Vardinio'sCat Posted 1 March 2017 Posted 1 March 2017 Maybe we need to give our players a clean slate now we can see that CR was clearly not playing to our strengths, and had confused the players with his tactical approach. I appreciate this thread is at least one game to early, but maybe we should have realised that pretty much the whole team couldn't have turned into bad players, almost overnight. I fell in to this trap myself to some extent, but in hindsight it was a tad hasty. I realise not everyone was saying that our CB's are s**t, some were saying they were playing s**t, but there is a very, very big difference between the two statements. Morgan and Huth have their limitations, as do most of our players, but none of them are s**t. And who knows how good the recent signings actually are... Musa might be familiar with football after all!
Kitchandro Posted 1 March 2017 Posted 1 March 2017 Yeh you're right tactics turned them from one of the best pairings in the league to a couple of donkeys and back again. Why are people so afraid to admit there's been an attitude problem as well? Tactics clearly make a difference but they do not effect the very basics.
Matt Posted 1 March 2017 Posted 1 March 2017 They did look better and I felt quite confident and comfortable with them on Monday. I've been slagging them off all season (And rightly so), however in their defence I think it's been how the teams been set up and told to play under CR, I read because of the loss of Kante he felt we needed to change our style, our tactics, we needed to be defence...no! We cannot play that way, We're not good enough to play that way and losing such an important component in Kante to play so defensively was even more suicidal to play this way. They still need replacing, we still need back up's but credit where credits due they looked alot better simply because we defended from the front, everyone did their bit to defend, everyone closed down quicker.
StanSP Posted 1 March 2017 Posted 1 March 2017 When you put pressure on all around the pitch it will almost always make a central defender's job easier. It means opposition result in resorting to long balls which players like Morgan and Huth will sweep up and deal with easily, especially when the other team doesn't even have tall forwards. And it also means players like Ndidi have one job and that is to break up anything that the opposition defence gets through to further up the pitch. Ndidi did that to perfection and was very much like the 'shield' that Kante was last season. Not to compare the 2 players but when you have players like Vardy and Okazaki hassling defenders and Ndidi doing his job, it gives more time for Morgan and Huth to organise themselves to be in the best positions to defend. Too many games this season other teams would control the ball further up the field and it would mean Morgan and Huth were under intense pressure. The pressure our midfielders and forwards put on the opposition make one set of defender's lives easier and the other set of defender's lives hell.
Mease Posted 1 March 2017 Posted 1 March 2017 It simple for me the whole team with high press means the game is not played exclusively in our half they get turned and found out in terms of pace less, they see the game in front of them rather than around them. The press enables DM to function as it should and in this case Ndidi can protect. This is of benefit to the attacking and defending part of our game, these things are key to get the best out of our players, I think we find plan B and C in the future but in the right way with the right players, for another discussion, but for now it's what the Champions are good at.
RowlattsFox Posted 1 March 2017 Posted 1 March 2017 One thing I noticed is both were tight to the back of the strikers when the ball was played up, trying to win the ball before it's under control, borderline fouls but it's their best chance of winning the ball back.
Vardinio'sCat Posted 1 March 2017 Author Posted 1 March 2017 21 minutes ago, Kitchandro said: Yeh you're right tactics turned them from one of the best pairings in the league to a couple of donkeys and back again. Why are people so afraid to admit there's been an attitude problem as well? Tactics clearly make a difference but they do not effect the very basics. I'm quite happy to acknowledge that the player let themselves down, as well, no problem. I guess making noise about one aspect of our decline does imply other reasons are not worth mentioning. There were many reasons we were crap, and I guess I'm just hoping the CR effect was as big as possible, because that would be good news for us.
UPinCarolina Posted 1 March 2017 Posted 1 March 2017 Our CBs need to be able to sit back and read the match; they cannot cover the ground needed to afford them much of a role playing too far off of their line. Our game lives and dies in the midfield - and even then, it dies if we cannot soak up pressure and respond from the back line moving forwards. (I have no clue what I am talking about, but this sounds remotely correct in my head)
Vardinio'sCat Posted 1 March 2017 Author Posted 1 March 2017 38 minutes ago, Matt said: They did look better and I felt quite confident and comfortable with them on Monday. I've been slagging them off all season (And rightly so), however in their defence I think it's been how the teams been set up and told to play under CR, I read because of the loss of Kante he felt we needed to change our style, our tactics, we needed to be defence...no! We cannot play that way, We're not good enough to play that way and losing such an important component in Kante to play so defensively was even more suicidal to play this way. They still need replacing, we still need back up's but credit where credits due they looked alot better simply because we defended from the front, everyone did their bit to defend, everyone closed down quicker. Remember how we changed in the second half of the season though, all those 1-0's. The bloody pizza thing. Maybe we could see CR's direction of travel then, and it encouraged him to believe it was the way to go this season. In a way, it feels like playing that defensively had neutered our goal threat, and that just brings more pressure on.
AmarteyAndChill Posted 1 March 2017 Posted 1 March 2017 Waiting for this place to go into melt down when hull sit back and we have to watch Huth, Morgan and Simpsons awful distribution to try and start attacks.
Struwwelpeter60 Posted 1 March 2017 Posted 1 March 2017 Huth and Morgan are still our two oldest first-team players. They are still slow and ponderous. They are still prone to panic, when put under pressure. They still can't pass properly. And they were the two most ridiculed and insulted players in this forum. But suddenly the same people, who were castigating CR for not dropping them, are applauding CS for playing them. Does that mean, that after all, CR was right, or what? It is really, really bizarre. How fickle can one be??
Gerard Posted 1 March 2017 Posted 1 March 2017 Yes they did, we can bin plans of buying a centre back in the summer now.
zealot Posted 1 March 2017 Posted 1 March 2017 I'm not sure this is entirely true. I thought it was same as recent games from Huth and Wes. They looked steady on Monday but I felt that was not because they were better but because Ndidi had an astonishingly good game tackling and stopping things in front of them. Ndidi deserved to be man of the match and can't believe he didn't get it. There was a couple of occasions where Wes and Huth went for the same man and ball again as has happened a lot on numerous occasions this year - leaving space for oppo to run into. Including for their goal and a couple of other chances for them too... It's as if they don't talk to each other as much this season and as a consequence our defensive shape has been poor. Regardless, winning will help their confidence and hopefully they'll go from strength to strength for rest of the season.
Thracian Posted 1 March 2017 Posted 1 March 2017 20 minutes ago, Struwwelpeter60 said: Huth and Morgan are still our two oldest first-team players. They are still slow and ponderous. They are still prone to panic, when put under pressure. They still can't pass properly. And they were the two most ridiculed and insulted players in this forum. But suddenly the same people, who were castigating CR for not dropping them, are applauding CS for playing them. Does that mean, that after all, CR was right, or what? It is really, really bizarre. How fickle can one be?? Football management is about how to use your resources to best collective effect. All players have strengths and weaknesses but the secret is to choose an approach which minimises weaknesses and promotes strengths. For all sorts of reasons Ranieri didn't do that this season. In fact he exposed weaknesses and obliterated the strengths. Think back to the Liverpool game and how many tackles N'didi made. More even than Kante and that was partly because Liverpool had next to no chance of success pumping crosses into the box so they had to pass back and forth across the expanse of space between the halfway line and our penalty area in their efforts to find a path to goal. But with what amounted to three in central midfield, whether it was Albrighton, Shinji or the substitutes in the later stages our vulnerability with a two man centre was effectively all-but negated and quite cleverly because we still didn't lose our goal threat until theunderstandable fade-out near the end. For me it was a coaches classic of the kind that should be used on teaching videos. Morgan and Huth are immense in the air and that's what they had to deal with in the main because there was plenty of informed and organised protection in front. . There were other little things too but the don't matter except to say that they all added to the sum of the precision-engineered parts.
RowlattsFox Posted 1 March 2017 Posted 1 March 2017 Simpson and Fuchs were also much better covering them as well. Whole team plays well, so will they.
Brakey Posted 1 March 2017 Posted 1 March 2017 1 hour ago, Kitchandro said: Yeh you're right tactics turned them from one of the best pairings in the league to a couple of donkeys and back again. Why are people so afraid to admit there's been an attitude problem as well? Tactics clearly make a difference but they do not effect the very basics. You so right, so many of our fans are afraid to criticise the attitude of our players and for me the assistant. Who until it suited him on Monday night as not managed to motivate the same players. Forget who the manager was they have let the club and supporters down. "Am I allowed to say that"
Detroit Blues Posted 1 March 2017 Posted 1 March 2017 1 hour ago, AmarteyAndChill said: Waiting for this place to go into melt down when hull sit back and we have to watch Huth, Morgan and Simpsons awful distribution to try and start attacks. I mean that's true, but we ran into that same tactic last season and won the premier league. I don't care how poor their distribution is if they keep a clean sheet.
Struwwelpeter60 Posted 1 March 2017 Posted 1 March 2017 20 minutes ago, Thracian said: Football management is about how to use your resources to best collective effect. All players have strengths and weaknesses but the secret is to choose an approach which minimises weaknesses and promotes strengths. For all sorts of reasons Ranieri didn't do that this season. In fact he exposed weaknesses and obliterated the strengths. Think back to the Liverpool game and how many tackles N'didi made. More even than Kante and that was partly because Liverpool had next to no chance of success pumping crosses into the box so they had to pass back and forth across the expanse of space between the halfway line and our penalty area in their efforts to find a path to goal. But with what amounted to three in central midfield, whether it was Albrighton, Shinji or the substitutes in the later stages our vulnerability with a two man centre was effectively all-but negated and quite cleverly because we still didn't lose our goal threat until theunderstandable fade-out near the end. For me it was a coaches classic of the kind that should be used on teaching videos. Morgan and Huth are immense in the air and that's what they had to deal with in the main because there was plenty of informed and organised protection in front. . There were other little things too but the don't matter except to say that they all added to the sum of the precision-engineered parts. You could have written exactly the same post after the ManCity match. People, get a grip. We won one game against a poor Liverpool team, that won only 2 of its last 12 matches. A Liverpool team, that lost to Hull, Swansea, Bournemouth, Burnley, and ffs to Wolves. They played right into our hands with their high defending. Like Pep, Klopp obviously expected a walkover, due to the turmoils in our club. Silva won't make the same mistake.
the fox Posted 1 March 2017 Posted 1 March 2017 The gap between the midfield and defense left them exposed.
StanSP Posted 1 March 2017 Posted 1 March 2017 4 minutes ago, Struwwelpeter60 said: You could have written exactly the same post after the ManCity match. People, get a grip. We won one game against a poor Liverpool team, that won only 2 of its last 12 matches. A Liverpool team, that lost to Hull, Swansea, Bournemouth, Burnley, and ffs to Wolves. They played right into our hands with their high defending. Like Pep, Klopp obviously expected a walkover, due to the turmoils in our club. Silva won't make the same mistake. so it was nothing to do with our tactics or application to the game? it was only because Liverpool were crap? Bore off.
Sharpe's Fox Posted 1 March 2017 Posted 1 March 2017 Helps when you actually press teams and force them wide instead of letting them waltz through midfield
Thracian Posted 1 March 2017 Posted 1 March 2017 5 minutes ago, Struwwelpeter60 said: You could have written exactly the same post after the ManCity match. People, get a grip. We won one game against a poor Liverpool team, that won only 2 of its last 12 matches. A Liverpool team, that lost to Hull, Swansea, Bournemouth, Burnley, and ffs to Wolves. They played right into our hands with their high defending. Like Pep, Klopp obviously expected a walkover, due to the turmoils in our club. Silva won't make the same mistake. You might be right about Hull but there's no need to be pessimistic before it happens and we can only beat what's there in front of us, however well or badly they play. Praise where it's due is my attitude - I won't go looking for reasons to be gloomy. We've had enough of them this season without making more up. .
erlee Posted 1 March 2017 Posted 1 March 2017 >>> They played right into our hands with their high defending. Like Pep, Klopp obviously expected a walkover, <<< in other words their high pressing game is no good.. but our high pressing game was positively fruitful people just cant say you must high-press,,, it depends on the opponent it depends on your defenders. with huth & morgan,. defending near the centre circle high is FATAL
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