The Politics Thread

[MooseBreath]

How many people and in what situation do working people get tax credits. I know when I was low paid I never qualified for any benefits of any kind so I can't imagine there are a great number of people to which that will apply.

[Alf Bentley]

How many people and in what situation do working people get tax credits. I know when I was low paid I never qualified for any benefits of any kind so I can't imagine there are a great number of people to which that will apply.

 

Situation depends on family status and you have to be working a minimum number of hours, so complicated.

 

But, very roughly:

- A single person working at least 16 hours and earning less than £15k will get a significant amount in working tax credits;

- A small family where both parents are working (combined 24 hours, with at least one working 16 hours, I think) and household income is less than about £22k will get a significant amount in child tax credits

- A large family will still get a significant amount at about £25k;

- Smaller amounts will be payable to single people on just over £15k, small families on £20-£25k and large families on a bit more than that 

 

I don't have figures - or time to look for them - but millions of households will come into one or other of those categories, so it has the potential to be a big issue (and a big vote winner/loser).

 

I'm actually in favour of this move to switch income from the state to employers by boosting low pay and cutting tax credits (though raising income tax thresholds may not be the most tax-efficient way of doing it, as it benefits reasonably well-off people, too).

 

The problem comes if the switch from tax credits to higher pay and lower tax leaves a lot of working people worse off. That may not be the case in 2-3 years time, but most analysts reckon it WILL be the case for a couple of years, at least./

[Fox92]

Spot on from Theresa May.

 

"Even if we could manage all the consequences of mass immigration, Britain does not need net migration in the hundreds of thousands every year. Of course, immigrants fill skills shortages and it’s right that we should try to attract the best talent in the world, but not every person coming to Britain right now is a skilled electrician, engineer or doctor"

[MooseBreath]

I've just been playing around on the government's tax credit calculator and it says a single person with no kids on £13k will get about £30 a year in working tax credits.

A couple with one child and one parent earning £15k full time and the other earning £5k part time will receive no working tax credits at all, and just over £1k in child tax credits.

These are small sums and only apply to people at the bottom of the salary scale. I can't see how they will be worse off with pay rises and tax cuts even if those tax credits are removed entirely.

[SMX11]

May is only posturing, she like many others in the Conservative party benefit from mass immigration.

[DennisNedry]

I think FoxesTalk may be one of the most left wing platforms I've ever been a part of.

Even the Guardian comments (Yes, the Guardian!) are fully behind Theresa May!

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/06/theresa-may-to-tell-tory-conference-that-mass-migration-threatens-uk-cohesion#comments

[Webbo]

I think FoxesTalk may be one of the most left wing platforms I've ever been a part of.

Even the Guardian comments (Yes, the Guardian!) are fully behind Theresa May!

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/06/theresa-may-to-tell-tory-conference-that-mass-migration-threatens-uk-cohesion#comments

You shouldn't judge a paper by the people who comment on their website.

[leicsmac]

I think FoxesTalk may be one of the most left wing platforms I've ever been a part of.

Even the Guardian comments (Yes, the Guardian!) are fully behind Theresa May!

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/06/theresa-may-to-tell-tory-conference-that-mass-migration-threatens-uk-cohesion#comments

Is this up there with 'Kermo Was Decent'?

[DennisNedry]

You shouldn't judge a paper by the people who comment on their website.

 

Not entirely, but you can build a picture.

 

The top comments on the Daily Mail are always right wing, the Guardian usually very anti-tory and left wing. Seems to me that a lot of left wingers are finally realising the damage mass immigration does to the working class and the poorest in the country. It only really benefits (ironically) Tories who exploit the cheap labour.

[Webbo]

Not entirely, but you can build a picture.

 

The top comments on the Daily Mail are always right wing, the Guardian usually very anti-tory and left wing. Seems to me that a lot of left wingers are finally realising the damage mass immigration does to the working class and the poorest in the country. It only really benefits (ironically) Tories who exploit the cheap labour.

How do the tories exploit cheap labour?

[Alf Bentley]

I've just been playing around on the government's tax credit calculator and it says a single person with no kids on £13k will get about £30 a year in working tax credits.

A couple with one child and one parent earning £15k full time and the other earning £5k part time will receive no working tax credits at all, and just over £1k in child tax credits.

These are small sums and only apply to people at the bottom of the salary scale. I can't see how they will be worse off with pay rises and tax cuts even if those tax credits are removed entirely.

 

 

I'm surprised at the first one. The second one sounds about right.

 

If you're a family on £20k, losing £1k is no small loss....and remember that not everyone will get a compensatory pay rise (e.g. self-employed, those already on more than minimum wage - though hopefully there'd be some knock-on increase).

 

I've just checked and the ONS site quotes the 2014 MEDIAN wage for F/T employees as £26k-odd: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/ashe/annual-survey-of-hours-and-earnings/2014-provisional-results/stb-ashe-statistical-bulletin-2014.html

In other words, 50% of F/T employees earn LESS than £26k-odd....and that's not including P/T workers! So, the changes will not just affect people at the bottom of the salary scale.

[MooseBreath]

I'm surprised at the first one. The second one sounds about right.

If you're a family on £20k, losing £1k is no small loss....and remember that not everyone will get a compensatory pay rise (e.g. self-employed, those already on more than minimum wage - though hopefully there'd be some knock-on increase).

I've just checked and the ONS site quotes the 2014 MEDIAN wage for F/T employees as £26k-odd: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/ashe/annual-survey-of-hours-and-earnings/2014-provisional-results/stb-ashe-statistical-bulletin-2014.html

In other words, 50% of F/T employees earn LESS than £26k-odd....and that's not including P/T workers! So, the changes will not just affect people at the bottom of the salary scale.

I'm still not convinced. I put a family with one child into the calculator where one parent earned the average £26k and the other partner worked part time for £5k, which I think must make them below average as a household and they were entitled to no tax credits of any kind. Looks to me that this only effects the very bottom of the salary scale, those people who have already and will continue to benefit most from the increase in the minimum wage and tax free allowance.

[Guest MattP]

So pretty much the capacity of Manchester Central then. 

 

But what's your point?  Are you somehow suggesting that Corbyn is set to win double the votes of the Conservatives in the next election?  Have you not looked at a single opinion poll since he took control of Labour?  Let me remind you, he is the FIRST Labour leader to ever score a negative debut poll rating and has received the worst ratings for a Labour leader in 60 years. 

 

You are wasting your time here mate.

 

I was having the same conversation with a Corbyn supporter in the pub at the weekend, he was genuinely trying to claim that the Labour leadership election will reflect the 2020 one, kept on saying if Corbyn can get 53% of the national vote he'll win 500 seats, everytime I pointed out that those who vote in the Labour leadership election are not representative of the country he scoffed at it and said I was believing the establishment and the right wing media, you can't argue with these people.

 

OK, this is partly the raw personal politics of Boris positioning himself to challenge Osborne for the succession, but interesting: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1ee67d80-6b91-11e5-aca9-d87542bf8673.html#axzz3nlqu3fYf

 

I've not studied the detailed figures, but most experts believe that, in the short-term at least, a lot of working people are going to be worse off by losing more in tax credits than they gain from an increased minimum wage and higher income tax threshold. If so, Osborne is presumably gambling that people will take that hit in the next couple of years, but will have forgotten about it and be better off by 2020. Boris presumably thinks that this could make the Tories quite unpopular in the short-term, maybe sufficiently so for him to use the issue to beat Osborne to the leadership. I presume, though, that Cameron will stay for at least 3 years, unless he campaigns to stay in the EU and loses the referendum....

 

I wouldn't actually mind the Tories being unpopular for the next couple of years, get Cameron in a weaker position for the European referendum, also maybe Labour increase slightly in the polls giving them some sort of hope that Corbyn could actually do something, then George can turn into Father Christmas again around 18 months from the May 2020 election, strategy is everything.

 

Corbyn will probably still be protesting and waiting to have his "debates" in a couple of years anyway.

 

May is only posturing, she like many others in the Conservative party benefit from mass immigration.

 

Exactly, every now and then Cameron gers a minister to come out and say something like this to make it sound like the Tories are against mass-immigration, they simply aren't.

[Guest MattP]

OK yes. There is more news being reported about these people and I agree about the worst elements overshadowing them. Here  is one reason why people are becoming upset. This woman lost a disabled  loved one not long after he was passed fit by Atos. She confronted a MP at the conference and was told to eff off. And when she mentioned her loss he replied good.

Does this demonstrate that he cares about those most vulnerable? There are many stories like this so it is obvious that a lot more MP's are going to be thought of the same. Some do not think before they open their mouth unfortunately.

 

 

She looks absolutely nuts though doesn't she? Why would anyone believe a word that she said?

 

How do you actually die from a benefit cut anyway? No one has still explained this.

[MooseBreath]

Probably spent several hundred quid on that ridiculous hair cut and then has the cheek to claim she can't afford food

[bovril]

She looks like the alien from Independence Day.

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

She looks like my dog's shit after eating grass all afternoon

[MooseBreath]

She looks like she has been master baying with those dreadlocks while on her period. No doubt a 'statement' of some sort. I'd expect to see blood smeared all over the walls of the men's toilet in the nearby Starbucks. Another statement.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Have we had this?

Seems like a nice lad:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34439965

[purpleronnie]

Single mum moved to tears as she learns of George Osborne's tax credit cuts

 

Nicola Marshall was 18 years old last time the Conservatives held a party conference as the sole party of government.

She is now 37. In the time in between, she has had a well-paid sales job, been married and had a child.

“But life happens to people,” she says. “And it’s not always how you planned it.”

Almost two decades on, Nicola is a separated single mother with an 11-year-old daughter, Lily.

But being a lone parent has meant Nicola couldn’t manage the long hours and travel of her old job.

So she works part-time and scrapes by on tax credits – the family support George Osborne cruelly axed in his post-election Budget .

“Since I heard about the cuts, I’ve been really anxious,” Nicola says. “When you are a single parent, everything is on your shoulders. I am going to bed and literally having sleepless nights worrying.

“I’m not saying we’re living in poverty, but every day is a struggle. This is what I need to spend on food, this is what I’ve got left.

"I’ve no spare money, so I worry I would be one of those people who has to choose between heat or eat.

“As it is, Lily is about to go to secondary school and I don’t know how I’m going to afford the uniform.”

The Tories slashed tax credits as part of a raft of cuts enacted in July's hated Welfare Bill.

More than three million low-paid Brits will get a letter from the Treasury just before Christmas, telling them their income will be slashed by up to £1,350 a year.

When the cuts were announced, Nicola appeared in a moving video made by the campaigning group 38 degrees and the lone parents’ charity Gingerbread.

They described it on their Facebook page as “the video George Osborne wishes we hadn’t made”.

Certainly Osborne may wish he could forget Nicola Marshall. Almost 300,000 people signed the petition alongside it – “George Osborne: No more kids in poverty. Please don’t cut child tax credit”.

In the film, Nicola is moved to tears talking about her fears for the future.

“I really didn’t mean to cry, but I couldn’t help it,” she tells me. “It brought it all home. I feel like my life is being controlled by people who have no idea what it’s like to live in this kind of struggle, worry and massive stress.”

Her daughter Lily says she knows how sad and worried her mum is. She tells the camera: “Children need a happy family and they need shelter, food and water.”

This morning, the Chancellor was forced to admit one in ten families will be worse off as a result of losing tax credits - even when increases to the minimum wage and income tax cuts are taken into account.

A report by the House of Commons library into the impact of the so-called 'national Living Wage' concluded it would be "significantly smaller than cuts to in-work benefits".

It found the increase in minimum wage for the over 25s would have the greatest impact on middle earners, and make only a tiny difference to the lowest income families.

And the cuts to tax credits were shown to hit the poorest hardest by far.

Citing research from the Resolution Foundation, it said: "significant numbers of households will experience income losses associated with benefit cuts without any accompanying increase in their wages."

“I’m not stupid,” Nicola says. “I can see they are cutting taxes for richer people but taking money away from people who can’t afford it.

“I would just say to George Osborne that life isn’t black and white. You shouldn’t judge people by the things that have happened to them.”

Nicola lives in a safe Tory seat near Sevenoaks in Kent. She is “hard-working people” – doing 21 hours work at a company that supplies and fits showers, and fitting that work around looking after her daughter.

Her ex-husband does what he can to help support the family but he also has little left after paying the bills.

Nicola says: “I’ve always worked hard, I just haven’t had good luck,” she says. “The Government keeps talking about making it fair for people who pay their taxes – well, I pay my taxes.”

What scares Nicola most is that she would have no way to make up the money through taking on extra hours.

“If I earn more it just gets taken off my housing benefit,” she says. “So I would just have to cut back on essential things or go into debt. You are just trapped.”

She wonders if a trust-fund Chancellor like the baronet George Osborne can really understand what life is like for a single mum from Kent.

“The Chancellor has led a very privileged life and so have most of the Cabinet. How can they know what it’s like?” she says.

“But I also actually question their morals. The Government has encouraged this idea that people who receive benefit are just feckless scroungers.

"People who don’t open their curtains. They are turning the country into a place with no compassion.”

Are you frightened of what Osborne's Budget could do for your finances?

[Rincewind]

Good post Ronnie.

 

'Then they came for me but there was no-one left to help'.

[purpleronnie]

Good post Ronnie.

 

'Then they came for me but there was no-one left to help'.

But ken it's all Labours fault for messing up the welfare system so they HAVE to do this.   They are the working peoples party afterall.

[Claridge]

 

Single mum moved to tears as she learns of George Osborne's tax credit cuts

 

 

Nicola Marshall was 18 years old last time the Conservatives held a party conference as the sole party of government.

She is now 37. In the time in between, she has had a well-paid sales job, been married and had a child.

“But life happens to people,” she says. “And it’s not always how you planned it.”

Almost two decades on, Nicola is a separated single mother with an 11-year-old daughter, Lily.

But being a lone parent has meant Nicola couldn’t manage the long hours and travel of her old job.

So she works part-time and scrapes by on tax credits – the family support George Osborne cruelly axed in his post-election Budget .

“Since I heard about the cuts, I’ve been really anxious,” Nicola says. “When you are a single parent, everything is on your shoulders. I am going to bed and literally having sleepless nights worrying.

“I’m not saying we’re living in poverty, but every day is a struggle. This is what I need to spend on food, this is what I’ve got left.

"I’ve no spare money, so I worry I would be one of those people who has to choose between heat or eat.

“As it is, Lily is about to go to secondary school and I don’t know how I’m going to afford the uniform.”

The Tories slashed tax credits as part of a raft of cuts enacted in July's hated Welfare Bill.

More than three million low-paid Brits will get a letter from the Treasury just before Christmas, telling them their income will be slashed by up to £1,350 a year.

When the cuts were announced, Nicola appeared in a moving video made by the campaigning group 38 degrees and the lone parents’ charity Gingerbread.

They described it on their Facebook page as “the video George Osborne wishes we hadn’t made”.

Certainly Osborne may wish he could forget Nicola Marshall. Almost 300,000 people signed the petition alongside it – “George Osborne: No more kids in poverty. Please don’t cut child tax credit”.

In the film, Nicola is moved to tears talking about her fears for the future.

“I really didn’t mean to cry, but I couldn’t help it,” she tells me. “It brought it all home. I feel like my life is being controlled by people who have no idea what it’s like to live in this kind of struggle, worry and massive stress.”

Her daughter Lily says she knows how sad and worried her mum is. She tells the camera: “Children need a happy family and they need shelter, food and water.”

This morning, the Chancellor was forced to admit one in ten families will be worse off as a result of losing tax credits - even when increases to the minimum wage and income tax cuts are taken into account.

A report by the House of Commons library into the impact of the so-called 'national Living Wage' concluded it would be "significantly smaller than cuts to in-work benefits".

It found the increase in minimum wage for the over 25s would have the greatest impact on middle earners, and make only a tiny difference to the lowest income families.

And the cuts to tax credits were shown to hit the poorest hardest by far.

Citing research from the Resolution Foundation, it said: "significant numbers of households will experience income losses associated with benefit cuts without any accompanying increase in their wages."

“I’m not stupid,” Nicola says. “I can see they are cutting taxes for richer people but taking money away from people who can’t afford it.

“I would just say to George Osborne that life isn’t black and white. You shouldn’t judge people by the things that have happened to them.”

Nicola lives in a safe Tory seat near Sevenoaks in Kent. She is “hard-working people” – doing 21 hours work at a company that supplies and fits showers, and fitting that work around looking after her daughter.

Her ex-husband does what he can to help support the family but he also has little left after paying the bills.

Nicola says: “I’ve always worked hard, I just haven’t had good luck,” she says. “The Government keeps talking about making it fair for people who pay their taxes – well, I pay my taxes.”

What scares Nicola most is that she would have no way to make up the money through taking on extra hours.

“If I earn more it just gets taken off my housing benefit,” she says. “So I would just have to cut back on essential things or go into debt. You are just trapped.”

She wonders if a trust-fund Chancellor like the baronet George Osborne can really understand what life is like for a single mum from Kent.

“The Chancellor has led a very privileged life and so have most of the Cabinet. How can they know what it’s like?” she says.

“But I also actually question their morals. The Government has encouraged this idea that people who receive benefit are just feckless scroungers.

"People who don’t open their curtains. They are turning the country into a place with no compassion.”

Are you frightened of what Osborne's Budget could do for your finances?

 

Surprised the parents didn't stay together for the sake of the child.Benefit system allows feckless parents to split up at the drop of a hat. I know people on here will go on about 'we don't know what happened' but the system allows people to blame others without first looking at themselves. I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for her

[Guest MattP]

Oh god here come the sob stories again.

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

It's always someone else's fault. If Labour were in power everyone would be minted wouldn't they? That's how it works