Leicestershire Police bosses would consider including the burka in the uniform

[davieG]

Leicestershire's chief constable and its police and crime commissioner have said they would both consider Muslim officers' wishes to wear full Islamic dress while on duty.

The controversial topic was brought to public attention last week when West Midlands Police said it would allow female officers to wear a full-face veil, after it launched a recruitment drive to increase diversity.

The news drew criticism from a number of public figures and organisations, including MP David Davies, who worked as a police officer in London for nine years.

He was reportedly "horrified" by the suggestion.

However, the county's top cop Simon Cole and PCC boss Lord Willy Bach have been more open.

They said if a member of the force asked to incorporate the burka into their uniform their request would be considered.

Read more: 'I acted on instinct': Good Samaritan councillor beaten up after helping threatened woman

Mr Cole said: "We have been made aware of discussions in other police forces regarding incorporating burkas into police uniform.

"It is not something that Leicestershire Police has been asked to consider by an officer or a potential recruit.

"If such a request was made, it would be considered in line with force policies."

Lord Bach told the Mercury he would be "sympathetic" to the idea. A spokeswoman for Leicestershire Police said there had been no requests by staff to add the veil to their uniform.

 

The Mercury asked to speak to the force's Association of Muslim Officers, the official body which represents Leicestershire's Muslim police, but its acting chairman said he was not in a position to comment.

Suleman Nagdi, spokesman for the Leicestershire Federation of Muslim Organisations, said common sense was needed when considering the proposal.

Read more: Leicestershire Police to recruit 120 new officers - here's how to apply

"I'm not convinced whether it would work well with the kind of job we're talking about," said Suleman.

"Identification is crucial and this would cause difficulties for members of the public.

"Of course, I welcome the fact it is being considered.

"But I'm also trying to be practical."

Gush Bhumbra, president of the Leicester Secular Society, was also sceptical.

He said: "As a member of the public I want to see a face to comfort me in a stressful situation if I've been the victim of a crime or an accident and an officer behind a mask would not do that for me as much as normal face-to-face contact.

"I have been the victim of a crime and of a car accident and also an investigation by an officer following a false allegation.

"If those officers had been masked I would have been even more upset and stressed."

Read more at http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/leicestershire-police-bosses-would-consider-including-the-burka-in-the-uniform/story-29741425-detail/story.html#mbEjCVVWvgjVDHWt.99

[AKCJ]

Why not?

[AyewJoking]

[rico]

its a fair cop

 

[Soar Fox]

#BanTheBurka

[Dr The Singh]

Head dress is fine but full face veil I would struggle with.  Plus its not obligatory in the Islamic faith, so it's a non issue, or a choice of preference

[Lineker's Left Foot]

Why???

 

[Foxes1]

No Thanks

[Buce]

I'd like to know what @MattP and @Thracian think.

[bovril]

12 minutes ago, Buce said:

I'd like to know what @MattP and @Thracian think.

"having once worked as a policewoman in a burka I have to say...."

[Dr The Singh]

I look forward to stripagrams that are dressed as burka wearing police

[Dr The Singh]

Also the French banned burka/Burkini's but haven't banned burka porn???  WTF

[Great Boos Up]

So next we'll have burka beauty pageants. Shit my am I being politically correct and non offensive PC embarrassed white male guilt will implode. I think I will spontaneously combust!

[Strokes]

We should all wear them.

[Guest MattP]

14 hours ago, Buce said:

I'd like to know what @MattP and @Thracian think.

I think it's great, very progressive, I think it will be tremendous for community cohesion, nothing says trust like being arrested and locked in a cage by someone who won't even show you their face.

 

As Stokes says, we should all wear them, no racism, no sexism, it will be amazing.

[bovril]

We need to dedicate one round of the PL season when all players wear the burka. 

[Guest MattP]

1 minute ago, bovril said:

We need to dedicate one round of the PL season when all players wear the burka. 

If the city council had their way we would have ran out in turbans, burkas and yamakas on the first day of the season to show the World how diverse we are.

[Captain...]

I guess if the police feel they need to attract female muslim officers, to help police the muslim community, then it would be obtuse to not be flexible to their needs in terms of uniform.

 

Maybe in some ways we need to see veiled women doing jobs in order to accept it as "normal". Thinking about I have never seen a woman in a veil working. That along with having their face covered makes them very difficult to approach and probably  leads to some of the mistrust of the veil. I don't think I have ever even spoken to someone in a veil. If there was more everyday interaction then maybe it wouldn't be such an issue.

[Guest MattP]

2 minutes ago, Captain... said:

I guess if the police feel they need to attract female muslim officers, to help police the muslim community, then it would be obtuse to not be flexible to their needs in terms of uniform.

 

Maybe in some ways we need to see veiled women doing jobs in order to accept it as "normal". Thinking about I have never seen a woman in a veil working. That along with having their face covered makes them very difficult to approach and probably  leads to some of the mistrust of the veil. I don't think I have ever even spoken to someone in a veil. If there was more everyday interaction then maybe it wouldn't be such an issue.

I'd imagine if you go out in public with your face covered you arent really interested in having any interaction with the public.

 

I can only remember one occasion when I worked at Sainsburys as a student serving a woman in a veil she just ignored every question I asked her.

[Captain...]

Just now, MattP said:

I'd imagine if you go out in public with your face covered you arent really interested in having any interaction with the public.

 

I can only remember one occasion when I worked at Sainsburys as a student serving a woman in a veil she just ignored every question I asked her.

That's certainly the impression I get, maybe this is why the police need burka wearing women to actually be able to interact with the community.

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

15 minutes ago, Captain... said:

I don't think I have ever even spoken to someone in a veil. If there was more everyday interaction then maybe it wouldn't be such an issue.

It is incredibly hard to understand - it's not until you speak to someone in person with their face covered how much you rely on lip-reading, particularly if the person has English as a 2nd language or a thick accent

[Merging Cultures]

14 hours ago, Dr The Singh said:

I look forward to stripagrams that are dressed as burka wearing police

With the additional layer it would take forever to get to the good stuff.

 

50 minutes ago, Captain... said:

Maybe in some ways we need to see veiled women doing jobs in order to accept it as "normal". Thinking about I have never seen a woman in a veil working. That along with having their face covered makes them very difficult to approach and probably  leads to some of the mistrust of the veil. I don't think I have ever even spoken to someone in a veil. If there was more everyday interaction then maybe it wouldn't be such an issue.

I see what you mean on the first point. What we haven't experienced, e.g. veiled women doing 'regular' jobs, we would consider 'abnormal', until it because an everyday occurrence and therefore normal. But, as you mention, and it is a genuine question, do women wearing the full burka work? Or are they expected to stay at home and work managing the kids, cooking etc? Also, would they be allowed to touch a man to arrest him? If they worked at a supermarket, could the refuse to sell you alcohol and pork (I think that has been a discussion on here before). Would we then have halal tills at the supermarket? Could it go further, women's only tills? etc.

[Merging Cultures]

52 minutes ago, Captain... said:

That's certainly the impression I get, maybe this is why the police need burka wearing women to actually be able to interact with the community.

Another excellent point. They wouldn't be 'frontline' staff, but probably a special unit that can respond to specific issues.

[Captain...]

4 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

With the additional layer it would take forever to get to the good stuff.

 

I see what you mean on the first point. What we haven't experienced, e.g. veiled women doing 'regular' jobs, we would consider 'abnormal', until it because an everyday occurrence and therefore normal. But, as you mention, and it is a genuine question, do women wearing the full burka work? Or are they expected to stay at home and work managing the kids, cooking etc? Also, would they be allowed to touch a man to arrest him? If they worked at a supermarket, could the refuse to sell you alcohol and pork (I think that has been a discussion on here before). Would we then have halal tills at the supermarket? Could it go further, women's only tills? etc.

I don't  think any legislation that inefficient would ever be passed and not even the most lefty right on organisation would create Halal lanes and women only tills to accommodate a minority.

 

I grew up in Leicester and have lived in some of the more multicultural areas of London (Brentford, Lewisham, Finsbury Park, Hammersmith) and I have never been served by someone in a burka, I've been served by plenty of people wearing a headscarf but never anything that covers the face.

[Merging Cultures]

1 minute ago, Captain... said:

I don't  think any legislation that inefficient would ever be passed and not even the most lefty right on organisation would create Halal lanes and women only tills to accommodate a minority.

 

I grew up in Leicester and have lived in some of the more multicultural areas of London (Brentford, Lewisham, Finsbury Park, Hammersmith) and I have never been served by someone in a burka, I've been served by plenty of people wearing a headscarf but never anything that covers the face.

I agree on the legislation, but I can see certain segments of society using the introduction of the burka into more mainstream jobs as a way to generate fear.

 

I've worked in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nigeria, Sudan, Tanzania (and other countries with strong Islamic presence) and mostly never been served by a woman let alone one in a burka!

 

I've had the same in Leicester and London, mind you I never lived in the more multicultural parts of London you mentioned! Perhaps we will if the use of the burka (niqab I think is correct actually) does become mainstream, and I don't think I have a problem with it beyond basic trust and communication issues.