Susan Whelan calls on fans to trust club's decision to replace Pearson

[indierich06]

What about when Nigel walked out on us when he couldn't work with Mandaric and Hoos?

 

Because they were showing other managers around behind his back, even inviting them to our games as their guests? Yeah, Pearson was the one in the wrong there, wasn't he?

 

And how exactly did he walk out on us? Hull made an offer, Mandaric and Hoos were well within their rights to turn it down if they'd wanted to keep Pearson. Did they?

[Captain...]

Because they were showing other managers around behind his back, even inviting them to our games as their guests? Yeah, Pearson was the one in the wrong there, wasn't he?

 

And how exactly did he walk out on us? Hull made an offer, Mandaric and Hoos were well within their rights to turn it down if they'd wanted to keep Pearson. Did they?

 

Did Pearson accept Hull's offer or stay for the good of the club?

 

I completely blame Mandaric and Hoos for the breakdown in relationship with Pearson, but their relationship broke down and Pearson left because he couldn't carry on working with people he didn't trust or respect. Hull made an offer and he chose Hull over staying here.

 

This is no different, if him kicking off over James, added to the other incidents over the last season, was the reason for him going. If you can't work with someone it is not for the good of the club that you carry on, it will cause more problems and more tension.

 

Brian Clough was different, like Mourihnio and Fergie, they were irreplaceable, Nigel isn't. He was a great manager for us, but there are better managers out there, and I hope we have found one of them.

[The Doctor]

Players dont play for buttons. His net spend may well be £5m, but his wage bill throughout was obscene. He may noy have signed Kasper, Konchesky or Nugent but he sure as heck benefitted from their presence.

When we gained promotion we were £113m in debt, our wage bill for 2012/13 stood at 26.1 million (or 133% of our turnover). I think any reasonable person would view that as a considerable sum.

Before you spout off about wages, let's not forget that he got rid of the huge earners like Beckford, Mills, Wellens (following his bumper pay rise from Sven), Fernandes, Abe... the list goes on (Gallagher only went out on loan because no one could afford him permanently). He generally shrunk the cost of the squad from Sven while delivering success. Of our success, it's come with smaller expenditure than our failures - MON and Pearson vs Taylor, Allen, Sven.

That of the past seven years (or 5 ifyou want to count just since the owners came in), Pearson has been the constant factor in our success, and we've tended to be a omnishambles in his absence, even with the owners putting more in in the time suggests I don't really have reason to trust the owners to make good decisions, that of the two pearson was the one to trust to guide the club forward

[Webbo]

Because the owners were the ones who made the decision to sack Pearson, not Pearson.

And you don't think there may have been a reason for that?

[fleckneymike]

Before you spout off about wages, let's not forget that he got rid of the huge earners like Beckford, Mills, Wellens (following his bumper pay rise from Sven), Fernandes, Abe... the list goes on (Gallagher only went out on loan because no one could afford him permanently). He generally shrunk the cost of the squad from Sven while delivering success. Of our success, it's come with smaller expenditure than our failures - MON and Pearson vs Taylor, Allen, Sven.

That of the past seven years (or 5 ifyou want to count just since the owners came in), Pearson has been the constant factor in our success, and we've tended to be a omnishambles in his absence, even with the owners putting more in in the time suggests I don't really have reason to trust the owners to make good decisions, that of the two pearson was the one to trust to guide the club forward

 

But he didn't, if he had then the wage bill would have shrunk, but it didn't, it increased by £10m in our promotion season. He got rid of big earners and seemingly replaced them with bigger earners. Our wage bill rose from £26.8m in 2012/13 to £36.3m in 2013/14.

 

Beckford left in July 2013 as did Wellens. Bamba, Mills and Peltier left between June and August 2012. Someone somewhere is raking it in and they weren't necessarily signed by Sven.

 

Again I am quite clear that he did an excellent job, it just appears that his excellence is very expensive.

[ARM1968]

Our owners have generally been fantastic. They've done pretty much everything you could wish for, including putting up with Pearson's weird behaviour last season.

I think we should trust them on this and judge them on the success or otherwise of the club. They have no incentive to see us relegated. They want is to be a success. So do I.

[filbertway]

But he didn't, if he had then the wage bill would have shrunk, but it didn't, it increased by £10m in our promotion season. He got rid of big earners and seemingly replaced them with bigger earners. Our wage bill rose from £26.8m in 2012/13 to £36.3m in 2013/14.

Beckford left in July 2013 as did Wellens. Bamba, Mills and Peltier left between June and August 2012. Someone somewhere is raking it in and they weren't necessarily signed by Sven.

Again I am quite clear that he did an excellent job, it just appears that his excellence is very expensive.

I find it hard to believe we were spending 698 grand a week on wages.

Did that include promotion bonuses?

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Because the owners were the ones who made the decision to sack Pearson, not Pearson.

Why do you think the owners should owe anyone an explanation?. They don't, and have no binding commitment to do so. It's their business, not ours. 

[fleckneymike]

I find it hard to believe we were spending 698 grand a week on wages.

Did that include promotion bonuses?

 

Not sure, if it did the promotion bonus pot was 'only' £5m so if we allow for that bonus in the figures it still means the wages increased by £5m on the previous season.

 

As I've said, great manger, great expense.

 

EDITED TO SAY

 

The promotion bonus was £9.4m according to the Mercury and only £5m according to the Mirror.

 

If we minus £9.4m the Pearson cut the wage bill by, wait for it, 100k.

[Steven]

Why do you think the owners should owe anyone an explanation?. They don't, and have no binding commitment to do so. It's their business, not ours. 

 

That is from the Gerald Ratner school of customer management.

[MPH]

That is from the Gerald Ratner school of customer management.

  I agree with both you and D. maybe more dt's sentiment than actual wording....

 

 

From your statement though.... it must be acknowledged that they didnt get where they are today with the billions in the bank ( its even more impressive to earn a billion pounds worth of bhats) by insulting their own fans or annoying them or making decisions to upset them. Therefore, they must fully believe that every decision they make is for the best for their buisness in the long run, not just short term...

[Voll Blau]

  I agree with both you and D. maybe more dt's sentiment than actual wording....

 

 

From your statement though.... it must be acknowledged that they didnt get where they are today with the billions in the bank ( its even more impressive to earn a billion pounds worth of bhats) by insulting their own fans or annoying them or making decisions to upset them. Therefore, they must fully believe that every decision they make is for the best for their buisness in the long run, not just short term...

 

Businesses don't have fans. Football is different.

[zante]

Why do you think the owners should owe anyone an explanation?. They don't, and have no binding commitment to do so. It's their business, not ours. 

 

Seriously depressing that some City fans think like this....

[Freeman's Wharfer]

My stance is pretty clear on this one.

I'll trust them and back the team and the manager and hope it turns out for the best. If it turns out that that trust was misplaced and their decision (aka their gamble) doesn't pay off then they will have to deal with the consequences. Where I'm concerned those consequences will be a loss of my trust and the associated backlash that comes with that.

They've asked for the trust. Now they'd better hope this all works out.

[Bluearmyfox28]

My stance is pretty clear on this one.

I'll trust them and back the team and the manager and hope it turns out for the best. If it turns out that that trust was misplaced and their decision (aka their gamble) doesn't pay off then they will have to deal with the consequences. Where I'm concerned those consequences will be a loss of my trust and the associated backlash that comes with that.

They've asked for the trust. Now they'd better hope this all works out.

Couldn't agree any more! The owners have made the right calls in the past so let's just give it a chance rather than slating people from within the club.

[inckley fox]

My stance is pretty clear on this one.

I'll trust them and back the team and the manager and hope it turns out for the best. If it turns out that that trust was misplaced and their decision (aka their gamble) doesn't pay off then they will have to deal with the consequences. Where I'm concerned those consequences will be a loss of my trust and the associated backlash that comes with that.

They've asked for the trust. Now they'd better hope this all works out.

 

I agree pretty much with you on this one. I don't think 'trust' enters into it for me particularly, principally because there are very few people in football I'd go so far as to 'trust'. But our board have had some ups and downs - more ups to date, in fairness - and they and Ranieri need the patience to show that this was the right decision.

 

While I disagree with people actively supporting the decision on the grounds that 'there was probably a good reason for it', and especially those who suggest Pearson was less trustworthy than the board so probably deserved it (we can play that game all day long, with Pearson and with the board - as much of this thread shows) the ultimate proof will be in either the circumstances of the sacking being made public, or how it works out in terms of results. Up to now we don't have a reason for the decision and we don't know how it's going to pan out, so naturally it still feels like an odd decision.

 

But if the results justify it, then the ins and outs of the decision will seem almost irrelevant. That's what most of us, I'm sure, want to happen. Of course if it goes wrong there'll be serious questions to answer, but give it time.

[Babylon]

You think Pearson would have drawn a line under it with Stringer? i doubt it.

 

Well he did previously after another run in, so I'm using history to come to my conclusion.

[Sir Fynwy]

Businesses don't have fans. Football is different.

Apple has fans, Sony used to have a loyal fanbase that'd buy anything and most designer and luxury businesses have fans.

[Kitchandro]

Our owners have generally been fantastic. They've done pretty much everything you could wish for, including putting up with Pearson's weird behaviour last season.

I think we should trust them on this and judge them on the success or otherwise of the club. They have no incentive to see us relegated. They want is to be a success. So do I.

 

Actually the thing I'd most wish for is for them to publicly back safe standing and make tickets cheaper, they haven't done that. Nor has the customer service improved one iota under their stewardship.

 

In terms of treating fans with respect they've done bugger all.

 

They may want the club to be a success but that doesn't mean they necessarily have the fans best interests at heart. It also doesn't mean they are intelligent enough to make it happen in the long term.

 

We'll have to see but whilst they're not the worst owners in the world by a long chalk they are far from perfect.

[The Railway Man]

Apple has fans, Sony used to have a loyal fanbase that'd buy anything and most designer and luxury businesses have fans.

 

Bit different from football though isn't it? A football team is for life, you don't change it.

 

I'm a huge fan of Sainsburys but I'd shop elsewhere if I had too, I always buy a panasonic TV but I'd change if I had one that let me down, you simply don't do that with a football club, it's there with you from when you start supporting them until death.

[Kitchandro]

Why do you think the owners should owe anyone an explanation?. They don't, and have no binding commitment to do so. It's their business, not ours. 

 

I didn't say they owe us an explanation did I?

 

I'm saying it's not down to Pearson to tell us why he was sacked, because he didn't make the decision.

 

The owners don't have to tell us either (and I don't expect them to) but they have to then accept that they won't be trusted. Why would you trust someone who won't tell you the whole truth?

[inckley fox]

I didn't say they owe us an explanation did I?

 

I'm saying it's not down to Pearson to tell us why he was sacked, because he didn't make the decision.

 

The owners don't have to tell us either (and I don't expect them to) but they have to then accept that they won't be trusted. Why would you trust someone who won't tell you the whole truth?

 

Yes I'm surprised that people have struggled with this. In life in general actions need justification in order for us to agree with them. The action, in this case, was the sacking which seemed - on the surface of it - to be a very strange decision.

 

Seeing as we've never got beneath that surface, learnt of any justification - and that doesn't mean there isn't a reason for it but if we don't know what it is we can't use it in their defence - we're left with an unjustified action. A strange decision which we can't possibly logically defend, except with speculation that a man reacts the same way to civil boardroom proposals as he does to being whacked on his bad knee or repeatedly called a 't**t'. And, as we've seen, speculation can work both ways.

 

But, like I say, if it all works out well for us then whether or not we can successfully moralise the sacking will seem irrelevant. We've got to hope for that.

[Babylon]

Not sure, if it did the promotion bonus pot was 'only' £5m so if we allow for that bonus in the figures it still means the wages increased by £5m on the previous season.

 

As I've said, great manger, great expense.

 

EDITED TO SAY

 

The promotion bonus was £9.4m according to the Mercury and only £5m according to the Mirror.

 

If we minus £9.4m the Pearson cut the wage bill by, wait for it, 100k.

It would have been interesting to see the wage bill for the season after if we hadn't gone up. We were still paying huge sums to the likes of Gallagher, St Ledger and Danns. I would also wager we were still paying some wages out for the likes of Mills and Beckford who signed long contracts that would have run for until last summer or this summer. I doubt we managed to shift all their wages along with them.

 

My gut feeling is that whilst still paying out the same sums yearly, the squad he was using was actually performing much better and costing less. The club themselves have commented on the cutting of costs he did.

[inckley fox]

It would have been interesting to see the wage bill for the season after if we hadn't gone up. We were still paying huge sums to the likes of Gallagher, St Ledger and Danns. I would also wager we were still paying some wages out for the likes of Mills and Beckford who signed long contracts that would have run for until last summer or this summer. I doubt we managed to shift all their wages along with them.

 

My gut feeling is that whilst still paying out the same sums yearly, the squad he was using was actually performing much better and costing less. The club themselves have commented on the cutting of costs he did.

 

It's always difficult to know with wages, isn't it? Whereas transfer fees are, if made public, measurable and comparable; we never know who exactly is getting what with wages.

 

And we'll never know how high the wages would have been, a year or two on, for Sven's squad if it had picked up a promotion bonus; or even - like you say - for Pearson's squad if we hadn't gone up. All we know is that FFP was apparently met and we had to do some cloth-cutting behind the scenes, and on the playing side to meet it, regardless of wages going up. I'd guess that, if in 2013 we'd had a summer of transfer activity like that of 2011, or even 2012, we probably wouldn't have met FFP.

 

Seeing as wages tend to go up over time, and certainly go up the more you win games, score goals and secure promotions, we're kind of comparing something with nothing. The only easy comparison would be to compare the base wage of the starting eleven at the start of 2013-14 with that of 2011-12. God knows what it would tell us, though.

[Babylon]

It's always difficult to know with wages, isn't it? Whereas transfer fees are, if made public, measurable and comparable; we never know who exactly is getting what with wages.

 

And we'll never know how high the wages would have been, a year or two on, for Sven's squad if it had picked up a promotion bonus; or even - like you say - for Pearson's squad if we hadn't gone up. All we know is that FFP was apparently met and we had to do some cloth-cutting behind the scenes, and on the playing side to meet it, regardless of wages going up. I'd guess that, if in 2013 we'd had a summer of transfer activity like that of 2011, or even 2012, we probably wouldn't have met FFP.

 

Seeing as wages tend to go up over time, and certainly go up the more you win games, score goals and secure promotions, we're kind of comparing something with nothing. The only easy comparison would be to compare the base wage of the starting eleven at the start of 2013-14 with that of 2011-12. God knows what it would tell us, though.

Well yes that's another big thing, we're comparing the costs of a record breaking, promotion winning season with one where we were finishing midtable or scraping into the play offs. The extras paid out for win bonuses, goals scored and the like won't be small for such an exceptional season.