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Vacamion

President Trump & the USA

By Vacamion, in General Chat

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Innovindil

Innovindil

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, leicsmac said:

And now's he's bitching on Twitter about the idea of a European army floated by Macron and that the European nations don't stick enough into NATO.

 

You know, it's a funny thing, Don - when a friend doesn't consider your help reliable any more (even if the help has been substantial), they tend to seek other help or make it for themselves. Funny that.

European nations don't contribute enough to nato, only a handful hit the 2% target, and as far as I'm aware, the idea of a European army has been touted long before trump even considered playing politics. :huh:

leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Innovindil said:

European nations don't contribute enough to nato, only a handful hit the 2% target, and as far as I'm aware, the idea of a European army has been touted long before trump even considered playing politics. :huh:

If we're going by the book then yes, most of the European nations don't stick as much into NATO as they should. But, for all that it's been debated before, does anyone think there would be as much talk of a European army at the present time if someone else was running the show in the White House now? I think probably not.

 

I just find it rather ridiculous that Trump is criticising Europe for seeking their own plans (even if they're not strictly playing by the rules) when he and his attitude towards international cooperation with the European countries (including the UK, and not just on military-related matters) is one of the main reasons why they're being sought. Of course, you can bet your bottom dollar that he believes it is no way at all his fault, though.

Carl the Llama

Carl the Llama

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, The Doctor said:

https://metro.co.uk/2018/11/10/fury-as-trump-fails-to-make-one-hour-drive-to-wwi-cemetery-because-of-rain-8126006/

 

Phenomenal. Skips a ceremony for Armistice Day because of some drizzle. 

Never stopped him golfing though. :huh:

 

3 hours ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46161280

 

On a different note, pretty awful stuff.

Yeah there's a video doing the rounds from a survivor caught in the Camp Fire, as he goes from car to car showing where his friend and that friend's mum failed to escape you can see a skeleton sitting upright in one of the vehicles... awful way to go.

Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, leicsmac said:

If we're going by the book then yes, most of the European nations don't stick as much into NATO as they should. But, for all that it's been debated before, does anyone think there would be as much talk of a European army at the present time if someone else was running the show in the White House now? I think probably not.

Think again. Has been talked about in Brussels before Trump even decided to run for President.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/08/jean-claude-juncker-calls-for-eu-army-european-commission-miltary

leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, MattP said:

Think again. Has been talked about in Brussels before Trump even decided to run for President.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/08/jean-claude-juncker-calls-for-eu-army-european-commission-miltary

Yes, I know it's been mooted as Inno pointed out - hence my careful use of "as much talk" rather than just "talk".

 

There has of course been such discussion about such an army for a while now but while I can't prove it conclusively I'm still maintaining that the actions of the Trump administration mean that it is being taken more seriously now than perhaps it was in the past - and again, I find it vaguely amusing that Trump is complaining about a matter that he himself has at least had a hand in.

 

Another question that jumps to mind: why would he be interested in passing judgement on it anyway? I mean, he goes on about NATO contributions so I guess he's looking for solidarity in that area rather than an EU army but I don't see him treating the various NATO members with anything but contempt (apart from the occasional backhanded compliment).

Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Yes, I know it's been mooted as Inno pointed out - hence my careful use of "as much talk" rather than just "talk".

 

There has of course been such discussion about such an army for a while now but while I can't prove it conclusively I'm still maintaining that the actions of the Trump administration mean that it is being taken more seriously now than perhaps it was in the past - and again, I find it vaguely amusing that Trump is complaining about a matter that he himself has at least had a hand in.

 

Another question that jumps to mind: why would he be interested in passing judgement on it anyway? I mean, he goes on about NATO contributions so I guess he's looking for solidarity in that area rather than an EU army but I don't see him treating the various NATO members with anything but contempt (apart from the occasional backhanded compliment).

I think he's mae it clear he's not going to have the piss taken out of him or his country. He's well within his rights as well, the amount Germany pays is absolutely outrageous given the financial state of the country.
 

I don't think the election of Trump has made any difference, when the EU wants to press ahead with something it will.

leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, MattP said:

I think he's mae it clear he's not going to have the piss taken out of him or his country. He's well within his rights as well, the amount Germany pays is absolutely outrageous given the financial state of the country.
 

I don't think the election of Trump has made any difference, when the EU wants to press ahead with something it will.

One man's "making clear he's not going to have the piss taken out of" is another mans "provincial contempt", evidently - and not exactly endearing to allies of the US, for the most part, I would wager. Either way, I doubt it's going to get him the result that he purports to want - I can understand the sentiment about needing to pay your way but if 2016 taught us anything it's that people often don't like being talked down to and/or backed into a corner.

 

Do you think that Europe really doesn't view the US with more wariness now than it did before Trump was elected, and so might seek to take their own measures wrt defending themselves?

leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

For once we get an example of a good guy with a gun successfully stopping a bad guy with a gun.  Gets fatally shot by police on their arrival.  

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46187460

So that would be a good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun...only to be thought a bad guy with a gun and being stopped by more good guys with guns even though it turns out he's a good guy with a gun?

 

Is that about right?

Carl the Llama

Carl the Llama

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

So that would be a good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun...only to be thought a bad guy with a gun and being stopped by more good guys with guns even though it turns out he's a good guy with a gun?

 

Is that about right?

Very unpredictable and hard to imagine, isn't it?  His mistake was trying to apprehend the suspect instead of shooting to kill like a really good guy.

urban.spaceman

urban.spaceman

Posted
Posted

How about, you know, assessing the situation with a calm level headed demeanour  before pulling the trigger on a young man?! Kinda like how the victim did his job with the attacker?!

 

Mental.

The Doctor

The Doctor

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

How about, you know, assessing the situation with a calm level headed demeanour  before pulling the trigger on a young man?! Kinda like how the victim did his job with the attacker?!

 

Mental.

The American police are only allowed to do that with white guys though. :whistle:

leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
Just now, The Doctor said:

The American police are only allowed to do that with white guys though. :whistle:

It's gotten to the stage that when there's a mass shooting etc now all you have to do is see if the perp:

 

- was fatally apprehended

- was arrested without being killed/committed suicide by gun when cornered

 

and you can pretty much guess the skin colour of the perp from which one occured.

urban.spaceman

urban.spaceman

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

The American police are only allowed to do that with white guys though. :whistle:

 

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

It's gotten to the stage that when there's a mass shooting etc now all you have to do is see if the perp:

 

- was fatally apprehended

- was arrested without being killed/committed suicide by gun when cornered

 

and you can pretty much guess the skin colour of the perp from which one occured.

Well I was trying to avoid the whole race issue and just question why the need to pull the trigger in the first place but you’re right I guess. America is being held back by this obsession with race and weapons.

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