've been perfectly upfront about the current state of the game, their plans for it during the course of early access and their motivations for doing it this way. Of course it's buggy and needs a fair bit of polishing but games get full releases in worse states than this pretty regularly.

 

2. I'm not paying to test their game, I'm paying to play it. I'm sure there will be people who spend a lot of time discovering and reporting bugs or finding ways to break the game but you're under no obligation to do so. If you want to do that, great. If you just want to play through it and give a bit of feedback on what you liked and what you thought could be improved or changed, also great. Even if you don't directly give any feedback at all, you're helping them balance the game through the data you're providing simply by playing it.

 

3. Buying the early access also gets you the full game when it releases, at which point I would buy it anyway. Now I also get to play the game early and be a part of the community that's helping to make it better.

 

I can see why you'd rather wait for a complete, more polished experience, or if you'd rather enjoy the full game and story in one coherent playthrough, but the advantages of early access for both developers and players aren't exactly mystifying.

[Beliall]

I dont do these kinds of game really , but a friend gifted me Disco Elysium and im bloody in love with it, absolutely amazing game. its kept me off fifa and FM most of this last week

[Guest]

Pillars of Eternity and Tyranny are both currently free on the Epic Store if that's of interest to anyone

[Zear0]

1 hour ago, Guest said:

Pillars of Eternity and Tyranny are both currently free on the Epic Store if that's of interest to anyone

Both are superb too!

[Carl the Llama]

2 hours ago, Guest said:

Pillars of Eternity and Tyranny are both currently free on the Epic Store if that's of interest to anyone

Already own Pillars on steam but I was watching something on YT the other day which spoke really highly of Tyranny and I'm yet to play so thanks for this.

[HoustonFox]

On 03/12/2020 at 13:04, Beliall said:

I dont do these kinds of game really , but a friend gifted me Disco Elysium and im bloody in love with it, absolutely amazing game. its kept me off fifa and FM most of this last week

Awesome, I just got it in the Steam sale! 

[Zear0]

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-02-25-report-says-next-dragon-age-will-now-be-single-player-only-due-to-anthems-fortunes-reversing-eas-original-plans

 

All I can is, thank god.  Needed some good news, however small, after this evenings viewing.

[dmayne7]

1 hour ago, Zear0 said:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-02-25-report-says-next-dragon-age-will-now-be-single-player-only-due-to-anthems-fortunes-reversing-eas-original-plans

 

All I can is, thank god.  Needed some good news, however small, after this evenings viewing.

This might be the thing that saves Bioware. And I actually think there multiplayer offerings in ME3 and DAI were actually surprisingly fun but the fact they are making these fully story focused games will really give them the best chance at success I think.

[Zear0]

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-04-21-star-wars-knights-of-the-old-republic-remake-developed-by-aspyr

 

Stretching the definition of the thread topic, but as close as anywhere.  I absolutely loved this game.

[Finnegan]

How do you do, fellow nerds. Who's playing Wrath of the Righteous? 

 

I'll be honest, I hesitated forever with buying Kingmaker and even now I've only got a few hours played. It got absolutely slaughtered when it first came out because it was a buggy, unplayable mess that it took them about a year or so to put right. It's apparently great now but it still made me uneasy.

 

I think I enjoy WOTR so much that I'll go back and give it a crack. 

 

But as for WOTR - from what I've read, they've fixed a lot of the QOL annoyances from the first game. I'm loving it, not gonna lie. I'm playing entirely turn based and I genuinely think I'm having near DOS levels of fun. 

 

The Pathfinder system is so immensely complex that I did have a bit of character creation paralysis (seriously, it took me about five hours to make my first character, I then restarted and have since respecced.) This might sound awful to some but it's why I love it. I love systems that have mechanical depth and it definitely does. There's a near infinite amount of viable combinations for a character and party. 

 

DOS allowed you to be pretty flexible in build but I found some (sparking swings / master of sparks cleave for example) were so overpowered that everything else felt sub optimal. 

 

But Pathfinder has so many ways to be powerful it feels great. 

 

It's also massive, like 150hrs is a standard play through massive. 

 

The voice acting, music, art is all excellent. It looks and feels fabulous. It's difficulty is also immensely customisable, from cake walk to borderline impossible with all of the presets tweakable with so many sliders you can't not find your sweet spot. 

 

There's still issues. It's not bugless and it's got a weird strategy mini game that's essential and a bit shit like Kingmaker had the kingdom manager shit that flopped. But the main core gameplay is fabulous. 

 

9/10 for me atm. Its up there with Pillars 1 and DOS 2 as the best of the revival so far. 

 

Edited 13 September 2021 by Finnegan

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Finnegan said:

How do you do, fellow nerds. Who's playing Wrath of the Righteous? 

 

I'll be honest, I hesitated forever with buying Kingmaker and even now I've only got a few hours played. It got absolutely slaughtered when it first came out because it was a buggy, unplayable mess that it took them about a year or so to put right. It's apparently great now but it still made me uneasy.

 

I think I enjoy WOTR so much that I'll go back and give it a crack. 

 

But as for WOTR - from what I've read, they've fixed a lot of the QOL annoyances from the first game. I'm loving it, not gonna lie. I'm playing entirely turn based and I genuinely think I'm having near DOS levels of fun. 

 

The Pathfinder system is so immensely complex that I did have a bit of character creation paralysis (seriously, it took me about five hours to make my first character, I then restarted and have since respecced.) This might sound awful to some but it's why I love it. I love systems that have mechanical depth and it definitely does. There's a near infinite amount of viable combinations for a character and party. 

 

DOS allowed you to be pretty flexible in build but I found some (sparking swings / master of sparks cleave for example) were so overpowered that everything else felt sub optimal. 

 

But Pathfinder has so many ways to be powerful it feels great. 

 

It's also massive, like 150hrs is a standard play through massive. 

 

The voice acting, music, art is all excellent. It looks and feels fabulous. It's difficulty is also immensely customisable, from cake walk to borderline impossible with all of the presets tweakable with so many sliders you can't not find your sweet spot. 

 

There's still issues. It's not bugless and it's got a weird strategy mini game that's essential and a bit shit like Kingmaker had the kingdom manager shit that flopped. But the main core gameplay is fabulous. 

 

9/10 for me atm. Its up there with Pillars 1 and DOS 2 as the best of the revival so far. 

 

I backed it a while ago, got it installed but not started yet due to my horrific backlog and my annual ritual of buying FM, neglecting it all year and then getting properly into it shortly before the new one comes out.

 

Like you I only played a few hours of Kingmaker, probably not enough to give a fair assessment but something about it just felt off to me. I think a big part of that was probably the presentation so good to hear it's a real plus point this time.

 

What class did you end up going with?

[Finnegan]

10 minutes ago, Guest said:

What class did you end up going with?

 

What I love about Pathfinder is there's not as much penalty for multi classing as with other systems so you can just dip all over the place taking levels in X, Y or Z class. 

 

I initially went to do a mostly Magus build, took a first rank in Scaled Fist monk for the AC buff and a second in Vivisectionist for the Mutagens and sneak attack. 

 

Problem is, whilst Magus was amazing in Kingmaker, the vast majority of enemies in WOTR have magic and elemental resistances that make a heavy spell damage build a bit shit without heavy investment in feats specifically designed to get round those resistances, which you don't take on a Magus typically as its a gish (melee fighter with spells) class. 

 

So I reapecced to Lawful Good Deliverer Slayer which is a pure physical dps class that gets sneak attack bonus damage and later on gets damage bonuses to opposite alignments, ie the Demons that are everywhere that you're fighting. Think it'll do better. 

 

But I'll probably respec and maybe try a couple different things before I settle. I downloaded a mod that let's you respec for yourself and the party members for free just so I can try everything out cos there's just so much choice and a lot of it is quite new to me.