ozleicester Posted 30 April 2016 Posted 30 April 2016 Lets get this straight, there is no fate! Saying we are going to win the league is not tempting fate, having the trophy in the city will not stop us winning it, doing the conga will not mean we will suddenly become sh*t and lose the league. If you believe in fate, then there is no point in watching the game, or sitting through the season, fate will have decreed whether we win the game and win the league. **** you fate. We're gonna win the league, I know you dont believe me... we're gonna win the league.
ithuriel Posted 30 April 2016 Posted 30 April 2016 Fate, is there such a thing? Looking back on history, then probably, unless history can be altered or there is a multiverse for every possibility but we can never know because we are linear and can never know what is fated until after the event.
Fox92 Posted 30 April 2016 Posted 30 April 2016 Fate, luck - it's not real. It's just that we have rituals we believe work. Pretty sure they actually have no outcome on the results, 11 players and the manager decide the outcome.
stevelcfc Posted 30 April 2016 Posted 30 April 2016 Its the same with luck. There is not such thing as luck. If the ball goes in its because certain physical things have happened for that outcome, luck played no part.
m4DD0gg Posted 30 April 2016 Posted 30 April 2016 Nothing to do with fate, to do with getting 3 more points.
leicsmac Posted 30 April 2016 Posted 30 April 2016 Au contraire, the movements and actions of every elementary particle in the Universe are down to luck. That's quantum mechanics 101. The physics of every particle, and so that of everything above them, is down to chance. So yes, our winning the title is entirely down to luck. Fate, however, has no part in it. As the universe is impossible to predict with any degree of certainty, there is no such thing.
foxy boxing Posted 30 April 2016 Posted 30 April 2016 There is no fate it is what u make of opportunities and the foxes have made the most of theirs some people will say we have been fortunate but we have capitalised on that good fortune but ultimately it is down to our belief
SpinneyHillRanger Posted 30 April 2016 Posted 30 April 2016 If anything this season (and the backend of last season)has taught us, is that there was s something.... Whether you want to call it God, karma, fate, magic, some bigger power..... Something that makes miracles like this happen.
leicsmac Posted 30 April 2016 Posted 30 April 2016 If anything this season (and the backend of last season)has taught us, is that there was s something.... Whether you want to call it God, karma, fate, magic, some bigger power..... Something that makes miracles like this happen. Nope. Just the random actions of chance, which is what the Universe runs on. If indeed there is some higher power like that its actions are indistinguishable from nature, and the idea of such an entity using the universe as the biggest reality TV show ever is appalling.
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 30 April 2016 Posted 30 April 2016 Lets get this straight, there is no fate! Saying we are going to win the league is not tempting fate, having the trophy in the city will not stop us winning it, doing the conga will not mean we will suddenly become sh*t and lose the league. If you believe in fate, then there is no point in watching the game, or sitting through the season, fate will have decreed whether we win the game and win the league. **** you fate. We're gonna win the league, I know you dont believe me... we're gonna win the league. "We're gonna win the league"! We shall just have to wait and see what providence has in store for us!
john ridley Posted 30 April 2016 Posted 30 April 2016 Is it fate that vardy broke the scoring record against Man Utd of all teams,and that Claudio will lift the Premier league trophy at Stamford Bridge or just a coincidence? .
Webbo Posted 30 April 2016 Posted 30 April 2016 This is fate. Maybe not in the way the OP meant but this is a culmination of everything that has happened in the years previous. Brian Little taking us to the PL. McGhee pissing off leading to O'Neil. The league cup wins that raised our profile. Taylor bankrupting the club that eventually led to Mandaric. Mandaric appoints Pearson and sells to the Thais. Pearson's son getting Pearson sacked leading to Ranieri. It may seem a bit contrived but I honestly believe that chain of events has led us to where we are now.
Alf Bentley Posted 30 April 2016 Posted 30 April 2016 I believe in fate. The outcome of the Premier League season is determined. It's just that we don't have the information available to know what it is yet. Will it affect fate if fans had their photos taken with the trophy yesterday? Almost certainly not, unless Pocchettino, Van Gaal or other opposing managers are able to use such photos to motivate their teams....and in that case, the actions of the fans and of the opposing managers will also have been determined by pre-existing factors. Fate is out there. We are just waiting to discover it. However, if fate is set to determine that we fail, those fans who had their photos taken with the trophy will end up being laughed at (or laughing painfully at themselves, depending on their attitudes). Maybe fans can influence fate at the margins by singing loudly, confidently, defiantly at our matches, particularly if we go behind. Fate will mainly depend on the players and staff of our club and others. Maybe one or more of our players - or Spurs' players or Man Utd's players - will suddenly fail psychologically, lose confidence and perform badly, make poor decisions or perform imperfect actions at critical moments. For us to lose the title now, that would have to happen with several LCFC players and/or in all 3 matches while there is no similar meltdown at Spurs, Man Utd, Southampton or Newcastle etc. I believe that we will win the title. We have a decent chance at Old Trafford. Then we have a decent chance when Spurs go to Chelsea. Then we have an excellent chance when we play Everton. Then we have a decent chance when Spurs play Saints. Then we have a good dual chance on the last day of the season. We need 1 of 6 games to go right (ignoring the complication of draws). Spurs need 6 of 6 games to go right. I'm feeling relaxed. I'm expecting our fate to be good, it's just not guaranteed yet.. I expect to be greatly enjoying fate at some point in the next 7 days, very possibly as early as tomorrow. If not, as Pearson used to say: "we move on"....to tackle the next bit of fate as well as we can. Fate, I accept you, delude myself that I can influence you, laugh at you and enjoy you.
Alf Bentley Posted 30 April 2016 Posted 30 April 2016 "We're gonna win the league"! We shall just have to wait and see what providence has in store for us! +1 to Dangerous Tigger!
leicsmac Posted 30 April 2016 Posted 30 April 2016 I believe in fate. The outcome of the Premier League season is determined. It's just that we don't have the information available to know what it is yet. Will it affect fate if fans had their photos taken with the trophy yesterday? Almost certainly not, unless Pocchettino, Van Gaal or other opposing managers are able to use such photos to motivate their teams....and in that case, the actions of the fans and of the opposing managers will also have been determined by pre-existing factors. Fate is out there. We are just waiting to discover it. However, if fate is set to determine that we fail, those fans who had their photos taken with the trophy will end up being laughed at (or laughing painfully at themselves, depending on their attitudes). Maybe fans can influence fate at the margins by singing loudly, confidently, defiantly at our matches, particularly if we go behind. Fate will mainly depend on the players and staff of our club and others. Maybe one or more of our players - or Spurs' players or Man Utd's players - will suddenly fail psychologically, lose confidence and perform badly, make poor decisions or perform imperfect actions at critical moments. For us to lose the title now, that would have to happen with several LCFC players and/or in all 3 matches while there is no similar meltdown at Spurs, Man Utd, Southampton or Newcastle etc. I believe that we will win the title. We have a decent chance at Old Trafford. Then we have a decent chance when Spurs go to Chelsea. Then we have an excellent chance when we play Everton. Then we have a decent chance when Spurs play Saints. Then we have a good dual chance on the last day of the season. We need 1 of 6 games to go right (ignoring the complication of draws). Spurs need 6 of 6 games to go right. I'm feeling relaxed. I'm expecting our fate to be good, it's just not guaranteed yet.. I expect to be greatly enjoying fate at some point in the next 7 days, very possibly as early as tomorrow. If not, as Pearson used to say: "we move on"....to tackle the next bit of fate as well as we can. Fate, I accept you, delude myself that I can influence you, laugh at you and enjoy you. Interested in hearing you say that, Alf. Can you elaborate at all on why you believe that?
SpinneyHillRanger Posted 30 April 2016 Posted 30 April 2016 I also think that if enough people start hoping we win, it helps us win.... Don't get me wrong taking nothing away from talent, technique, tactics and skills of the players and team.... But that extra luck, fate or whatever you want to call it does come into play... It the kind of thing that makes mane hit Simpson when in front of open goal, that makes rodwell miss a gaping goal, that header that hits both posts and doesn't go in for West ham.... When enough people beleive in the miracle, its like the miracle is willed by that greater power behind it all. Even ranieri said he feels the force of the support from around the world. Parading with the trophy is definitely tempting "fate"
leicsmac Posted 30 April 2016 Posted 30 April 2016 By the by, this is a fantastic discussion to be having on a Saturday evening with a beer in hand.
ozleicester Posted 30 April 2016 Author Posted 30 April 2016 I also think that if enough people start hoping we win, it helps us win.... Don't get me wrong taking nothing away from talent, technique, tactics and skills of the players and team.... But that extra luck, fate or whatever you want to call it does come into play... It the kind of thing that makes mane hit Simpson when in front of open goal, that makes rodwell miss a gaping goal, that header that hits both posts and doesn't go in for West ham.... When enough people beleive in the miracle, its like the miracle is willed by that greater power behind it all. Even ranieri said he feels the force of the support from around the world. Parading with the trophy is definitely tempting "fate" If any of your first paragraph were true, and that was fate that made these things happen, then your final line contradicts everything else
Carl the Llama Posted 30 April 2016 Posted 30 April 2016 The truth is that both Alf and Mac are right. Humans follow courses of action pre-determined by their own unique chemical balance and the pre-determined way those chemicals react to various stimuli. You may think you're taking control of your life with certain decisions that you make but you're only really affecting a pre-determined reaction to external events you had no control over which led you to the decision in the first place. It's also true that quantum mechanics appear to be entirely random to creatures with our faculties for observation of the materials of the universe and the passage of time within it.
Alf Bentley Posted 30 April 2016 Posted 30 April 2016 Interested in hearing you say that, Alf. Can you elaborate at all on why you believe that? - A Philosophy class when I was 18. We were introduced to concepts of determinism / behaviourism espoused by B.F. Skinner (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner). The expectation of the lecturer was that we should reject them in favour of existentialist ideas of free will. It was pre-determined that I had the contrary tendency to kick against this (though others might mistakenly view this is free will ). I found Skinner's ideas quite convincing (though not all of their uses - they had some dodgy applications, I think). I particularly liked determinism in tandem with the concept of "the necessary delusion of free will" (cannot remember which philosopher came up with that one). - More generally, I suppose that I like the combination of order and anarchy implicit in a determined but unknown progression of life. Our individual lives are objectively of almost zero importance (grains of sand on the beach) yet subjectively precious beyond belief. I find that immensely moving (and tragic) yet also hilarious and liberating beyond belief. Life with a knowledge of pre-determined fate would be a nightmare, though. We need the delusion of uncertainty and free will. p.s. I must stop taking these drugs. p.p.s. WE'RE GONNA WIN THE LEAGUE!!! (probably, but I'm not guaranteeing it at any particular time)
norwichfox Posted 30 April 2016 Posted 30 April 2016 - A Philosophy class when I was 18. p.p.s. WE'RE GONNA WIN THE LEAGUE!!! (probably, but I'm not guaranteeing it at any particular time) Philosophy hadn't been invented when I was 18
leicsmac Posted 30 April 2016 Posted 30 April 2016 - A Philosophy class when I was 18. We were introduced to concepts of determinism / behaviourism espoused by B.F. Skinner (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner). The expectation of the lecturer was that we should reject them in favour of existentialist ideas of free will. It was pre-determined that I had the contrary tendency to kick against this (though others might mistakenly view this is free will ). I found Skinner's ideas quite convincing (though not all of their uses - they had some dodgy applications, I think). I particularly liked determinism in tandem with the concept of "the necessary delusion of free will" (cannot remember which philosopher came up with that one). - More generally, I suppose that I like the combination of order and anarchy implicit in a determined but unknown progression of life. Our individual lives are objectively of almost zero importance (grains of sand on the beach) yet subjectively precious beyond belief. I find that immensely moving (and tragic) yet also hilarious and liberating beyond belief. Life with a knowledge of pre-determined fate would be a nightmare, though. We need the delusion of uncertainty and free will. p.s. I must stop taking these drugs. p.p.s. WE'RE GONNA WIN THE LEAGUE!!! (probably, but I'm not guaranteeing it at any particular time) Interesting stuff. Everything I've learned about quantum mechanics and how it affects things at a macroscopic level makes me think that luck and free will are what guide the Universe though.
Carl the Llama Posted 30 April 2016 Posted 30 April 2016 Interesting stuff. Everything I've learned about quantum mechanics and how it affects things at a macroscopic level makes me think that luck and free will are what guide the Universe though. ...because it's necessary for you to do so.
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