The EU referendum - IN / OUT or Shake it all about.

[norwichfox]

John Mills, founder of global consumer products company JML Group:

"I don't think it would make much difference economically if we were in or out, but I'm quite open minded on the issue.

"I just think we need to change our terms of membership and repatriate some powers from Brussels to Westminster. I don't think Britain wants to be part of a 'United States of Europe'."

The costs of membership, at £14bn-£15bn a year, are too high, he adds, while some of the regulations coming from Europe "can make business less competitive".

 

Makes sense to me, as he's not really made his mind up either, I really can't make my mind up which way to vote, but the votes have already been counted in all probability with 176% turn out, and a "we'll stay in Europe and do whatever they tell us to" majority of 97.2%

[AyewJoking]

is it realistic the government could rig the poll as to stay in the EU?

[Guest MattP]

What have Brexit said will happen to existing EU migrants? Presumably some kind of grace period followed by a requirement to get visa's, the difficulty of which will be set by the government of the day.

 

Brexit aren't the government so they can't actually say what would happen to anyone, that's the huge advantage the Remain campaign has.

 

I doubt there would be any grace period, people here would have the same rights as everyone else and would be entitled to stay, I presume we have the date they entered the country.

 

is it realistic the government could rig the poll as to stay in the EU?

 

If they could do that they wouldn't need to use the civil service to bully us into staying.

 

On a serious note I volunteered in a polling station about ten years back, no way could you rig that, so many people around and the votes on the directly driven to the count and the times are signed off from departure to the arrival so ensure nothing funny is going on.

 

Postal votes however I'm sure could be rigged, the fact they are kept "locked away" for days sometimes weeks on end leaves it open to all sorts of potential abuse as you would easily have the time to do if the people involved in it wanted too, which is why postal voting should be banned unless that person has a genuine reason that they can't get to the ballot box (it also stops party activists bullying people on the dorsteps to sign up and then coming back to collect forms as we saw in Tower Hamlets and Birmingham)

[Guest]

So Gove and Boris are going on about immigration today. That really sums the exiters up. Nearly every economist and every business are saying how bad it will be to leave so it's back to the only story which really matters to exiters - those bloody european foreigners.

 

Pack up your stall and move to Wales guys.

[Guest]

is it realistic the government could rig the poll as to stay in the EU?

 

Why would they need to? Any intelligent person is going to vote to remain in given all the "facts" are pointing to a British meltdown if they leave.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

John Mills, founder of global consumer products company JML Group:

"I don't think it would make much difference economically if we were in or out, but I'm quite open minded on the issue.

"I just think we need to change our terms of membership and repatriate some powers from Brussels to Westminster. I don't think Britain wants to be part of a 'United States of Europe'."

The costs of membership, at £14bn-£15bn a year, are too high, he adds, while some of the regulations coming from Europe "can make business less competitive".

 

Makes sense to me, as he's not really made his mind up either, I really can't make my mind up which way to vote, but the votes have already been counted in all probability with 176% turn out, and a "we'll stay in Europe and do whatever they tell us to" majority of 97.2%

I think he has made his mind up - he's a lead donor for Vote Leave!

[johnny the fox]

So Gove and Boris are going on about immigration today. That really sums the exiters up. Nearly every economist and every business are saying how bad it will be to leave so it's back to the only story which really matters to exiters - those bloody european foreigners.

 

Pack up your stall and move to Wales guys.

What pathetic ignorant sweeping statement... 

[bovril]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/05/29/britain-is-most-corrupt-country-on-earth-says-mafia-expert-rober/

 

An interesting point of view, although I guess he has some new material to flog...

[johnny the fox]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/05/29/britain-is-most-corrupt-country-on-earth-says-mafia-expert-rober/

 

An interesting point of view, although I guess he has some new material to flog...

saying it don't make it so..

[theessexfox]

@@MattP made a good point the other day; all these economic forecasts about the implications of Brexit making the headlines, I haven't come across any forecasts about the implications of sticking with the European project and the various negative consequences that could have. 

[Rincewind]

@@MattP made a good point the other day; all these economic forecasts about the implications of Brexit making the headlines, I haven't come across any forecasts about the implications of sticking with the European project and the various negative consequences that could have. 

Maybe we are experiencing the negative aspects of being in the EU now.

Just a thought.

[theessexfox]

Maybe we are experiencing the negative aspects of being in the EU now.

Just a thought.

That case isn't really being made though to any great extent. The possibility of closer political union along with the strains on the Schengen Agreement caused by the migrant crisis - which is only likely to get worse before it gets better - could have impacts felt here in the UK. 

[Dodgy Bob]

@@MattP made a good point the other day; all these economic forecasts about the implications of Brexit making the headlines, I haven't come across any forecasts about the implications of sticking with the European project and the various negative consequences that could have.

All the reports make forecasts based on staying in and leaving, that's how they're able to compare the two and say things like "we'll be £Xbn worse off by leaving".

[theessexfox]

All the reports make forecasts based on staying in and leaving, that's how they're able to compare the two and say things like "we'll be £Xbn worse off by leaving".

I'd bet they don't take into account the possibility of a change in the landscape in Europe, which could be slightly different to just if things stay as they are now.

[Dodgy Bob]

I'd bet they don't take into account the possibility of a change in the landscape in Europe, which could be slightly different to just if things stay as they are now.

They model based on what they think is the most likely scenario. Obviously it's impossible to know what is going to happen in the future, which is why economic forecasts are rarely totally accurate and often aren't accurate at all. All sorts of unexpected things can and will occur.

If you're convinced that some specific problem will affect the EU in the future then you should vote to leave regardless of the economic forecasts. If the leave campaign has the same concerns then they should be campaigning on those concerns, not just saying "no that's wrong" to everything remain says.

[KP Fox]

If we vote 'out' will players like Schmeichel, Huth, Kante have to apply for work permits? Ohh and Ranieri of course

[johnny the fox]

is it realistic the government could rig the poll as to stay in the EU?

 They are certainly trying their best....

[johnny the fox]

If we vote 'out' will players like Schmeichel, Huth, Kante have to apply for work permits? Ohh and Ranieri of course

legislation is never retrospective anyway..

[Thracian]

Labour's first Muslim London mayor has given his guidance. And I'm sure that message will be relayed to Muslim communities across the country which should mean an emphatic kick-start for the Remain vote. 

And, of course, it is entirely understandable.

So many Labour votes depend on those Muslim and other incomer communities.

And with the party desperate for more such votes to return them to power I'm equally convinced that if Labour have their way, we'll remain in Europe, and the immigration doors will be left wide open for those thought most "in need" whether they be refugees or economic migrants who might equally be thought of as potential political allies (at least for the time being). 

I'm equally sure that if Cameron is backed, the same will apply, because his promise to reduce immigration has proved to be as hollow as the Blackwall Tunnel and is about as credible as some of his other promises and so much of the supposedly "informed" but scandalously one-sided and highly questionable financial comment on the subject of EU membership.

As an old time Brit it makes me glad I'm in the twilight of my life because our faltering and systematically downgraded community is being well and truly snookered and, ironically, with the compliance of our own kids and grandkids who've been widely educated to have no concerns whatsoever and to believe in the idealistic (albeit subtly weighted) concept of a Brotherhood of Man for all that there are, metaphorically, countless sickeningly vicious wars going on as we speak.

"They know not what they do," is a phrase which comes to my mind, but I certainly wouldn't apply it to Sadiq Khan.

Leicester to win the Premiership at 5000-1. Crazy but true.

Sharia law across Britain and most of Europe within 40 years, and a Holy Koran as required reading for every household too? No chance of anything like 5000-1 is my guess. Fifty to one might be generous.

    

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36410749

[Thracian]

@@MattP made a good point the other day; all these economic forecasts about the implications of Brexit making the headlines, I haven't come across any forecasts about the implications of sticking with the European project and the various negative consequences that could have. 

 

 

Some might call it a stitch up. Or weighted dice. As for the BBC do they really understand the concept of fairness or do they just think the public won't notice. Some don't of course. But for me they're more biased than any set of bowls.

 

Just take today's BBC main page which is typical.

 

 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36410749

 

Main story combining the political opposites Cameron and Khan advocating remaining in the EU. That's not accidental - it's well considered pro-EU impact from an organisation that has benefitted so much from EU "sponsorship".

 

But look at the three support features highlighted in black. and with "Brexit Huge Blow to UK economy" right at the top to present not just a blatantly biased lead but an emphasisig follow up and all neatly packaged so that any detailed argument to the contrary is by way of an afterthought.

 

Other ways they emphasise their message is to give longer talking time on chat debates to the pro-Remain rather than the antis or to give the pro-Remain more speaking options. And that's without delving back into the way their weight their audiences.

 

Even Cameron has expressed his frustration about them but really they probably deserve one another. As ever it's genuinely informed and independent evaluation that gets overshadowed for the desired propaganda soundbites.    

[bovril]

If we vote 'out' will players like Schmeichel, Huth, Kante have to apply for work permits? Ohh and Ranieri of course

 

If we vote out I imagine, eventually, EU citizens will need to apply for some kind of visa as non-EU migrants have to now.

 

I doubt it'll be a problem for rich football clubs. Although I seem to remember Tim Howard rushing through a Hungarian passport to make his move to Man United easier.

[Dodgy Bob]

Labour's first Muslim London mayor has given his guidance. And I'm sure that message will be relayed to Muslim communities across the country which should mean an emphatic kick-start for the Remain vote.

And, of course, it is entirely understandable.

So many Labour votes depend on those Muslim and other incomer communities.

And with the party desperate for more such votes to return them to power I'm equally convinced that if Labour have their way, we'll remain in Europe, and the immigration doors will be left wide open for those thought most "in need" whether they be refugees or economic migrants who might equally be thought of as potential political allies (at least for the time being).

I'm equally sure that if Cameron is backed, the same will apply, because his promise to reduce immigration has proved to be as hollow as the Blackwall Tunnel and is about as credible as some of his other promises and so much of the supposedly "informed" but scandalously one-sided and highly questionable financial comment on the subject of EU membership.

As an old time Brit it makes me glad I'm in the twilight of my life because our faltering and systematically downgraded community is being well and truly snookered and, ironically, with the compliance of our own kids and grandkids who've been widely educated to have no concerns whatsoever and to believe in the idealistic (albeit subtly weighted) concept of a Brotherhood of Man for all that there are, metaphorically, countless sickeningly vicious wars going on as we speak.

"They know not what they do," is a phrase which comes to my mind, but I certainly wouldn't apply it to Sadiq Khan.

Leicester to win the Premiership at 5000-1. Crazy but true.

Sharia law across Britain and most of Europe within 40 years, and a Holy Koran as required reading for every household too? No chance of anything like 5000-1 is my guess. Fifty to one might be generous.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36410749

wow

Sharia Law, refugee onslaught, systematic degradation, sickening wars... all coming to the UK if we stay in the EU. Just, I don't know, perhaps just a little bit sensationalist, no?

[Alf Bentley]

Labour's first Muslim London mayor has given his guidance. And I'm sure that message will be relayed to Muslim communities across the country which should mean an emphatic kick-start for the Remain vote. 

[...]

"They know not what they do," is a phrase which comes to my mind, but I certainly wouldn't apply it to Sadiq Khan.

Leicester to win the Premiership at 5000-1. Crazy but true.

Sharia law across Britain and most of Europe within 40 years, and a Holy Koran as required reading for every household too? No chance of anything like 5000-1 is my guess. Fifty to one might be generous.

    

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36410749

 

 

The "Muslim London mayor" also gave his guidance on gay marriage. He repeatedly supported it, to the extent that the police warned him about death threats

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/11878/sadiq_khan/tooting/divisions?policy=826

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2279703/Death-threats-UKs-Muslim-MP-voted-gay-marriage.html

 

I've yet to see processions of bearded Mullahs chanting "There is one God, Allah, and Sadiq is his prophet. He says support gay marriage and the EU, this is the word of the prophet, lads, so let's ignore his sharp New Labour suit and lack of a beard".

 

Maybe a Remain vote will lead to an evangelical Christian state in 40 years time? Look at what our "Christian PM" has to say: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/16/david-cameron-evangelical-about-christian-faith

"David Cameron has declared himself an "evangelical" about his Christian faith as he criticised some non-believers for failing to grasp the role that religion can have in "helping people to have a moral code". In his third effort this week to highlight his own strong faith, the prime minister said he wanted to see a bigger role for religion in Britain as a Christian country and urged fellow believers to be more confident in spreading their views".

Has Sadiq Khan said anything similar about Islam?

 

I'd be more worried about us having Old Testament law in 40 years time, a Holy Bible as required reading for every household and being whipped down the street carrying a Crucifix every Easter.

 

Nah! Actually, I wouldn't be worried either about New Labour apparatchiks introducing Sharia law or about sub-Thatcherite tax avoiders promoting the Old Testament. I'd just concentrate on the pros and cons of the EU.   

[Dr The Singh]

The "Muslim London mayor" also gave his guidance on gay marriage. He repeatedly supported it, to the extent that the police warned him about death threats

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/11878/sadiq_khan/tooting/divisions?policy=826

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2279703/Death-threats-UKs-Muslim-MP-voted-gay-marriage.html

I've yet to see processions of bearded Mullahs chanting "There is one God, Allah, and Sadiq is his prophet. He says support gay marriage and the EU, this is the word of the prophet, lads, so let's ignore his sharp New Labour suit and lack of a beard".

Maybe a Remain vote will lead to an evangelical Christian state in 40 years time? Look at what our "Christian PM" has to say: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/16/david-cameron-evangelical-about-christian-faith

"David Cameron has declared himself an "evangelical" about his Christian faith as he criticised some non-believers for failing to grasp the role that religion can have in "helping people to have a moral code". In his third effort this week to highlight his own strong faith, the prime minister said he wanted to see a bigger role for religion in Britain as a Christian country and urged fellow believers to be more confident in spreading their views".

Has Sadiq Khan said anything similar about Islam?

I'd be more worried about us having Old Testament law in 40 years time, a Holy Bible as required reading for every household and being whipped down the street carrying a Crucifix every Easter.

Nah! Actually, I wouldn't be worried either about New Labour apparatchiks introducing Sharia law or about sub-Thatcherite tax avoiders promoting the Old Testament. I'd just concentrate on the pros and cons of the EU.

I'm very dubious about what sadiq says in public vs what he preaches in private. Only time will tell

[johnny the fox]

I'm very dubious about what sadiq says in public vs what he preaches in private. Only time will tell

not sure how much of cameron's support he can stand...