Buce Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 38 minutes ago, MattP said: A few people have claimed this now but has he actually been convicted of it? You were claiming it of the guy with the hook for a hand (correctly), long before he was convicted of anything. Sometimes it's obvious to all but the CPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 15 hours ago, MattP said: Only 400 turned up! I don't know, you get your Spectator magazine and black pudding ready and the left let you down, no idea how to organise a protest these days I appreciate being called a "mystery man" - the truth unfortunately it I'm much more simple, thanks for the compliments, I've actually spent a few hours thinking about this post and tonight went out with a friend who is a Labour member and mentioned a few things to him from it, he said what you have and agreed with it, broadly I'm a right winger but he also said I show elements of far-right thinking, I asked him what and he said broadly the same as you, immigration and anti-Islamic rhetoric, I do believe Britain needs less Sunni Islamic immigration, I would never want to pick on individuals but I just don't see the long term risk as one that is worthwhile, as I say I don't think it's actually going to become a viewpoint that is regarded as too extreme anymore and not one that is on the end of the political spectrum, it wouldn't even surprise me if this sort of opinion came fairly mainstream soon, some of the things we say now about immigration numbers would have been considered racist a few years ago - No one has a definitive political position, 'm sure most on the left have at leats one viewpoint that is No argument from me we need more integration and communication, it's the only way we'll beat this, I was saddened today to see a picture of advertising (I've not posted on here as I don't know if it's genuine picture and am still trying to find out) for the "North London Muslim Housing Association" (supported by the London mayor) - if that's the future I have no idea what the plan in, how do you preach integration by building housing blocks for people of a certain religion? I still don't think we are going to see any sort of major rise in the far right, we are too good a nation for that, we are one who enjoy company of others, one of tolerance. Maybe I'm complacent? I just don't see it though? Enough rambling, I'm pissed, time for QT and This Week. That's honest - fair play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 11 minutes ago, Buce said: Fair enough. Do you think that was true of all white families? What do you think led to the area being predominantly 'Indian'? We had to move as I explained earlier, we probably wouldn't have done if not, my dad liked it round there. Whether he still would have done if we'd have been the last white family in the street I don't know. When we sold our house it was to an Indian. It was obvious that's the way it was going. Everyone we knew eventually moved to Rushey or Beaumont Leys. Belgrave was known as dummy town because there was all young families there, they were cheap houses like starter homes, they would have moved eventually anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackneyfox Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 51 minutes ago, MattP said: A few people have claimed this now but has he actually been convicted of it? Do you need to be convicted for it to be true? Robinson seems to be happy to accuse others of it whether they've been convicted or not (see Choudary). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 44 minutes ago, Buce said: You were claiming it of the guy with the hook for a hand (correctly), long before he was convicted of anything. Sometimes it's obvious to all but the CPS. The guy with the Hook Abu Hamza was convicted of inciting violence in his speeches in 2006. Long before I ventured into General Chat on here. 32 minutes ago, hackneyfox said: Do you need to be convicted for it to be true? Robinson seems to be happy to accuse others of it whether they've been convicted or not (see Choudary). Anjem Choudary has received a five year prison sentence for encouraging support for ISIS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 1 minute ago, MattP said: The guy with the Hook Abu Hamza was convicted of inciting violence in his speeches in 2006. Long before I ventured into General Chat on here. Anjem Choudary has received a five year prison sentence for encouraging support for ISIS. Ah, ok. I'm fairly sure there was someone, though. Could it have been Choudary before he was convicted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackneyfox Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 15 minutes ago, MattP said: The guy with the Hook Abu Hamza was convicted of inciting violence in his speeches in 2006. Long before I ventured into General Chat on here. Anjem Choudary has received a five year prison sentence for encouraging support for ISIS. So he wasn't a 'hate preacher' until he was convicted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 3 minutes ago, hackneyfox said: So he wasn't a 'hate preacher' until he was convicted? Well officially I suppose not. If Tommy Robinson has given a hate speech you should report it to the police. Problem is the term has been devalues, I've heard people genuinely claim things like Nigel Farage on Question Time is hate speech. Do you remember that moronic professor from Cambridge who reported Amber Rudd for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackneyfox Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 3 minutes ago, MattP said: Well officially I suppose not. If Tommy Robinson has given a hate speech you should report it to the police. Problem is the term has been devalues, I've heard people genuinely claim things like Nigel Farage on Question Time is hate speech. Do you remember that moronic professor from Cambridge who reported Amber Rudd for it? Personally I view everything Robinson says as hate speach, even when it sounds reasonable (by his standards) he has an agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 2 minutes ago, hackneyfox said: Personally I view everything Robinson says as hate speach, even when it sounds reasonable (by his standards) he has an agenda. Well I'm glad you come to the table with such a fair and balanced viewpoint. Would you lock me up if I said I believe Britain needs less Islam? Or if I said the Koran is a vile book that encourages violence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackneyfox Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 3 minutes ago, MattP said: Well I'm glad you come to the table with such a fair and balanced viewpoint. Would you lock me up if I said I believe Britain needs less Islam? Or if I said the Koran is a vile book that encourages violence? Why is my opinion unfair and unbalanced? Because it differs on your opinins about TR? I wouldn't lock Robinson up and I'm hoping that you don't bang on about your beliefs in the hope of formenting civil unrest, unlike TR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 2 minutes ago, MattP said: Well I'm glad you come to the table with such a fair and balanced viewpoint. Would you lock me up if I said I believe Britain needs less Islam? Or if I said the Koran is a vile book that encourages violence? Would you agree that we need less Christianity too? I'm pretty sure the Old Testament encourages violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackneyfox Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 5 minutes ago, MattP said: Well I'm glad you come to the table with such a fair and balanced viewpoint. Would you lock me up if I said I believe Britain needs less Islam? Or if I said the Koran is a vile book that encourages violence? Do you have the same opinion of the bible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackneyfox Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 How many of the 4 minutes ago, Buce said: Would you agree that we need less Christianity too? I'm pretty sure the Old Testament encourages violence. Have you ever looked at the ten commandments, seems it a worse sin to pray to another god than it is to murder. I am the LORD thy God No other gods before me No graven images or likenesses Not take the LORD's name in vain Remember the sabbath day Honour thy father and thy mother Thou shalt not kill Thou shalt not commit adultery Thou shalt not steal Thou shalt not bear false witness Thou shalt not covet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 9 minutes ago, Buce said: Would you agree that we need less Christianity too? I'm pretty sure the Old Testament encourages violence. Yes. Less religion please, it's a myth, it brainwashes people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 Sorry, where are the devout Christians walking into arenas and blowing up 8 year old children, mowing down people on bridges and stabbing police and drunk people, marching into a cartoonist's office with Kalashnikovs screaming about avenging their prophet, murdering 80 people with articulated lorries, running over British soldiers and hacking him to death, blowing themselves up at football matches while their colleagues massacre 80 people at a rock concert, or flying planes into skyscrapers? Yes, the Bible is equally vile and stupid, but Christianity had a reformation a centuries ago and the sort of people that would commit such atrocities in the name of Jesus are extremely rare, rather minuscule and utterly incomparable to the problem we're facing with the Islamists. Douglas Murray is right in what he says about Robinson - he IS a problem. But he's a secondary problem reacting the first problem - Islamism - which the authorities are failing to deal with. They're finding something to prosecute Robinson with every other week, while Chowdury was allowed to spew hatred, incite murder and form certain Islamist groups that have eventually committed acts of terrorism (Lee Rigby murder, London Bridge). Chowdury is smart and managed to skirt the law, but that's not good enough. The authorities need to be fixing the first problem first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwell Pablo Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 29 minutes ago, Buce said: Would you agree that we need less Christianity too? I'm pretty sure the Old Testament encourages violence. I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 5 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said: Sorry, where are the devout Christians walking into arenas and blowing up 8 year old children, mowing down people on bridges and stabbing police and drunk people, marching into a cartoonist's office with Kalashnikovs screaming about avenging their prophet, murdering 80 people with articulated lorries, running over British soldiers and hacking him to death, blowing themselves up at football matches while their colleagues massacre 80 people at a rock concert, or flying planes into skyscrapers? Yes, the Bible is equally vile and stupid, but Christianity had a reformation a centuries ago and the sort of people that would commit such atrocities in the name of Jesus are extremely rare, rather minuscule and utterly incomparable to the problem we're facing with the Islamists. Douglas Murray is right in what he says about Robinson - he IS a problem. But he's a secondary problem reacting the first problem - Islamism - which the authorities are failing to deal with. They're finding something to prosecute Robinson with every other week, while Chowdury was allowed to spew hatred, incite murder and form certain Islamist groups that have eventually committed acts of terrorism (Lee Rigby murder, London Bridge). Chowdury is smart and managed to skirt the law, but that's not good enough. The authorities need to be fixing the first problem first. 4 Nowhere in the OECD nations (abortion clinics being bombed and the occasional doctor being shot notwithstanding), because their reformation meant that they chose much more clever and subtle (and most importantly, deniable) means of asserting their will. Just because the action isn't overt and spectacular doesn't mean it isn't a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackneyfox Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 5 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said: They're finding something to prosecute Robinson with every other week Has Robinson actually been prosecuted for anything he has said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwell Pablo Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 4 minutes ago, hackneyfox said: Has Robinson actually been prosecuted for anything he has said? No I don't think so. He rarely goes over the top except on occasions where his brain is moving quicker than his mouth and he jumbles his words. Some of the stuff he retweets does make him stand out as anti Muslim for me which is the one thing he claims not to be but then as he didn't say it originally he can't be done for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackneyfox Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 Just what I thought. Urban Spaceman getting a bit carried away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 42 minutes ago, hackneyfox said: Has Robinson actually been prosecuted for anything he has said? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Robinson_(activist)#Criminal_record_during_leadership No... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 1 hour ago, leicsmac said: Nowhere in the OECD nations (abortion clinics being bombed and the occasional doctor being shot notwithstanding), because their reformation meant that they chose much more clever and subtle (and most importantly, deniable) means of asserting their will. Just because the action isn't overt and spectacular doesn't mean it isn't a problem. Fair point, though I didn't say there wasn't a problem, just that it wasn't as bad as the Islamist problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said: They're finding something to prosecute Robinson with every other week 1 hour ago, hackneyfox said: Has Robinson actually been prosecuted for anything he has said? 1 hour ago, Manwell Pablo said: No I don't think so. He rarely goes over the top except on occasions where his brain is moving quicker than his mouth and he jumbles his words. Some of the stuff he retweets does make him stand out as anti Muslim for me which is the one thing he claims not to be but then as he didn't say it originally he can't be done for it. 1 hour ago, hackneyfox said: Just what I thought. Urban Spaceman getting a bit carried away. 52 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Robinson_(activist)#Criminal_record_during_leadership No... He was arrested many times while the leader of the EDL and eventually went to prison for mortgage fraud for 18 months. Chowdary was a benefits cheat and nothing was done for a decade. Anyway, point still stands about primary and secondary problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 23 June 2017 Share Posted 23 June 2017 2 hours ago, Buce said: Would you agree that we need less Christianity too? I'm pretty sure the Old Testament encourages violence. We don't need less of any book but a evolved belief in those books. Xtrians in general have evolved and chose to ignore past doctrines that incited stupidity. Islam of a 7th doctrine has not. It sounds stupid considering bothbeliefs refute evolution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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