The EU referendum - IN / OUT or Shake it all about.

[Webbo]

Remain will win, I don't doubt that for a second.

[Alf Bentley]

Remain will win, I don't doubt that for a second.

 

 

I've got to go out shortly but would be interested to hear why you're so confident about that. The "Fear Factor" working? Undecideds inevitably turning out and voting for the status quo?

 

Even as someone tending Remain, I'd find that pathetic. People should take a little time (doesn't take long) to look at the issues - and have the courage to vote with their convictions either way, in the knowledge that nothing's guaranteed in this world.

[Webbo]

I've got to go out shortly but would be interested to hear why you're so confident about that. The "Fear Factor" working? Undecideds inevitably turning out and voting for the status quo?

 

Even as someone tending Remain, I'd find that pathetic. People should take a little time (doesn't take long) to look at the issues - and have the courage to vote with their convictions either way, in the knowledge that nothing's guaranteed in this world.

Because not enough people care about what the brexiters care about, the lack of democracy and the ever closer integration. People are worried about their incomes, which I don't condemn and also the pro EU group's over the years have implied that being anti EU makes you a bit Neanderthal, a bit ignorant and racist.

 

It's worked, which is a shame and I suppose I'm just going to have to accept it.

[Thracian]

Haven't really been paying attention but I think the pensions discussion is based on the treasury report, ie it's output rather than input. It's only logical that if the economy suffers then pensions will suffer as well, private ones at least.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/662199/Pension-black-hole-crippling-UK-bankrupt-future-generations

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/659840/EU-wants-control-your-pension-Brussels-secret-plan-revealed-David-Cameron?_ga=1.87339544.10180195.1461586877

[Guest MattP]

Poll on The Times today, a third of Labour voters didn't know that the party is campaigning to stay in the EU.

[Webbo]

Good debate here

 

Erudite and intelligent arguments from Daniel Hannan, waffle and bullshit from Eddie Izzard.

[Nick]

Universities will be so pro remain .... Without all the European Union research grants they will struggle in many ways including ranking as its how they generate the bulk of their research outputs which link to their rankings....

[Harry - LCFC]

Good debate here

 

Erudite and intelligent arguments from Daniel Hannan, waffle and bullshit from Eddie Izzard.

 

I get frustrated when celebrities are invited to debates purely because they're celebrities. If they know what they're talking about that's fair enough but if they aren't able to express considered, evidenced arguments they shouldn't be there.

[Webbo]

I get frustrated when celebrities are invited to debates purely because they're celebrities. If they know what they're talking about that's fair enough but if they aren't able to express considered, evidenced arguments they shouldn't be there.

It's sad that TV producers think that they have to use celebs to get a wider audience. Somebody who has no interest in politics isn't going to watch Question Time just because Eddy Izzard/Joey Barton/Jo Brand or someone equally irrelevant  is on the show.

[Countryfox]

It's sad that TV producers think that they have to use celebs to get a wider audience. Somebody who has no interest in politics isn't going to watch Question Time just because Eddy Izzard/Joey Barton/Jo Brand or someone equally irrelevant  is on the show.

 

Fook me I don't think I would watch anything if those 3 were involved !!!

[Guest MattP]

Just look at the state of him.

One thing the remain camp has done brilliantly is shielded their idiots from normal folk, Corbyn has been totally irrelevant (although probably his own choice) Izzard was sent on a tour of Universities who would cheer a chimp telling them to stay and the hopeless June Sarpong has vanished since that one appearance on Question Time.

[Nalis]

Watching the Referendum broadcast for Vote Leave, is this some sort of parody??

'Oi Dave, Turkey v Albania? They're joining are joining the EU ain't they?'

'Quinoa, nah mate, I prefer chips.'

[Webbo]

Watching the Referendum broadcast for Vote Leave, is this some sort of parody??

'Oi Dave, Turkey v Albania? They're joining are joining the EU ain't they?'

'Quinoa, nah mate, I prefer chips.'

I just watched and thought wtf was that about?

[Rincewind]

Had leaflets from both sides today. What do you do when you agree with bits from both sides.

This is how it is with all elections too.

[Sharpe's Fox]

Heard some more Labour tosh on the radio about how if Leave wins the country will be left to the Tories.

Honestly it's such a crap argument it does my head in. They have a majority of twelve MP's. Yes they want to dismantle every public service going but they will never do it without the numbers, never mind the welfare state them lot couldn't even dismantle a dolls house without making a u-turn on whether Barbie should be in the kitchen or the living room with Ken.

[theessexfox]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3459873/Cameron-loyalist-William-Hague-demands-Brexit-rebels-campaign-spare-time-PM-heads-London-sell-deal-voters.html

 

Came across this from February whilst doing some other research, Cameron never really made this a level playing field did he? 

 

"Brexit Cabinet rebels banned from accessing government material to support campaign to leave EU under David Cameron's strict new gagging rules"

 

[Alf Bentley]

Because not enough people care about what the brexiters care about, the lack of democracy and the ever closer integration. People are worried about their incomes, which I don't condemn and also the pro EU group's over the years have implied that being anti EU makes you a bit Neanderthal, a bit ignorant and racist.

 

It's worked, which is a shame and I suppose I'm just going to have to accept it.

 

 

I'd take any poll with a pinch of salt, but this shows that the outcome is not a foregone conclusion - particularly when you remember that Brexit voters tend to be more committed, so more likely to turn out on the day:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/31/uk-voters-leaning-towards-brexit-guardian-poll-reveals

"Public opinion has shifted towards the UK leaving the EU, two Guardian/ICM polls suggest as the referendum campaign picks up pace – with voters split 52% -48% in favour of Brexit, whether surveyed online or by phone".

 

Your point about "Neanderthals" can cut both ways. A minority might depict Brexit supporters as ignorant and racist, but another minority might depict Bremain supporters as naive idealists, unpatriotic or pampered middle-class do-gooders. I don't get any sense that it is widely seen as beyond the pale to support either side. The sort of people who'd be scathing about the opposite side are precisely the sort of people they'd take no notice of, anyway. A lot of people still seem confused or undecided.

[Dr The Singh]

I'd take any poll with a pinch of salt, but this shows that the outcome is not a foregone conclusion - particularly when you remember that Brexit voters tend to be more committed, so more likely to turn out on the day:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/31/uk-voters-leaning-towards-brexit-guardian-poll-reveals

"Public opinion has shifted towards the UK leaving the EU, two Guardian/ICM polls suggest as the referendum campaign picks up pace – with voters split 52% -48% in favour of Brexit, whether surveyed online or by phone".

 

Your point about "Neanderthals" can cut both ways. A minority might depict Brexit supporters as ignorant and racist, but another minority might depict Bremain supporters as naive idealists, unpatriotic or pampered middle-class do-gooders. I don't get any sense that it is widely seen as beyond the pale to support either side. The sort of people who'd be scathing about the opposite side are precisely the sort of people they'd take no notice of, anyway. A lot of people still seem confused or undecided.

I want out, nobody is calling me a racist!!!  For me, i have lost all hope in politicians especially Cameron and co, they have made this vote such a vile and negative campaign, of such doom and gloom and lies!!  This is the biggest vote of my life and what the public need is honesty from those we elected!!

[Guest MattP]

The polls are baffling me, it's been tight for months then in one week we had remain surge (as much as +14 ) into as lead and now it's pretty much back on a level footing again, I don't know how they can come to this conclusion, people can't be changing their minds week after week surely?

 

The only logical conclusion that can be drawn is that the pollster have absolutely no idea what people are thinking, you can add even more indifference to that if the turnout is going to be 60% as well.

 

I'm almost at the point where nothing will surprise me, a strong remain vote, a close one or a strong leave one, no exit poll either for this on the night so we'll be guessing for a while.

[Dr The Singh]

The polls are baffling me, it's been tight for months then in one week we had remain surge (as much as +14 ) into as lead and now it's pretty much back on a level footing again, I don't know how they can come to this conclusion, people can't be changing their minds week after week surely?

 

The only logical conclusion that can be drawn is that the pollster have absolutely no idea what people are thinking, you can add even more indifference to that if the turnout is going to be 60% as well.

 

I'm almost at the point where nothing will surprise me, a strong remain vote, a close one or a strong leave one, no exit poll either for this on the night so we'll be guessing for a while.

All we need is for some celebrities to acknowledge on way or the other and it's all sealed.....where's white dee, joey essex or david beckham on this??

[Guest MattP]

All we need is for some celebrities to acknowledge on way or the other and it's all sealed.....where's white dee, joey essex or david beckham on this??

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ed-miliband-throws-ultimate-shade-8076509

[davieG]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ed-miliband-throws-ultimate-shade-8076509

Which begs a question I'd  like answering will we get our international waters back and our old exclusive pre-euro fishing grounds?

 

I guess not although I'm  not sure why but the fact that neither side seems to have mentioned it, the bremains  because it's  embarrassing and a blot on the tory history and the brexits well because we ain't. 

[Alf Bentley]

I'm almost at the point where nothing will surprise me, a strong remain vote, a close one or a strong leave one, no exit poll either for this on the night so we'll be guessing for a while.

 

 

Do you know why there's no exit poll? For the Scottish referendum, I think the broadcasters just chose not to commission one. Same thing? Sounds as if the result will be known by breakfast time, at the latest, though.

 

There's going to be a right row if the result is close.

 

Imagine if there's a narrow Brexit vote but Scotland has voted massively for Remain - or if the Scottish vote tips it for Remain but England votes narrowly for Brexit? 

I imagine there'll be some big disparities even within England, too.

 

The next 3 weeks will be a roller-coaster.....then, after that, someone might be pressing the button to set the roller-coaster to high speed! 

[Alf Bentley]

Which begs a question I'd  like answering will we get our international waters back and our old exclusive pre-euro fishing grounds?

 

I guess not although I'm  not sure why but the fact that neither side seems to have mentioned it, the bremains  because it's  embarrassing and a blot on the tory history and the brexits well because we ain't. 

 

 

Good question, Davie.

 

The BBC site suggests that it would be a matter for negotiation: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36358016

 

If they are correct, a post-Brexit UK COULD exclude foreign fishing vessels from its waters. Presumably, though, the remaining EU countries could exclude British vessels from their waters - and could take a hard line on British fisheries imports, imposing tariffs etc.

 

It's interesting that when Greenland (a major fishing area) left the EU, it ended up allowing EU vessels into its waters in exchange for its produce getting tariff-free access to the EU. The UK situation would be a bit different as we have a much larger domestic market than Greenland, obviously! Not sure how much fish we export - a fair bit, I think. So, excluding EU vessels from our waters might benefit small fishing businesses or those that mainly sold their produce in the UK or outside the EU, but it might be damaging to larger or specialist fishing businesses that sell a lot of produce to the continent.... 

 

Will be interesting to see if the Brexit camp say anything about this. If anything, they are the ones who might be able to use it to win votes....but depends how many will gain, how many lose, I expect. Most people in fishing / former fishing communities tend to be pro-Brexit, I think, but whether they'd actually be better off outside the EU now, with very low fishing stocks, I've no idea.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Which begs a question I'd  like answering will we get our international waters back and our old exclusive pre-euro fishing grounds?

 

I guess not although I'm  not sure why but the fact that neither side seems to have mentioned it, the bremains  because it's  embarrassing and a blot on the tory history and the brexits well because we ain't.

Might not matter - more and more commercial 'fishing' is being done via inland man made water facilities or even worse in warehouses with multiple tanks!