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Babylon

Take a bow Sam Wallace...

By Babylon, in Leicester City Forum

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Babylon

Babylon

Posted
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Posted
4 minutes ago, Beliall said:

Copy and paste anyone please. Button isn't working to register

On my phone and it's a bloody pain on that... anyone on a desktop?

davieG

davieG

Posted
Posted

Leicester fans back their chairman - outrage over Claudio Ranieri has come from outside

SAM WALLACECHIEF FOOTBALL WRITER

1 MARCH 2017 • 5:59PM

 

If you missed the online bookmakers’ stunt involving a hearse and a flower arrangement that read “RIP football” at the King Power Stadium on Monday night then you were not alone – were the gambling commission also to regulate lame ideas, it would have earned an immediate charge.

 

Best not to go through the excruciating detail, other than to say that it was supposed to signify what Claudio Ranieri’s sacking meant for the soul of the game because when people look for answers to the big questions of the age, obviously online bookmakers tend to be the first port of call. The response was so underwhelming even the bookies in question, a publicity-ravenous operation, quietly dropped the whole thing.

 

Not for the first time the mood of football fans was called wrong, and the true answers were to be found by watching the reaction of the Leicester City fans who attended the King Power. There was no mass outpouring of rage at Ranieri’s sacking, rather it was heartfelt thanks for what had been achieved, expressed most notably in the 65th minute when the mobile phone lights were turned on and his song was sung.

 

There was a march to celebrate Ranieri’s achievements, the occasional homemade A3 message and someone reworked their bedsheet banner to read “Dilly ding dilly wrong” but no-one called for the removal of the owners, the Srivaddhanaprabha family, or proclaimed the end of football as we know it. One week on from the sacking of the manager who steered Leicester to the title and the outrage has largely come from outside the club.

 

It has come from those who believe that Leicester’s Thai owners should be so eternally grateful for the 2015-16 season that their manager should have stayed indefinitely. Leicester were patronised to death in winning the title and now again in losing it. 

Over and again, we have been told that Ranieri “deserved the chance” to stay at Leicester although four of the five managers who won the six previous Premier League titles have also been sacked or replaced.

 

It is an interesting question. How low does a title-winning manager deserve to take a team in the following seasons before that nebulous quota of goodwill is extinguished and someone is compelled to say, “Sorry Claudio mate, but we’re out of contention for the Vanarama play-offs, I think it is time to make a change”? 

 

On BBC Five Live’s 606 show, Robbie Savage told a Leicester fan who called in to support the owner, Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha, that as a player he would have accepted “eight or nine years” in the Championship and “the odd season” in the Premier League in return for that one title.

 

Funnily enough, if you go back 20 years, including 1996-97, that is roughly what Leicester have done – 10 in the Premier League, 10 in the Championship and one in League One in 2008-09. Even so it goes without saying: exactly from whom is this trade-off available? Because you would be pretty sure that Ipswich Town, among others, would be eager to sign up.

 

It also begs another question, why should Leicester not have ambition? It is the case that having had their season in the sun they simply must go away and bother no one again, or accept a Blackburn Rovers-style decline.

 

Leicester never expected to be champions but having done so they are entitled to protect their status even if it means sacking a decent, likeable man.

 

The notion that Leicester are a nonentity who should simply be grateful is somewhat undermined by their place in the trophy roll call of recent years. If one goes back to 1997, taking into account the three domestic trophies won in that year, and every year since then, the picture is quite striking.

 

From the 1996-97 season Manchester United have won the most with a combined total of 17 Premier League titles, FA Cups and League Cups. Next come Chelsea (14); Arsenal (9); Manchester City and Liverpool (5) and, in sixth place, are Leicester with three.

 

Historically they are ahead of clubs such as Tottenham, on two trophies since 1996-97, and Swansea City, Middlesbrough, Blackburn, Birmingham City, Portsmouth and Wigan Athletic, all on one.

 

It should be said, as politely as possible, that the likes of Everton, West Ham, Southampton, Stoke City, Sunderland, Newcastle United, Aston Villa, West Bromwich Albion – we could go on here – have won none at all in those 21 years.

 

There is no Leicester fans’ song for Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha, the joke being that they keep running out of syllables, but perhaps there should be. It is he who spent around £120 million on the club. He also pledged £2 million towards building a new children’s hospital in the city. He gave £100,000 to the fund to rebury Richard III and £23,000 to a fan who was raising money for research into his son’s rare genetic disorder.

 

For a billionaire who commutes in a helicopter perhaps it is not such big a deal but it has been remembered, which is why the notion of hounding him out is considered utterly ludicrous. It does not mean he will get it right every time, but he has got it right enough times.

 

The League Managers’ Association chief executive Richard Bevan said that Vichai’s decision to sack Ranieri had “undermined the profession”, so it will be interesting to hear from all those managers who refuse to work for Leicester on a point of principle. As things stand, Roy Hodgson looks a good bet and he was de facto LMA president for the four years he was England manager.

 

It is notable that Leicester’s most famous fan, Gary Lineker, described the decision more in terms of the sadness it evoked rather than a sense of injustice. He did say though that Leicester should be building statues fir Ranieri rather than sacking him and of course, the generous Thai owners may yet do that.

 

In the meantime there are two crowdfunded appeals for Ranieri statues that have been launched by separate groups of Leicester fans, one which quotes its project at £100,000 and the other at a cut-price £10,000.

 

By lunchtime on Wednesday they had raised £90 and £817 respectively which suggests there are other issues rather more pertinent to Leicester fans than big bronze statements to reassure the rest of the football world they care about Ranieri’s feelings.

Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted

Superb read.

 

They all thought we were going to turn up, boo the team and attack the owners didn't they?

 

No self pity in this City.

ARTY_FOX

ARTY_FOX

Posted
Posted

Nice to see not everyone buys into the 'know your place' bullshit and hysteria. If they're happy with a club with no ambition good for them. We know better

Guest Bob Hazels shorts

Guest Bob Hazels shorts

Posted
Posted

Great piece and one which all sensible would recognize and agree with.

 

 

Chico1958

Chico1958

Posted
Posted

Good article, I have said before and I'll say it again.......... I would have liked a better ending to Claudios Leicester experience.

 

I still have doubt's about the players contribution and their support for the man who helped them achieve what they did.

 

With a heavy heart I agree that we were doomed if Claudio had stayed, because I don't think the players would have played like that Monday.

 

Either because they had been told not to or their heart wasn't in it.

 

Football didn't die but perhaps a little piece of history has been tarnished ............... But if we stay up the decision itself will also be justified in the history books.

 

 

davieG

davieG

Posted
Posted

The Italian's dismissal has raised questions over just how much can be attributed to a manager

Miguel Delaney Chief Football Writer 

@MiguelDelaney 


The Independent Football

Claudio Ranieri's presence in the Leicester dugout was just one of many things that fell the club's way Getty

If the common call outside the Leicester City dressing room was that the Leicester City players should feel ashamed themselves after the 3-1 win over Liverpool, that certainly wasn’t the feeling inside it.

The squad were energised, refocused, reassured. The sense is that things are back on track.

That has naturally raised questions over to what extent the Leicester squad were actually willing to perform for Claudio Ranieri but some of those questions should perhaps be turned on their head, because the entire episode actually raises even deeper themes about management and how clubs are fundamentally run. 

 

If it really is that easy to turn it around, how much did the Italian actually do? And, in general, how much does a manager actually do in the modern game? Where does responsibility for success and failure really lie?

One pronounced theme throughout the aftermath of Ranieri’s sacking has been that the Leicester squad should have been grateful to the manager, with the undercurrent that he was fired despite one of the greatest managerial achievements in history.

None of this is to say that the club could have won the title without Ranieri or that it is not sad one of the key figures had to go but, to be blunt, this was not really one of those transformative managerial feats like Bill Shankly or Sir Matt Busby creating the modern Liverpool or Manchester United. It was managerial alchemy like Brian Clough with Nottingham Forest.

 

Leicester’s title offering one of the greatest stories in football history does not necessarily mean it was one of the great managerial achievements.

The true key to the tale, and just one reason why it was so statistically improbable, was that it required hundreds of different elements going right at exactly the same time. When you properly lay it out, it makes the story all the more incredible. Before anything, there was the run they were on from the previous season, the way the team suddenly fitted together so well and the existing structures - as well as the expertise of someone like Steve Walsh - coming up with a player like N’Golo Kante.

Then there were so many players enjoying the season of their lives, at the same time that so many wealthier clubs endured massive drop-offs. Leicester were suddenly on a roll with no-one really testing their nerve by putting them under proper run-in pressure, and all of their key players generally staying clear of injury and suspension. Any time it did look like there might be a wobble, then, they got the bounces of the ball.

On top of all that, of course, was Ranieri. Through his charm, easy manner and tactical experience, it is possible that he was actually the ideal figure to oversee all of this; that he simply had the easy-going but still hard-edged personality to steer a structure already moving in the right direction. He was, in that way, vital.

 

The point, however, is that he was just one of many very important part rather than a more overarching boss in the way someone like Mauricio Pochettino or Jose Mourinho is, let alone patriarchal figures like Sir Alex Ferguson or Arsène Wenger.

Those parts stopped connecting and working together in the way they used to, so something needed to change. Ranieri was just the part easiest to change. That was emotionally sad but, taking everything into account, it was the rational decision.

It has also raised all manner of arguments about the dispensability of managers and a quick hire-and-fire-em culture but is this not the rational way to run any club? That managers should be dispensable?

Ranieri will be fondly remembered by Leicester's support despite his painful departure (Getty)

The days of entrusting your entire club culture and approach to the personal whims of one man now seem so antiquated, and prone to cyclical failure and upheaval, given it’s impossible to predict whether you’ll end up with a Ferguson or a Wenger.

It surely makes much more sense for a modern institution to build up a structure based on the right guiding ideals rather than a handful of figures who just happen to be the right people at that exact time. The latter, of course, can change. What should be unchangeable, however, is a club being able to weather bad results or personnel leaving - like, for example, Southampton and Sevilla have specialised in.

This doesn’t mean managers aren’t important or recede in relevance. Clearly, clubs should still go for the best people and, as with any job, some will just do it better than ever. Even the right manager in that kind of structure can still be completely transformative.

It’s just that it’s probably much better when clubs are in a situation where, when they do achieve something, it is actually harder to draw the distinctive line between what the manager did and how much was down to what was already there.

That feels like it was the case at Leicester last season. Whether it was true could be definitively proved over the next few weeks.

davieG

davieG

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Babylon said:

Take a bow Brian Reade...

 

http://bit.ly/2lzQSSr

 

What's going on, has the good sense embargo been lifted.

I'm been making these into new topics to balance out all the shit stuff that's been posted.

Corky

Corky

Posted
Posted

Brian Reade's comment (in an excellent piece) about "never moving on from Ranieri but living in the present" is spot on and where the "grateful" tag needs to be clarified. Nobody is taking the title win away from him, people are sad he's gone but it might be for the best in the long-term.

 

 

Corky

Corky

Posted
Posted
46 minutes ago, MattP said:

Superb read.

 

They all thought we were going to turn up, boo the team and attack the owners didn't they?

 

No self pity in this City.

I thought the atmosphere was excellent. Got behind the team, backed the owners, supported the caretaker manager but still gave a fully deserved ovation to the previous manager. We had exactly the right balance.

Webbo

Webbo

Posted
Posted

All these articles seem to be coming out after we won on Monday. I wonder if they wouldn't have been slagging us off if we'd lost?

Semper Eadem

Semper Eadem

Posted
Posted

Of course it was not all down to CR and, correct me if I am mistaken, I do not recall that he ever suggested that it was. By the same token neither can he be held totally responsible for our situation (prior to Monday evening.)

 

What is certain is that last last season everyone was pulling in the same direction, took personal responsibility and shared in the success (rightly so.)  What is not so certain is that the same has applied this season (prior to Monday evening.)

 

Nothing is black and white.

Stadt

Stadt

Posted
Posted

Had no idea about this "From the 1996-97 season Manchester United have won the most with a combined total of 17 Premier League titles, FA Cups and League Cups. Next come Chelsea (14); Arsenal (9); Manchester City and Liverpool (5) and, in sixth place, are Leicester with three." which is absolutely fantastic when you consider we've only been in the top flight for 9 of those 20 seasons. Add in a new ground, administration, a managerial merry go round, our lowest ebb, Sousa, Sven and spunking of money, Nige cutting the cloth, record points total, a great escape and the greatest sporting story ever it's not been half bad supporting us.

 

Thracian

Thracian

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, davieG said:

Leicester fans back their chairman - outrage over Claudio Ranieri has come from outside

SAM WALLACECHIEF FOOTBALL WRITER

1 MARCH 2017 • 5:59PM

 

If you missed the online bookmakers’ stunt involving a hearse and a flower arrangement that read “RIP football” at the King Power Stadium on Monday night then you were not alone – were the gambling commission also to regulate lame ideas, it would have earned an immediate charge.

 

Best not to go through the excruciating detail, other than to say that it was supposed to signify what Claudio Ranieri’s sacking meant for the soul of the game because when people look for answers to the big questions of the age, obviously online bookmakers tend to be the first port of call. The response was so underwhelming even the bookies in question, a publicity-ravenous operation, quietly dropped the whole thing.

 

Not for the first time the mood of football fans was called wrong, and the true answers were to be found by watching the reaction of the Leicester City fans who attended the King Power. There was no mass outpouring of rage at Ranieri’s sacking, rather it was heartfelt thanks for what had been achieved, expressed most notably in the 65th minute when the mobile phone lights were turned on and his song was sung.

 

There was a march to celebrate Ranieri’s achievements, the occasional homemade A3 message and someone reworked their bedsheet banner to read “Dilly ding dilly wrong” but no-one called for the removal of the owners, the Srivaddhanaprabha family, or proclaimed the end of football as we know it. One week on from the sacking of the manager who steered Leicester to the title and the outrage has largely come from outside the club.

 

It has come from those who believe that Leicester’s Thai owners should be so eternally grateful for the 2015-16 season that their manager should have stayed indefinitely. Leicester were patronised to death in winning the title and now again in losing it. 

Over and again, we have been told that Ranieri “deserved the chance” to stay at Leicester although four of the five managers who won the six previous Premier League titles have also been sacked or replaced.

 

It is an interesting question. How low does a title-winning manager deserve to take a team in the following seasons before that nebulous quota of goodwill is extinguished and someone is compelled to say, “Sorry Claudio mate, but we’re out of contention for the Vanarama play-offs, I think it is time to make a change”? 

 

On BBC Five Live’s 606 show, Robbie Savage told a Leicester fan who called in to support the owner, Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha, that as a player he would have accepted “eight or nine years” in the Championship and “the odd season” in the Premier League in return for that one title.

 

Funnily enough, if you go back 20 years, including 1996-97, that is roughly what Leicester have done – 10 in the Premier League, 10 in the Championship and one in League One in 2008-09. Even so it goes without saying: exactly from whom is this trade-off available? Because you would be pretty sure that Ipswich Town, among others, would be eager to sign up.

 

It also begs another question, why should Leicester not have ambition? It is the case that having had their season in the sun they simply must go away and bother no one again, or accept a Blackburn Rovers-style decline.

 

Leicester never expected to be champions but having done so they are entitled to protect their status even if it means sacking a decent, likeable man.

 

The notion that Leicester are a nonentity who should simply be grateful is somewhat undermined by their place in the trophy roll call of recent years. If one goes back to 1997, taking into account the three domestic trophies won in that year, and every year since then, the picture is quite striking.

 

From the 1996-97 season Manchester United have won the most with a combined total of 17 Premier League titles, FA Cups and League Cups. Next come Chelsea (14); Arsenal (9); Manchester City and Liverpool (5) and, in sixth place, are Leicester with three.

 

Historically they are ahead of clubs such as Tottenham, on two trophies since 1996-97, and Swansea City, Middlesbrough, Blackburn, Birmingham City, Portsmouth and Wigan Athletic, all on one.

 

It should be said, as politely as possible, that the likes of Everton, West Ham, Southampton, Stoke City, Sunderland, Newcastle United, Aston Villa, West Bromwich Albion – we could go on here – have won none at all in those 21 years.

 

There is no Leicester fans’ song for Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha, the joke being that they keep running out of syllables, but perhaps there should be. It is he who spent around £120 million on the club. He also pledged £2 million towards building a new children’s hospital in the city. He gave £100,000 to the fund to rebury Richard III and £23,000 to a fan who was raising money for research into his son’s rare genetic disorder.

 

For a billionaire who commutes in a helicopter perhaps it is not such big a deal but it has been remembered, which is why the notion of hounding him out is considered utterly ludicrous. It does not mean he will get it right every time, but he has got it right enough times.

 

The League Managers’ Association chief executive Richard Bevan said that Vichai’s decision to sack Ranieri had “undermined the profession”, so it will be interesting to hear from all those managers who refuse to work for Leicester on a point of principle. As things stand, Roy Hodgson looks a good bet and he was de facto LMA president for the four years he was England manager.

 

It is notable that Leicester’s most famous fan, Gary Lineker, described the decision more in terms of the sadness it evoked rather than a sense of injustice. He did say though that Leicester should be building statues fir Ranieri rather than sacking him and of course, the generous Thai owners may yet do that.

 

In the meantime there are two crowdfunded appeals for Ranieri statues that have been launched by separate groups of Leicester fans, one which quotes its project at £100,000 and the other at a cut-price £10,000.

 

By lunchtime on Wednesday they had raised £90 and £817 respectively which suggests there are other issues rather more pertinent to Leicester fans than big bronze statements to reassure the rest of the football world they care about Ranieri’s feelings.

Best article I've read on the subject by a distance. Not just for it's logic but it's depth, background and individual slant.  

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