Pearson vs. Ranieri

[ImBlue]

Because it's his team of scouts, put together with Walsh... I would have thought that was obvious. What the club are trying to do is make it their team, rather than Pearson's which is a great thing. But Pearson (and Walsh if he moves on) should still get credit for starting the team. If the other guys stay here without them and continue to do an excellent job, it will be based on what was set out before.

The same goes for the sports science department, we weren't particularly well known for scouting or sports science before they arrived. They layed down the foundations to have some of the best setups in the country... why would you not credit him?

Agree with everything you say, and I do credit him for bringing them in. I just don't agree with the personal credit he gets for every signing. the scouting team, who are LCFC employees deserve that.

[Corky]

Agree with everything you say, and I do credit him for bringing them in. I just don't agree with the personal credit he gets for every signing. the scouting team, who are LCFC employees deserve that.

 

And many said they hoped that the set-up and structure would stay in place after Pearson left.

 

Fez has it spot on with his post.

[Clever Fox]

Pearson deserves every credit for the brilliant job he done here and no one should try and discredit him for that. Yes he made mistakes but that's life. We all make mistakes.

Ranieri is a new chapter for the club. So far he's used his experience well and is quickly winning everyone over. He's taking us to the next level. Whereas Pearson was learning on the job and had found his level for the time being anyway.

Just accept the good times as they are now and don't forget to enjoy the ride because we're clearly on the up.  Thanks to both of them.  

[Frank to be]

It'll be interesting if Pearson does go to Sunderland. That will be by far the biggest test he's ever faced as a manager. He'll need to really hit the ground running with a team out of sorts, without the luxury of lots of time to build his own squad, he'll be forced to show some real tactical astute Ness and ability to effectively manage players who he hasn't signed to premier league standards.

[MC Prussian]

It'll be interesting if Pearson does go to Sunderland. That will be by far the biggest test he's ever faced as a manager. He'll need to really hit the ground running with a team out of sorts, without the luxury of lots of time to build his own squad, he'll be forced to show some real tactical astute Ness and ability to effectively manage players who he hasn't signed to premier league standards.

You mean, just like the way he took over from Eriksson or Holloway.

[ImBlue]

You mean, just like the way he took over from Eriksson or Holloway.

He took over 2 points outside the playoffs with Sven and took nearly 3 seasons for promotion. Hardly the same situation is it? Granted he had a lot of players not capable of a title tilt, but not a team that was in danger of being relegated, hence, he had more time.

Sunderland would be a completely different animal, and he whoever comes in needs immediate results, that isn't what Pearson is best at. Sunderland with players like Defoe on the deals they are on, would struggle badly with relegation and I fear it could take them a long time to rebuild.

[Frank to be]

You mean, just like the way he took over from Eriksson or Holloway.

No, on both those occasions we were aiming for the promotion, he achieve it first time in league one, but took two and a half years to achieve it in the championship. With Sunderland he would have to starve off relegation in the premier league and would have less than a season to do it with the division's most out of form side. It's a totally different and much more difficult challenge than getting the best team in league one promoted.

[Babylon]

It'll be interesting if Pearson does go to Sunderland. That will be by far the biggest test he's ever faced as a manager. He'll need to really hit the ground running with a team out of sorts, without the luxury of lots of time to build his own squad, he'll be forced to show some real tactical astute Ness and ability to effectively manage players who he hasn't signed to premier league standards.

I would avoid that job if I was him. Although he has the track record of great escapes, he's best at building a club from top to bottom in his own image. An ambitious championship club would be much better suited than someone up shit creek, with players who don't care.

[AKCJ]

Yep, weirdly i'd wait until Sunderland go down before touching that job.

 

Would be the ideal platform to rebuild.

[Nalis]

The fact that is and LcFc 2015 v Lcfc 2000 are our biggest debates at present just goes to show how good we have it at the minute.

[Clever Fox]

apart from the player at Sunderland not pulling together he'd have no time to bring anyone in. So he'd be stuck with them until January. The only saving grace they have id Defoe will get them goals if they can get their act together.

[inckley fox]

You do love a long post

 

Yes Pearson deserves credit for bringing a good scouting setup with him. Of course it's always useful when you're blessed with a practically unlimited budget for such things, as he was for the likes of the sports science department for which he is also rather ambitiously credited. But I don't have any issue with anyone crediting Pearson for having some good scouts on his team. I'd rather the credit went to the scouts, but I'll give a bit to Nige. He deserves that. But he doesn't deserve full credit for the signing of Okazaki, for example, because he appeared not to even be at the club when he was signed.

 

Your point re Mahrez is an interesting one. He exploded onto the scene in early 2014 and was then inexplicably dropped for much of the early stages of last season as Pearson fiddled with his tactics and team selections, resulting in Mahrez having a disjointed season. Now, under Ranieri, he has committed his future to the club and is playing at a level some distance beyond even his best form under Pearson. His progress hasn't been linear, infact I'd say he didn't get any better between early 2014 and the end of last season. Only since Ranieri took over have we seen that noticeable improvement. See also Danny Drinkwater.

 

As for the egg, I wasn't actually referring to you, more the likes of Mark W and MattP and others who were busy predicting we'd finish bottom and that Ranieri wouldn't last the season. Perhaps the egg hasn't yet struck the face, but it's certainly travelling.

 

I know, I can't help it. It's an illness!

 

But I find it very hard to accept the idea that Mahrez didn't improve between when he signed and Pearson left. He went from the fringes of a Championship side to a key player in the in-form Premier League side. To not give Pearson credit for his progress is hugely unfair. I think the same applies to Drinkwater - just because he struggled last year in the top flight doesn't mean that his two improved performances immediately after the Pearson era have nothing to do with what he learnt during the previous three and a half seasons.

 

As for Okazaki, possibly even Kante and Benaloune, if they came to the club as a consequence of the scouting network which Pearson installed, then he'll deserve some credit for it. In all truth, his impact is bound to be felt for time to come - for better and, who knows, possibly for worse.

 

However the discussion you and I were having some time ago was about whether the board had got it right. I insisted back then that results would determine that, because we had no way of being able to say, based on the evidence at hand, that the sacking as an isolated decision was right. I'd agree these two results are a small step, but a massively important one, towards justifying that decision.

[The Horse's Mouth]

Pearson won't go there.

[inckley fox]

No, on both those occasions we were aiming for the promotion, he achieve it first time in league one, but took two and a half years to achieve it in the championship. With Sunderland he would have to starve off relegation in the premier league and would have less than a season to do it with the division's most out of form side. It's a totally different and much more difficult challenge than getting the best team in league one promoted.

 

I do however think there are two ways of looking at this. The majority of sides to get relegated to League One don't come straight back. The likes of Leeds United, Sheffield Wednesday, Cov have discovered this at their expense. We had invested significantly in the squad but Fryatt had yet to get going at any level until Pearson arrived, King and Gradel were yet to emerge as first team regulars and the additions he made - specifically Hobbs, Dyer and Tunchev - were crucial to us going back up after half a decade of decline at the club.

 

There was every risk that we'd completely fall apart in 2008, so I don't think it's wise to understate how impressive a job he did. 

 

On the other hand, while I agree that the Sunderland job is a very different poisoned chalice to the Leicester job back then, we have to remember that they have stayed up for the past eight seasons. Whereas at Leicester he had to turn around rather than maintain the club's achievements over the past 5 years and pull off a feat in 'bouncing back' which most managers fail to pull off; at Sunderland, by contrast, he'd be a success if he simply did what they've managed to do for the past 8 years.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

A certain amount of irony in this post. Many posters who doubted Pearson's ability when we were bottom for 5 months were labelled 'doom and gloom merchants', 'mo*gs', 'haters' and were accused of wanting the team to lose. Now we're playing great football many of the same posters who defended Pearson are telling us not to get too excited, to reserve judgement etc. Some posters even stated at the start of the season that they weren't particularly excited about the coming campaign because we had changed managers.

Pearson was great. Can't be ding with this emotional over-attachment though.

Good post.

[inckley fox]

Agree with everything you say, and I do credit him for bringing them in. I just don't agree with the personal credit he gets for every signing. the scouting team, who are LCFC employees deserve that.

 

So you do credit him but you don't?!

 

He installed a team of scouts. As he explained himself, he'd tell those scouts what they needed and give the green light to the potential transfers he approved of once he'd looked at videos of the players. They'd sign only when he'd interviewed them. I'd say that's a personal contribution for which he deserved personal credit. It doesn't exclude the scouts from getting credit too.

 

And, even though it was Pearson's specifications, scouting team and say-so which identified Kante as a target, Ranieri will also deserve some credit for reviewing the transfer and - if he has the same powers as Pearson enjoyed - giving it the green light.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

I'm struggling to think of an example of anyone who hasn't praised the performances he's got out of the team so far.

 

By the way, DT and Col's other example, Mattp, posted this after the Sunderland game...

 

 

So yeah, maybe Col and DT should have a little think about whether it'd be worth saying sorry.

Were you not the one who predicted we would finish last this season, as soon as we changed managers, and before a ball was even kicked?

You would not have said that if Pearson was still here, and you know you wouldn't.

 

Sour grapes, eh Mark?

[ImBlue]

So you do credit him but you don't?!

He installed a team of scouts. As he explained himself, he'd tell those scouts what they needed and give the green light to the potential transfers he approved of once he'd looked at videos of the players. They'd sign only when he'd interviewed them. I'd say that's a personal contribution for which he deserved personal credit. It doesn't exclude the scouts from getting credit too.

And, even though it was Pearson's specifications, scouting team and say-so which identified Kante as a target, Ranieri will also deserve some credit for reviewing the transfer and - if he has the same powers as Pearson enjoyed - giving it the green light.

The manager deserves credit for basically asking for good players, and giving 'the green light' when they've found a gem?

[inckley fox]

The manager deserves credit for basically asking for good players, and giving 'the green light' when they've found a gem?

 

Surely building a team is all about knowing what your team needs, specifying it to your scouts and, presented with a set of options (by people that you appointed), selecting the one which you consider would work best. If that player works out and the team is stronger as a consequence then you, as manager, get the credit for having built a team. I thought that was stating the obvious.

 

According to your argument scouts get the credit for team-building, the manager doesn't (unless he routinely goes out and identifies the players himself, which might have been the norm for Gillies in the 1960s when he'd miss our matches to scout players for other teams, but hasn't been for a good few years now). The reality is that, in this solitary respect, football management works in the same way as all other forms of management, in that you delegate certain tasks and, while the people you choose to delegate to get their share of the credit, the ultimate responsibility for whether it works out or not lies with you.

 

Your argument appears to be against the importance of managers in general when it comes to team-building. You are saying that the man who identifies shortcomings in a squad, provides scouts with a list of prerequisites for new players, looks at videos of the players they identify to single out priority signings, then interviews the player and persuades them to join, should get less credit than the person - who said manager previously appointed - who takes that list and comes up with a bunch of suggestions.

[Babylon]

The manager deserves credit for basically asking for good players, and giving 'the green light' when they've found a gem?

But you can strip away credit from most things if you want, because he personally doesn't do a lot of stuff.

 

Can't give Pearson credit for players being fit, he doesn't personally make them their protein shakes and tell then how much leg work, or running, or weights they need to do.

Can't give Pearson credit for players not picking up injuries as he personally doesn't plunge them into Ice baths.

 

I'm sure everyone is aware there are a lot of things he won't do himself. Reality is, he was the man at the top who put all of these things in place. Without him, the team we think is so great wouldn't be there. So he is ultimately responsible for it.

[Soar Fox]

But you can strip away credit from most things if you want, because he personally doesn't do a lot of stuff.

Can't give Pearson credit for players being fit, he doesn't personally make them their protein shakes and tell then how much leg work, or running, or weights they need to do.

Can't give Pearson credit for players not picking up injuries as he personally doesn't plunge them into Ice baths.

I'm sure everyone is aware there are a lot of things he won't do himself. Reality is, he was the man at the top who put all of these things in place. Without him, the team we think is so great wouldn't be there. So he is ultimately responsible for it.

Funny thing is though that whenever we lost it was all Pearson's fault.

When we win it's the scouts who get praised for finding a Mahrez or a Vardy.

[dylanlegend]

so leicester are doing well yet theres still pro pearson actively worshipping him and saying were top coz off him!! .. heard it all now i can die lol'in

Maybe that's what will happen when a thread called Ranieri v Pearson is started. And people making out Ranieri is the messiah. Like it or not this is not a CR team yet and it won't be until at least 12 months or so