Finsbury Park

[Buce]

6 minutes ago, Wookie said:

I really appreciate discussion like the last few pages were people have been able to express opinions without being jumped upon,  I absolutely hate twitter whenever a terrorist attack happens because the racist idiots come to the fore but so do people so afraid of being racist that they'll refuse to criticise even Islamic extremists. 

 

Another problem though that I don't think has been mentioned enough is how difficult it is to renounce or leave Islam (it's true of other religions too but to a lesser extent), leaving Islamic communities for the majority of muslims leads to them being disowned so it's quite difficult to for a Islam to become less strict over time because there's quite a lot of internal pressure to be devout. Hinduism and Sikhism have become more liberal over time whereas Islam is still quite strict in comparison. I think it'd benefit everybody if over time religion faded into obscurity or if at least religious followers were much less devout.

 

Is it ok to say you don't like Islam? I don't like Christianity either but I feel like it's become taboo to express that belief. I wouldn't be prejudice towards individuals but on the whole I dislike the faith.

 

Apostasy is punishable by death in Islam:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

[Dr The Singh]

8 minutes ago, Wookie said:

I really appreciate discussion like the last few pages were people have been able to express opinions without being jumped upon,  I absolutely hate twitter whenever a terrorist attack happens because the racist idiots come to the fore but so do people so afraid of being racist that they'll refuse to criticise even Islamic extremists. 

 

Another problem though that I don't think has been mentioned enough is how difficult it is to renounce or leave Islam (it's true of other religions too but to a lesser extent), leaving Islamic communities for the majority of muslims leads to them being disowned so it's quite difficult to for a Islam to become less strict over time because there's quite a lot of internal pressure to be devout. Hinduism and Sikhism have become more liberal over time whereas Islam is still quite strict in comparison. I think it'd benefit everybody if over time religion faded into obscurity or if at least religious followers were much less devout.

 

Is it ok to say you don't like Islam? I don't like Christianity either but I feel like it's become taboo to express that belief. I wouldn't be prejudice towards individuals but on the whole I dislike the faith.

I think it's fair to say you don't like anything, if you said you don't like Sikhism, I'm cool with that

[Stadt]

22 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

I think it's fair to say you don't like anything, if you said you don't like Sikhism, I'm cool with that

I like Hindus and Sikhs! Both very relaxed faiths

[Alf Bentley]

2 hours ago, Dr The Singh said:

Can you summarise in 3 sentences, please

 

1) Dara O'Briain tells a joke about an Islamic golden horse that gives cakes to all the kids.

2) Churchill thought Gandhi should be trampled to death by an elephant ridden by a Viceroy.

3) John McDonnell didn't lead a communist coup in London yesterday.

 

[Dr The Singh]

2 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

1) Dara O'Briain tells a joke about an Islamic golden horse that gives cakes to all the kids.

2) Churchill thought Gandhi should be trampled to death by an elephant ridden by a Viceroy.

3) John McDonnell didn't lead a communist coup in London yesterday.

 

I wish number 2 had happened

[Dr The Singh]

13 minutes ago, Wookie said:

I like Hindus and Sikhs! Both very relaxed faiths

Both have cooonts within though

[Dr The Singh]

4 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

1) Dara O'Briain tells a joke about an Islamic golden horse that gives cakes to all the kids.

2) Churchill thought Gandhi should be trampled to death by an elephant ridden by a Viceroy.

3) John McDonnell didn't lead a communist coup in London yesterday.

 

Thank you sexy

[urban.spaceman]

The ex-Muslim issue is a massive one and it's a shame that there don't seem to be many vocal or prominent ones in the UK. They're quiet for a reason. Aayan Hirsi Ali is in hiding with constant security for a reason. It's the same reason that I seriously doubt the credibility of the figure of 1.6bn Muslims in the world. I wonder how many closeted ex-Muslims there truly are??

[Mickyblueeyes]

9 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

The ex-Muslim issue is a massive one and it's a shame that there don't seem to be many vocal or prominent ones in the UK. They're quiet for a reason. Aayan Hirsi Ali is in hiding with constant security for a reason. It's the same reason that I seriously doubt the credibility of the figure of 1.6bn Muslims in the world. I wonder how many closeted ex-Muslims there truly are??

Err...Sajid Javid is the business secretary ?. Pretty prominent, vocal and public figure. In the real world, not being taken over by Halal meat there's many out there who do not take part in the census and are not in constant hiding. Seriously, get out more.

[Guest MattP]

17 hours ago, hackneyfox said:

Why is my opinion unfair and unbalanced? Because it differs on your opinins about TR?

I wouldn't lock Robinson up and I'm hoping that you don't bang on about your beliefs in the hope of formenting civil unrest, unlike TR.

Because you claimed whatever he said you regarded it a's hate speech, if that's the starting point it would be impossible to be think and consider his points from a neutral standpoint.

 

17 hours ago, Buce said:

Would you agree that we need less Christianity too?

 

I'm pretty sure the Old Testament encourages violence.

 

17 hours ago, hackneyfox said:

Do you have the same opinion of the bible?

Yes.

 

One of the reasons I'm so surprised and bemused why we want more Islam is fifteen years ago I genuinely believe Europe was happy to be heading towards a secular future.

 

So I want less Christianity as well, does that make me far right? Does it means I hate Christians? Is it hate speech?

[Nick]

5 minutes ago, MattP said:

Because you claimed whatever he said you regarded it a's hate speech, if that's the starting point it would be impossible to be think and consider his points from a neutral standpoint.

 

 

Yes.

 

One of the reasons I'm so surprised and bemused why we want more Islam is fifteen years ago I genuinely believe Europe was happy to be heading towards a secular future.

 

So I want less Christianity as well, does that make me far right? Does it means I hate Christians? Is it hate speech?

 

 

Morning Adolf...

 

 

 

[Guest MattP]

1 minute ago, Swan Lesta said:

 

 

Morning Adolf...

 

 

 

 

I do wonder if we need a different political position to describe someone who is anti-religion or specifically anti-Islam - I've always associated the "far-right" with white supremacy. The opposition to the Islamification of Europe isn't that at all.

 

How it should be redefined I have no idea.

[Alf Bentley]

12 hours ago, Dr The Singh said:

Thank you sexy

 

You're welcome, Lustyloins.

[hejammy]

13 hours ago, Wookie said:

I really appreciate discussion like the last few pages were people have been able to express opinions without being jumped upon,  I absolutely hate twitter whenever a terrorist attack happens because the racist idiots come to the fore but so do people so afraid of being racist that they'll refuse to criticise even Islamic extremists. 

 

Another problem though that I don't think has been mentioned enough is how difficult it is to renounce or leave Islam (it's true of other religions too but to a lesser extent), leaving Islamic communities for the majority of muslims leads to them being disowned so it's quite difficult to for a Islam to become less strict over time because there's quite a lot of internal pressure to be devout. Hinduism and Sikhism have become more liberal over time whereas Islam is still quite strict in comparison. I think it'd benefit everybody if over time religion faded into obscurity or if at least religious followers were much less devout.

 

Is it ok to say you don't like Islam? I don't like Christianity either but I feel like it's become taboo to express that belief. I wouldn't be prejudice towards individuals but on the whole I dislike the faith.

There are plenty of Muslims I know who don't "practice" Islam. So actually that point is fairly redundant. If you don't want to practice a religion no one is going to check up on you on a daily basis, contrary to popular belief imams don't insist that you snapchat everything "islamic" that you do..... 

 

Its actually funny how people make stuff up or read something on the Internet and believe its the gospel truth. Or that they see a few people do something and assume anyone with the same religion or same belief do exactly the same. How many people hated Islam before 9/11? It's crappy to keep propping up the racism card but there certainly are some people on here who are overtly bigoted. Hate for the sake of hating, unreasonably and will not answer questions which do not agree to their stubborn viewpoints. Sad really. 

[hejammy]

43 minutes ago, MattP said:

 

I do wonder if we need a different political position to describe someone who is anti-religion or specifically anti-Islam - I've always associated the "far-right" with white supremacy. The opposition to the Islamification of Europe isn't that at all.

 

How it should be redefined I have no idea.

Come on Matt, you cannot be serious with that statement? Based on what? Your choice of takeways which don't serve halal meat? 

[Buce]

13 hours ago, Dr The Singh said:

Thank you sexy

 

35 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

You're welcome, Lustyloins.

 

[Stadt]

Just now, hejammy said:

There are plenty of Muslims I know who don't "practice" Islam.

That's not the same as apostasy though is it? 

This is probably why http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34357047 it's an old article but I think it's horrifying that there's cases were people are more faithful to their religion rather than their own family all because of the stigma of shaming the whole family. 

[hejammy]

7 minutes ago, Wookie said:

That's not the same as apostasy though is it? 

This is probably why http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34357047 it's an old article but I think it's horrifying that there's cases were people are more faithful to their religion rather than their own family all because of the stigma of shaming the whole family. 

Isn't apostasy in this country and day and age irrelevant? If someone does not want to be Christian do they announce it to the world that they want to be an atheist or they want to convert to another religion? Most non practicing Muslims just want to go about their lives. They don't want to make a "song and dance" about it? I could pull out an article from an Indian family living in India who happen to be hindu having similar "shaming the family issues" 

[Dr The Singh]

45 minutes ago, hejammy said:

Isn't apostasy in this country and day and age irrelevant? If someone does not want to be Christian do they announce it to the world that they want to be an atheist or they want to convert to another religion? Most non practicing Muslims just want to go about their lives. They don't want to make a "song and dance" about it? I could pull out an article from an Indian family living in India who happen to be hindu having similar "shaming the family issues" 

No it's not irrelevant, Muhammad didn't think it was irrelevant.  In India, according to the Indian Constitution, Sikhs are Hindus, which is absurd, however my father is an athiest, he would never want to be called Sikh, because it's not true, it's like gays pretending to be straight.

 

Majority converts to announce to all there faith, especially when asked it's common sense?

 

So what is the punishment of apostacy prescribed by the leader of your faith, in your hadiths and prescribed today.

[Dr The Singh]

1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

 

Jealous

[hejammy]

6 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

No it's not irrelevant, Muhammad didn't think it was irrelevant.  In India, according to the Indian Constitution, Sikhs are Hindus, which is absurd, however my father is an athiest, he would never want to be called Sikh, because it's not true, it's like gays pretending to be straight.

 

Majority converts to announce to all there faith, especially when asked it's common sense?

 

So what is the punishment of apostacy prescribed by the leader of your faith, in your hadiths and prescribed today.

Oh here we go Mr Singh, rather than getting into this with you I chose to abstain, anyone else want to ask a question I'd be happy to oblige. As mentioned before, don't make assumptions about my faith, I have never mentioned anything about my faith before. I really do not have any time for your antogistic nature 

 

Oh and just before you get off your high horse... Have a read:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/my-people-refuse-to-talk-about-honour-killings-1845103.html

 

Seems silly to kill someone because of who they fall in love with right? Never mind a family member.... 

 

Its the minority.... Something that a few people chose to ignore 

[Dr The Singh]

3 minutes ago, hejammy said:

Oh here we go Mr Singh, rather than getting into this with you I chose to abstain, anyone else want to ask a question I'd be happy to oblige. As mentioned before, don't make assumptions about my faith, I have never mentioned anything about my faith before. I really do not have any time for your antogistic nature 

That's sad you feel like that.  I'm not trying to cause an argument, I'm just confused by your statements......you say apostacy is irrelevant, or showing you are not a religion or changed faith is not important, yet your religion has clear guidance for apostates, so it must be relevant, you have stuff about it written in the Qur'an, so is the Qur'an not relevant?

 

Being a non Muslim I am very confused.  Majority of practising Muslims I know have concerns about apostacy, most believe it was written for a time where crisis and battle of losing numbers were critical and it probably isn't relevant in times of peace.  Which I think is a weak arguement to be fair.

 

Are you open enough to be critical of your faith?  Question it, challenge it?

[hejammy]

Just now, Dr The Singh said:

That's sad you feel like that.  I'm not trying to cause an argument, I'm just confused by your statements......you say apostacy is irrelevant, or showing you are not a religion or changed faith is not important, yet your religion has clear guidance for apostates, so it must be relevant, you have stuff about it written in the Qur'an, so is the Qur'an not relevant?

 

Being a non Muslim I am very confused.  Majority of practising Muslims I know have concerns about apostacy, most believe it was written for a time where crisis and battle of losing numbers were critical and it probably isn't relevant in times of peace.  Which I think is a weak arguement to be fair.

 

Are you open enough to be critical of your faith?  Question it, challenge it?

And you chose to ignore my request to not assume what my faith is because? 

 

Read my previous post carefully. It was me saying it's irrelevant in this country in this day and age as the last time I checked there was no "sharia law" in this country (yes I know shock horror) 

[Dr The Singh]

Just now, hejammy said:

And you chose to ignore my request to not assume what my faith is because? 

 

Read my previous post carefully. It was me saying it's irrelevant in this country in this day and age as the last time I checked there was no "sharia law" in this country (yes I know shock horror) 

Sorry hejammy, I assumed your islamic, because you tend only to post when Islam/Muslims are involved

 

What you written in bold is what other Muslims I know have said.  So if there is Sharia law or even Sharia courts, should we be concerned?  Do you think it's right that people be killed because they change there faith?

[hejammy]

1 minute ago, Dr The Singh said:

Sorry hejammy, I assumed your islamic, because you tend only to post when Islam/Muslims are involved

 

What you written in bold is what other Muslims I know have said.  So if there is Sharia law or even Sharia courts, should we be concerned?  Do you think it's right that people be killed because they change there faith?

this is why I said I don't want to get into a discussion with you. You antagonise, use people's post out of context and often put "words in people's mouths". You chose to ignore questions that are not to your liking and become a "closed book" when people talk about your faith and criticise others when they are not open. That's not my idea of a healthy debate. 

 

Oh and your question.... I'm not even going to justify it with an answer. You obviously know more about "Islamic" people than anyone. So perhaps you just go ahead and entertain yourself. My last post responding to you so you crack on mate...