Rincewind Posted 23 September 2016 Posted 23 September 2016 I don't really see many women wearing Burkas. Although I did see a group in the restaurant near the clock towe. I wondered how they were going to eat with just the eyes visible but they just lifted the veil up to spoon food in. I don't think it would be widespread use. They are still human and have a right to enter the career that they want. Just because they feel the need to wear a burka should not restrict their choice. I cannot imagine them being sent to supervise an EDL march.
Guest MattP Posted 23 September 2016 Posted 23 September 2016 9 minutes ago, Rincewind said: I don't really see many women wearing Burkas. Although I did see a group in the restaurant near the clock towe. I wondered how they were going to eat with just the eyes visible but they just lifted the veil up to spoon food in. I don't think it would be widespread use. They are still human and have a right to enter the career that they want. Just because they feel the need to wear a burka should not restrict their choice. I cannot imagine them being sent to supervise an EDL march. Do you think the public have a right to see the faces of the people who police them?
Thracian Posted 23 September 2016 Posted 23 September 2016 We'll have footballers turning up next and wanting to play for Leicester in a morning suit.
Dr The Singh Posted 23 September 2016 Posted 23 September 2016 4 hours ago, Merging Cultures said: I agree on the legislation, but I can see certain segments of society using the introduction of the burka into more mainstream jobs as a way to generate fear. I've worked in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nigeria, Sudan, Tanzania (and other countries with strong Islamic presence) and mostly never been served by a woman let alone one in a burka! I've had the same in Leicester and London, mind you I never lived in the more multicultural parts of London you mentioned! Perhaps we will if the use of the burka (niqab I think is correct actually) does become mainstream, and I don't think I have a problem with it beyond basic trust and communication issues. Same, I have been to Pakistan twice, I have seen more burka wearing women in Leicester. I've worked with women that wear the full veil and it takes a lot getting used to. I don't know whether humanity is ready for faceless communication
Merging Cultures Posted 23 September 2016 Posted 23 September 2016 4 hours ago, Smudge said: Would they be working under cover? I don't know why you've not got any reps for this!
Smudge Posted 23 September 2016 Posted 23 September 2016 3 hours ago, Merging Cultures said: I don't know why you've not got any reps for this! Thanks MC. I'm here all week
Wymsey Posted 23 September 2016 Posted 23 September 2016 How can you prove the identity of that officer, if the arrested person believes they were wrongfully arrested/mistreated?
Vacamion Posted 24 September 2016 Posted 24 September 2016 I can't believe that this emoticon hasn't been more prominent in this thread. They can wear a veil when they arrest me, so long as I can wear a veil in the identity parade afterwards.
MPH Posted 24 September 2016 Posted 24 September 2016 If someone comes to your door claiming to be the police, you can ask them for ID can't you? How would you know they were real police? Same as someone just stopping you in the street... Seems to me to be a step too far..
Dr The Singh Posted 24 September 2016 Posted 24 September 2016 This type of performance would never have happened last season, we never would have readily spread our butt cheeks like that
Thracian Posted 25 September 2016 Posted 25 September 2016 On 9/24/2016 at 09:12, MPH said: If someone comes to your door claiming to be the police, you can ask them for ID can't you? How would you know they were real police? Same as someone just stopping you in the street... Seems to me to be a step too far.. Which means it will eventually be sanctioned by the inner wheels of controlled manipulation.
Finnegan Posted 25 September 2016 Posted 25 September 2016 On 23/09/2016 at 13:02, MattP said: Do you think the public have a right to see the faces of the people who police them? A small handful of Asian women with their names and numbers on their shoulders, it's not like Leicestershire is going to suddenly become full of masked and anonymous brutalist enforcers, is it? I'm pretty sure you can relax a little on the Judge Dredd paranoia. If it helps the police more effectively work with a target community that have historically been problematic then what's the issue?
DB11 Posted 25 September 2016 Posted 25 September 2016 Quote The facts about the “Burkah police uniform” debate Issued on 25/9/16 at 11:07 a.m. There are no plans to consider allowing Muslim female officers to wear a Burkah whilst on duty for Leicestershire Police. Some weeks ago, a story appeared in the media that suggested another Police Force in the country was considering the move. As a result of that story, a local journalist from Leicester contacted the force and asked us what our view was. In response, we provided the journalist with the following statement:“We have been made aware of discussions in other police forces regarding incorporating burkahs into police uniform. It is not something that Leicestershire Police has been asked to consider by an officer or by a police recruit. If such a request was made, it would be considered in line with the requirements of policing and the need to ensure officers have uniforms that are fit for purpose”. That is our position, and we are disappointed that some sections of the national media have chosen to interpret that statement in a way that is inaccurate and misleading. Leicestershire Police issue statement - https://leics.police.uk/news-appeals/news/2016/09/25/the-facts-about-the-burkah-police-uniform-debate
Thracian Posted 25 September 2016 Posted 25 September 2016 35 minutes ago, Finnegan said: A small handful of Asian women with their names and numbers on their shoulders, it's not like Leicestershire is going to suddenly become full of masked and anonymous brutalist enforcers, is it? I'm pretty sure you can relax a little on the Judge Dredd paranoia. If it helps the police more effectively work with a target community that have historically been problematic then what's the issue? Every journey - for better or worse - starts with the first step. Evidence the crises all over Europe, the Middle East and so many other places if you have any doubt. Even your talk about a "problematic" community suggests mistakes already made. A number of "issues" have been raised in the thread and I'm sure there'll be more when it happens. As for the facts quoted by DB11 that about as nebulous a statement as I could imagine being issued. I'd have been proud of it myself. The key, of course, is in the last but one paragraph - and what would be decided if they were approached, which doubtless they will be in time.
pSinatra Posted 25 September 2016 Posted 25 September 2016 A few years ago, I worked for a delivery company in & around Leicester for a couple of months during the winter. I made a lot of deliveries in the Highfields/Spinney Hill/Green Lane Road area & it was a bit of an eye-opener for me. I know the area reasonably well but was surprised by the reaction I was getting from a lot of women answering the door. They answered the door as normal, but as soon as they realised I was a white male they either shoved the door to & spoke to me through a gap in the door, not showing me their face, or they ran off (like I had pointed a gun at them). They would only return once they had a face veil in place. I really couldn't give a shit what people do with themselves. They can do what they want & wear what they want. What I didn't like was being seen as some sort of threat. I found it offensive. In what way am I a threat? Leicester is always being held up as some sort of multicultural success story. I wasn't feeling it. If a policewoman wearing a burka is a step forward then go for it, but it's a drop in the ocean.
Trav Le Bleu Posted 25 September 2016 Posted 25 September 2016 On 23/09/2016 at 11:03, Captain... said: I guess if the police feel they need to attract female muslim officers, to help police the muslim community, then it would be obtuse to not be flexible to their needs in terms of uniform. Maybe in some ways we need to see veiled women doing jobs in order to accept it as "normal". Thinking about I have never seen a woman in a veil working. Ninja?
Trav Le Bleu Posted 25 September 2016 Posted 25 September 2016 The obvious and sensible answer is allow it for officers purely dealing with the Muslim community. As SInatra said many Muslim woman felt uncomfortable dealing with him on a very basic level as a white male. The reverse would be true of Muslim men talking to a wpc not wearing a veil.
Guest MattP Posted 25 September 2016 Posted 25 September 2016 If you have issues or a problem dealing or speaking to white males then I don't think living in Britain is going to suit you. The more we try to do to accommodate the more you realise our attempt at multiculturalism was a complete failure.
Finnegan Posted 25 September 2016 Posted 25 September 2016 30 minutes ago, pSinatra said: A few years ago, I worked for a delivery company in & around Leicester for a couple of months during the winter. I made a lot of deliveries in the Highfields/Spinney Hill/Green Lane Road area & it was a bit of an eye-opener for me. I know the area reasonably well but was surprised by the reaction I was getting from a lot of women answering the door. They answered the door as normal, but as soon as they realised I was a white male they either shoved the door to & spoke to me through a gap in the door, not showing me their face, or they ran off (like I had pointed a gun at them). They would only return once they had a face veil in place. I really couldn't give a shit what people do with themselves. They can do what they want & wear what they want. What I didn't like was being seen as some sort of threat. I found it offensive. In what way am I a threat? Leicester is always being held up as some sort of multicultural success story. I wasn't feeling it. If a policewoman wearing a burka is a step forward then go for it, but it's a drop in the ocean. You're not a threat, you're just someone they're not supposed to show their face to. For what it's worth, I think it's a really shit practice. I can't stand conservative religion on any level. It's oppressive, even if the women wearing them don't feel that way on an individual basis. But an entire community isn't going to change its entrenched religious practices overnight. The bottom line is, we have conservative Muslims here, many are our citizens, and we also have problems with the police being unable to access their communities. What's wrong with allowing a few Muslim women in the force to wear a burkha to make it easier? I just don't see why this should evoke such a negative response.
Finnegan Posted 25 September 2016 Posted 25 September 2016 4 minutes ago, MattP said: If you have issues or a problem dealing or speaking to white males then I don't think living in Britain is going to suit you. The more we try to do to accommodate the more you realise our attempt at multiculturalism was a complete failure. That's just a massively over the top load of rubbish though. Multiculturalism has failed because a conservative minority of one faith has made themselves isolated?
Guest MattP Posted 25 September 2016 Posted 25 September 2016 When you are talking about whacking burkhas on the police force because such a significant amount of a community can't look at other people's faces it's completely laughable to suggest it has been any sort of success. The fact these sort of things are even being discussed in 2016 is so farcicalitit's hard to know where to start with it.
Finnegan Posted 25 September 2016 Posted 25 September 2016 18 minutes ago, MattP said: When you are talking about whacking burkhas on the police force because such a significant amount of a community can't look at other people's faces it's completely laughable to suggest it has been any sort of success. The fact these sort of things are even being discussed in 2016 is so farcicalitit's hard to know where to start with it. Yeah but this implies that the only other culture is "Muslim." I would imagine the Sikh and Hindu populations of Leicester, for example, would be pretty offended to hear that "multiculturalism has failed" because a few more hardline Muslims aren't integrating very well.
Guest MattP Posted 25 September 2016 Posted 25 September 2016 If anyone would be genuinely offended by such a suggestion I'd be surprised. It's not exactly a minority opinion and our last Prime Minister even gave a speech about how multiculturalism had failed in Britain.
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