Detroit Blues Posted 29 November 2018 Share Posted 29 November 2018 51 minutes ago, MattP said: But surely the desire go overturn the election by any means necessary is a source of embarrassment? One comment on this page says "we need to get some charges on him" - actually what needs to happen is for due process and the rule of law to take place. How many members of Trump's campaign need to plead guilty to federal crimes before you consider that this investigation is legitimate? George Papadopoulos, Rick Gates, Michael Flynn, Michael Cohen, etc. have already plead guilty. In addition, if Paul Manafort accepts a pardon from Trump, that is by definition an admission of guilt. It's naive to think that this special counsel investigation is a partisan scheme to topple an innocent man. This is much more consistent with how a law enforcement agency investigates a criminal organization. It will be interesting to see what happens next. My guess is that Jared Kushner and Eric Trump will be indicted, as they were at the Trump Tower meeting with Russian spies. That will likely be the last straw, before Trump forces the acting Attorney General, Matthew Whitaker, to fire Rosenstein and Mueller, and end the investigation. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 29 November 2018 Share Posted 29 November 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, MattP said: But surely the desire go overturn the election by any means necessary is a source of embarrassment? One comment on this page says "we need to get some charges on him" - actually what needs to happen is for due process and the rule of law to take place. No it doesn’t. The poster was talking about getting state charges on Manafort to prevent Trump from pardoning him as a reward for him not testifying against him. On 27/11/2018 at 14:48, Detroit Blues said: Need to get some state charges on him, so that Trump can't pardon them. Edited 29 November 2018 by Buce 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 30 November 2018 Share Posted 30 November 2018 5 hours ago, MattP said: But surely the desire go overturn the election by any means necessary is a source of embarrassment? One comment on this page says "we need to get some charges on him" - actually what needs to happen is for due process and the rule of law to take place. Were there no fire to the smoke then I'd likely agree with this...however, as others have described, there does seem to be a decent amount of fire from the indictments being handed down. Due process and the rule of law are taking place - Mueller is just taking his time working his way through and up, as he should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 30 November 2018 Share Posted 30 November 2018 12 hours ago, Detroit Blues said: It's naive to think that this special counsel investigation is a partisan scheme to topple an innocent man. This is much more consistent with how a law enforcement agency investigates a criminal organization. It will be interesting to see what happens next. My guess is that Jared Kushner and Eric Trump will be indicted, as they were at the Trump Tower meeting with Russian spies. That will likely be the last straw, before Trump forces the acting Attorney General, Matthew Whitaker, to fire Rosenstein and Mueller, and end the investigation. 8 hours ago, leicsmac said: Were there no fire to the smoke then I'd likely agree with this...however, as others have described, there does seem to be a decent amount of fire from the indictments being handed down. Due process and the rule of law are taking place - Mueller is just taking his time working his way through and up, as he should. I haven't made a comment either way on presumption or innocence or guilt. I'm saying due process has to take place. What I find strange is the desire to see charges against someone, that's the difference - I've not seen this sort of thing in politics since George Bush was around. This has been happening since pretty much day one of his tenure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxNotFox Posted 30 November 2018 Share Posted 30 November 2018 6 minutes ago, MattP said: What I find strange is the desire to see charges against someone, that's the difference But I presume you find it ok to investigate the suspicions of wrong doing? Mueller would appear to be proceeding with all due care and attention. It seems professional and methodical as far as I can tell (which, obviously, is not very far!) There's always noise around an investigation but one can ignore that and wait for the investigations to reach their conclusion. It wouldn't at all surprise me if there's nothing that can be sufficiently substantiated. Trump can be prosecuted where he has transgressed - but however questionable his character (and make no mistake I think him a dangerous, pompous and self-opinionated bigot), one's character traits are not, in themselves, against the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Prussian Posted 30 November 2018 Share Posted 30 November 2018 (edited) On 28/11/2018 at 13:28, Countryfox said: The lads had implants ... Shake it like it's hot. Edited 30 November 2018 by MC Prussian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 30 November 2018 Share Posted 30 November 2018 5 minutes ago, FoxNotFox said: But I presume you find it ok to investigate the suspicions of wrong doing? Mueller would appear to be proceeding with all due care and attention. It seems professional and methodical as far as I can tell (which, obviously, is not very far!) There's always noise around an investigation but one can ignore that and wait for the investigations to reach their conclusion. It wouldn't at all surprise me if there's nothing that can be sufficiently substantiated. Trump can be prosecuted where he has transgressed - but however questionable his character (and make no mistake I think him a dangerous, pompous and self-opinionated bigot), one's character traits are not, in themselves, against the law. Of course, investigation and due process is extremely important. You only have to look back to the Kavanaugh case to see how close you can come to seeing this fall. There are clearly things that need to be investigated, it's the desire from people to see him removed from day one that I don't like, they think they are, but these people are actually no better than the Trump supporters who chanted "lock her up" at his rallies, they just do it in a more subtle and intelligible way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxNotFox Posted 30 November 2018 Share Posted 30 November 2018 5 minutes ago, MattP said: There are clearly things that need to be investigated, it's the desire from people to see him removed from day one that I don't like, they think they are, but these people are actually no better than the Trump supporters who chanted "lock her up" at his rallies, they just do it in a more subtle and intelligible way. People will always think things, and other people will disagree. So long as those thoughts and words don't become violent then I have no real complaints. Personally, I hate the baying of a self-righteous crowd - be they Republicans or Corbyn loving Momentum lefties (or even football fans for that matter) - but it's just an expression of belief. I'm intimidated by it because I dislike individuals being pumped up like that, being victims of a crowd hysteria. As individuals, I don't feel they can control that energy and that frightens me. They become capable of, and feel entitled to do, all manner of things. But I don't necessarily disagree with the core belief, it's just how it's expressed that concerns me. In short, the problem - in that respect and in as much as it is a problem - is mine. I feel people ought be able to express their beliefs (even those wanting Trump out for any reason) in any legal manner available - even when I feel uncomfortable about that. Personally, I just wish they'd form a nice orderly line and wait their turn to speak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 30 November 2018 Share Posted 30 November 2018 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46394995 It will be interesting to see how this all turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Carl the Llama Posted 30 November 2018 Popular Post Share Posted 30 November 2018 5 hours ago, MattP said: I haven't made a comment either way on presumption or innocence or guilt. I'm saying due process has to take place. What I find strange is the desire to see charges against someone, that's the difference - I've not seen this sort of thing in politics since George Bush was around. This has been happening since pretty much day one of his tenure. Did you not notice the current president and his rag tag bunch of birth certificate specialists telling everyone who would listen that Obama was an illegitimate president? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wymsey Posted 1 December 2018 Share Posted 1 December 2018 George Bush senior is to lie in state, following his death this morning at age 94. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 4 December 2018 Share Posted 4 December 2018 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 5 December 2018 Share Posted 5 December 2018 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46449950 What could Flynn possibly have given Mueller that merits him recommending no jail time? Things might be about to get very interesting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 5 December 2018 Share Posted 5 December 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 5 December 2018 Share Posted 5 December 2018 be interesting to see Teresa May's false claim history tbf - can't be far off. so funny listening to her - she's lied so much she totally believes herself but she's the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 5 December 2018 Share Posted 5 December 2018 I want to read minds - some of the faces here are incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 5 December 2018 Share Posted 5 December 2018 i bet obama is thinking about the nice big zoot he's gonna blaze when he gets home 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 5 December 2018 Share Posted 5 December 2018 On 01/12/2018 at 22:44, Wymeswold fox said: George Bush senior is to lie in state, following his death this morning at age 94. All politicians lie Wymes ... alive or dead .. makes no odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jattdogg Posted 6 December 2018 Share Posted 6 December 2018 7 hours ago, MattP said: I want to read minds - some of the faces here are incredible. Saw this earlier today and i was laughing. Credit to obama always a classy guy. Trump looks like an angry twatfaced troll. How can melania love that face ramming her. No morals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderbyFox Posted 6 December 2018 Share Posted 6 December 2018 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jattdogg Posted 7 December 2018 Share Posted 7 December 2018 12 hours ago, EnderbyFox said: Oooompahhhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 7 December 2018 Share Posted 7 December 2018 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46471447 Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 7 December 2018 Share Posted 7 December 2018 Wow. Kevin Hart got butchered super quick by a tweet made a decade ago. Damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 7 December 2018 Share Posted 7 December 2018 6 minutes ago, Innovindil said: Wow. Kevin Hart got butchered super quick by a tweet made a decade ago. Damn. Is there some sort of secret SJW body that now goes around checking all the social media accounts of anyone who gets a job in the media? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 7 December 2018 Share Posted 7 December 2018 7 minutes ago, MattP said: Is there some sort of secret SJW body that now goes around checking all the social media accounts of anyone who gets a job in the media? Got to be a legion of them, getting through 10 years worth of tweets in a couple of days is amazing stuff tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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