Merging Cultures Posted 7 January 2017 Share Posted 7 January 2017 Having a good relationship with Russia is a good thing, not a bad thing. Only "stupid" people, or fools, would think that it is bad! We.....have enough problems around the world without yet another one. When I am President, Russia will respect us far more than they do now and....both countries will, perhaps, work together to solve some of the many great and pressing problems and issues of the WORLD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 7 January 2017 Share Posted 7 January 2017 He is so dumb. Doesn't realise Russia are only interested in Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 7 January 2017 Share Posted 7 January 2017 Plus he is basically calling the intelligence community stupid and fools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 7 January 2017 Share Posted 7 January 2017 I disagree MC, I think a change in approach is refreshing. America and Russia at odds with each other is not a good thing. How much they can trust each other....well the jury's still out I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 7 January 2017 Share Posted 7 January 2017 I disagree MC, I think a change in approach is refreshing. America and Russia at odds with each other is not a good thing. How much they can trust each other....well the jury's still out I guess.They can't trust Russia, that's the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 7 January 2017 Share Posted 7 January 2017 16 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said: They can't trust Russia, that's the point. Since the fall of Communism, the former pro-Russian countries (many of which were geographically part of Russia in the past) have been hurriedly and somewhat aggressively brought into the American sphere of influence. I'm not surprised they prefer a president that has talked about rapprochement. And I speak as someone who abhors both Putin and Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trav Le Bleu Posted 8 January 2017 Share Posted 8 January 2017 When I see Trump Twitter posts it's like I'm reading a parody account, but then I realise that it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 8 January 2017 Share Posted 8 January 2017 Since the fall of Communism, the former pro-Russian countries (many of which were geographically part of Russia in the past) have been hurriedly and somewhat aggressively brought into the American sphere of influence. I'm not surprised they prefer a president that has talked about rapprochement. And I speak as someone who abhors both Putin and Trump.There definitely needs to be changes in the relationship. It's been extremely frosty with Obama. But that's mostly because of how Russia has been behaving. It shouldn't be condoned. Which Trump's pandering to Putin is essentially doing. I think a softening towards Russia, while they are still willing to annex parts of other countries and support dictators by bombing civilians, will be seen as a green light by Russia for them to do more. Russia holds a number of countries by the short and curlies, and has direct influence over their economies by manipulating imports and energy. Plus, like the West, they've been bank rolling politicians. The scary part is the use of force. Ukraine, Georgia etc. Which is why so many countries have or are on the path to join the EU and NATO. I'm pretty sure those countries don't want a geopolitically empowered Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jattdogg Posted 8 January 2017 Share Posted 8 January 2017 Trump is a big twat. An embarassment already and hasnt even been sworn in yet. Spend your money here in canada fellas if you want to see north america Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 8 January 2017 Share Posted 8 January 2017 8 hours ago, Merging Cultures said: There definitely needs to be changes in the relationship. It's been extremely frosty with Obama. But that's mostly because of how Russia has been behaving. It shouldn't be condoned. Which Trump's pandering to Putin is essentially doing. I think a softening towards Russia, while they are still willing to annex parts of other countries and support dictators by bombing civilians, will be seen as a green light by Russia for them to do more. Russia holds a number of countries by the short and curlies, and has direct influence over their economies by manipulating imports and energy. Plus, like the West, they've been bank rolling politicians. The scary part is the use of force. Ukraine, Georgia etc. Which is why so many countries have or are on the path to join the EU and NATO. I'm pretty sure those countries don't want a geopolitically empowered Russia. At the same time you can understand why Russia doesn't want to be surrounded by Nato countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 8 January 2017 Share Posted 8 January 2017 Whether the Russians think that Trump is someone they can really talk to and move to a better future, or just a useful idiot who can be manipulated to make Russia itself a more prominent player in the international game of realpolitik...it's next to impossible to tell. Only time is going to tell on that one and we're just going to have to wait and see. Personally it's his domestic and environmental policy (or that of his party anyway) that is more concerning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 8 January 2017 Share Posted 8 January 2017 47 minutes ago, Webbo said: At the same time you can understand why Russia doesn't want to be surrounded by Nato countries. Quite. But it isn't like Nato is likely to invade Russia, whereas it is likely Russia invades, or at a minimum interferes directly in their neighbours economy and politics. Obviously Nato and the EU don't want to engage with these countries for altruistic reasons, but they mostly don't support dictators by lining their and the elites pockets, supporting corruption, suppressing the media and the general population. That is typically Russia's MO for engagement with a country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 8 January 2017 Share Posted 8 January 2017 37 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Whether the Russians think that Trump is someone they can really talk to and move to a better future, or just a useful idiot who can be manipulated to make Russia itself a more prominent player in the international game of realpolitik...it's next to impossible to tell. Only time is going to tell on that one and we're just going to have to wait and see. Personally it's his domestic and environmental policy (or that of his party anyway) that is more concerning. Biden said it well the other day, the public have largely moved past some of his policies, they expect clean air etc, and now a large portion have benefited from more affordable care, so it is likely the administration can be held accountable for these things because the population expects these things now. See the outrage about the ethics committee for instance. For me it is the international policy that is problematic. I do think Russia are using him, and I think he is clueless (like most Americans) about foreign policy. And because it won't affect them immediately or directly, they are less likely to get up in arms about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 8 January 2017 Share Posted 8 January 2017 18 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said: Quite. But it isn't like Nato is likely to invade Russia, whereas it is likely Russia invades, or at a minimum interferes directly in their neighbours economy and politics. Obviously Nato and the EU don't want to engage with these countries for altruistic reasons, but they mostly don't support dictators by lining their and the elites pockets, supporting corruption, suppressing the media and the general population. That is typically Russia's MO for engagement with a country. We believe that we're not going to invade but do they? I'm no supporter of Putin btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 8 January 2017 Share Posted 8 January 2017 8 minutes ago, Webbo said: We believe that we're not going to invade but do they? I'm no supporter of Putin btw. They probably believe we are invading the countries that have requested to join Nato and the EU by eroding their influence and building bases in those countries. But I don't think they believe we would seek to overthrow a democratically elected Government that has requested to join the EU and Nato. I can't imagine they believe we'd seek to invade the other countries (Belarus especially now they seem to be 'falling inline' with the EU Eastern Partnership). But because they are seeing their influence being chipped away by EU trade, Russia are really annoyed and by having Trump on board, they have a serious coup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 8 January 2017 Share Posted 8 January 2017 11 hours ago, Merging Cultures said: There definitely needs to be changes in the relationship. It's been extremely frosty with Obama. But that's mostly because of how Russia has been behaving. It shouldn't be condoned. Which Trump's pandering to Putin is essentially doing. I think a softening towards Russia, while they are still willing to annex parts of other countries and support dictators by bombing civilians, will be seen as a green light by Russia for them to do more. Russia holds a number of countries by the short and curlies, and has direct influence over their economies by manipulating imports and energy. Plus, like the West, they've been bank rolling politicians. The scary part is the use of force. Ukraine, Georgia etc. Which is why so many countries have or are on the path to join the EU and NATO. I'm pretty sure those countries don't want a geopolitically empowered Russia. 1 hour ago, Merging Cultures said: Quite. But it isn't like Nato is likely to invade Russia, whereas it is likely Russia invades, or at a minimum interferes directly in their neighbours economy and politics. Obviously Nato and the EU don't want to engage with these countries for altruistic reasons, but they mostly don't support dictators by lining their and the elites pockets, supporting corruption, suppressing the media and the general population. That is typically Russia's MO for engagement with a country. Good points to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 8 January 2017 Share Posted 8 January 2017 1 hour ago, Merging Cultures said: Biden said it well the other day, the public have largely moved past some of his policies, they expect clean air etc, and now a large portion have benefited from more affordable care, so it is likely the administration can be held accountable for these things because the population expects these things now. See the outrage about the ethics committee for instance. For me it is the international policy that is problematic. I do think Russia are using him, and I think he is clueless (like most Americans) about foreign policy. And because it won't affect them immediately or directly, they are less likely to get up in arms about it. I see your point. I'm not 100% convinced that the environmental and social stuff that his administration could do would be opposed as much or as successfully as you think though - not when many over there think that there simply isn't a potential problem regarding pollution/clean air and would actually welcome legislation inhibiting the rights of "other" groups. The ethics thing had general bipartisan opposition because it was "politicians being bad", but with the above two things there's much more division in how the topic is seen amongst people in the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 8 January 2017 Share Posted 8 January 2017 2 hours ago, leicsmac said: I see your point. I'm not 100% convinced that the environmental and social stuff that his administration could do would be opposed as much or as successfully as you think though - not when many over there think that there simply isn't a potential problem regarding pollution/clean air and would actually welcome legislation inhibiting the rights of "other" groups. The ethics thing had general bipartisan opposition because it was "politicians being bad", but with the above two things there's much more division in how the topic is seen amongst people in the street. Not to contradict myself, but I do agree with you on the whole, and unfortunately it's largely to do with the influence of business in politics. However, I do have hopes that people will rise up against the self-harming policies eventually, and 2018 will be an interesting election. I have doubts Trump will make it to 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 9 January 2017 Share Posted 9 January 2017 On 1/8/2017 at 10:25, leicsmac said: Whether the Russians think that Trump is someone they can really talk to and move to a better future, or just a useful idiot who can be manipulated to make Russia itself a more prominent player in the international game of realpolitik...it's next to impossible to tell. I think it's pretty easy to tell, they probably think both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 9 January 2017 Share Posted 9 January 2017 Golden Globes worth a watch, amazingly, Donald Trump was mentioned. It's always wonderful for the people of Hollywood to tell us how everything is going in the real World, we had speeches about racism, BLM, police shootings, feminism, for some reason the TV director cut out any mentions to the racist attack in Chicago this week, not sure why. Meryl Streep, a woman who gave Roman Polanski a standing ovation after fleeing a country for having sex with children, gave the most passionate and brave speech of the night about an impression Trump did, it made her feel sick, I don't think people realise just how hard it is to stand on a platform and speak a political opinion that every single person in the room shares. Skeptics will say all these luvvies do is prop up the Democrat vote in California but they couldn't be more wrong, with these guys telling us all how to think, the rust belt is coming flying back, the Republicans don't stand a chance in 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 9 January 2017 Share Posted 9 January 2017 10 minutes ago, MattP said: I think it's pretty easy to tell, they probably think both. Ha! There's something in that. I wonder how much of one and how much of the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 9 January 2017 Share Posted 9 January 2017 4 minutes ago, MattP said: Golden Globes worth a watch, amazingly, Donald Trump was mentioned. It's always wonderful for the people of Hollywood to tell us how everything is going in the real World, we had speeches about racism, BLM, police shootings, feminism, for some reason the TV director cut out any mentions to the racist attack in Chicago this week, not sure why. Meryl Streep, a woman who gave Roman Polanski a standing ovation after fleeing a country for having sex with children, gave the most passionate and brave speech of the night about an impression Trump did, it made her feel sick, I don't think people realise just how hard it is to stand on a platform and speak a politial opinion that every single person in the room shares. Sleptics will say all these luvvies do is prop up the Democrat vote in California but they couldn't be more wrong, with these guys telling us all how to think, the rust belt is coming flying back, the Republicans don't stand a chance in 2020. The Hollywood brigade talking about such things tends to be rather similar to the Breitbart/4channer lot discussing the latest Alex Jones/Milo video on the matter. Echo chamber. As has been said on here a few times, it was economic arguments that were the key this time round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted 9 January 2017 Share Posted 9 January 2017 6 minutes ago, MattP said: Golden Globes worth a watch, amazingly, Donald Trump was mentioned. It's always wonderful for the people of Hollywood to tell us how everything is going in the real World, we had speeches about racism, BLM, police shootings, feminism, forr some reason the TV director cut out any mentions to the racist attack in Chicago this week, not sure why. Meryl Streep, a woman who gave Roman Polanski a standing ovation after feeling a country for having sex with children, gave the most passionate and brave speech of the night about an impression Trump did, it made her feel sick, I don't think people realise just how hard it is to stand on a platform and speak a politial opinion that every single person in the room shares. Sleptics will say all these luvvies do is prop up the Democrat vote in California but they couldn't be more wrong, with these guys telling us all how to think, the rust belt is coming flying back, the Republicans don't stand a chance in 2020. No news there really though bud. Wealthy liberals use their platform and fame to voice issues of arguably marginalised groups... Let's be honest its not like the wealthy not so liberal are trying to feather the caps of anybody else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 9 January 2017 Share Posted 9 January 2017 2 minutes ago, leicsmac said: The Hollywood brigade talking about such things tends to be rather similar to the Breitbart/4channer lot discussing the latest Alex Jones/Milo video on the matter. Echo chamber. As has been said on here a few times, it was economic arguments that were the key this time round. The difference of course being that the former are headline news and are actively destroying their own cause by playing on the best weapon of right wing populism, that the wealthy liberal elite are totally out of touch with them and don't care about them. The average person in the street wouldn't have a clue who Jones or Milo is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkon84 Posted 9 January 2017 Share Posted 9 January 2017 12 minutes ago, MattP said: Golden Globes worth a watch, amazingly, Donald Trump was mentioned. It's always wonderful for the people of Hollywood to tell us how everything is going in the real World, we had speeches about racism, BLM, police shootings, feminism, for some reason the TV director cut out any mentions to the racist attack in Chicago this week, not sure why. Meryl Streep, a woman who gave Roman Polanski a standing ovation after fleeing a country for having sex with children, gave the most passionate and brave speech of the night about an impression Trump did, it made her feel sick, I don't think people realise just how hard it is to stand on a platform and speak a politial opinion that every single person in the room shares. Sleptics will say all these luvvies do is prop up the Democrat vote in California but they couldn't be more wrong, with these guys telling us all how to think, the rust belt is coming flying back, the Republicans don't stand a chance in 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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