Finsbury Park

[Dr The Singh]

41 minutes ago, Webbo said:

#stopfundinghate.

You gonna take a pay cut??

[Dr The Singh]

10 minutes ago, Strokes said:

How very dare you?

Page 7 Man of the day?

[Strokes]

Just now, Dr The Singh said:

Page 7 Man of the day?

If one more person calls me gay today, I'm going to cry my eyes out and ruin my mascara.

[Dr The Singh]

Just now, Strokes said:

If one more person calls me gay today, I'm going to cry my eyes out and ruin my mascara.

Puff

[Webbo]

6 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

You gonna take a pay cut??

I'm full of love.

[Dr The Singh]

8 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I'm full of love.

Your defo full of something....

[urban.spaceman]

19 hours ago, MattP said:

It certainly should and I think everyone knows since Charlie Hebdo that in Britain it simply isn't.

 

Even our best satirical writers or comedians wouldn't dare tell a joke on the TV about the profit Mohammed in the way they would about Jesus or Bhudda.

 

Christopher Hitchins was so right when he said to resist Islam while you can.

Hitchens really is sorely missed. Though sadly in the current climate he'd be labelled as a hate preacher. The worlds gone ****ing mental since he died!

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

Hitchens really is sorely missed. Though sadly in the current climate he'd be labelled as a hate preacher. The worlds gone ****ing mental since he died!

Yep, he would have been no platformed everywhere in 2017 for comments that were actually left wing just fifteen years ago, it's amazing the privilege and protection that certain religion now receives from the media and "progressives" alike.

 

Gladstone and Churchill as well, both would be considered huge "Islamophobes".

[The Guvnor]

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

Hitchens really is sorely missed. Though sadly in the current climate he'd be labelled as a hate preacher. The worlds gone ****ing mental since he died!

Hitchens was a genius and I don't recall him ever losing an argument or debate, and he had more than most, he was so well read it was frightening. A taste of a debate with his Brother Peter.

 

 

[Alf Bentley]

20 hours ago, MattP said:

 

Even our best satirical writers or comedians wouldn't dare tell a joke on the TV about the profit Mohammed in the way they would about Jesus or Bhudda.

 

 

"Profit Mohammed"? Islam is supposed to be opposed to usury, isn't it? 

(I know, you meant "Prophet")

 

Anyway....

 

 

 

 

Or maybe this is how you define "our best satirical writers and comedians".....?

 

 

 

Or why not come up with your own funny jokes about the Prophet Mohammed, Matt?

So long as you're not promoting hatred, I'm sure the mods won't do anything - and as an atheist, I'd be up for some funny jokes about anyone.

I don't remember hearing any good jokes about Jesus or Buddha recently, though....

[Alf Bentley]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

 

Gladstone and Churchill as well, both would be considered huge "Islamophobes".

 

Yes, Tommy Robinson, the ex-EDL Far Right Islamophobic Hate Preacher was making exactly the same point to Piers Morgan the other day....

 

Mind you, according to Wikipedia, Churchill thought that Ghandi should be bound hand and foot and trampled to death by an elephant ridden by an imperial Viceroy.

Gladstone didn't just support empire, his family owned hundreds of slaves and he was PM at a time when women weren't allowed to vote.

I'm not sure we should be guided too closely by the views of even great leaders from 100-150 years ago. Time moves on and the world changes....

 

In view of the similarity between your views and those of Tommy Robinson, here's a little poem for the pair of you, what a lovely couple.... 

 

 

[Alf Bentley]

On a more positive note, the daughter of the bloke killed in Finsbury Park was speaking on the News.

 

Though obviously distraught at her father's death, she called for there to be no retaliation, saying that he was a peaceful man who wouldn't have wanted that.

 

Let's hope that such words and the words and actions of others encourage hotheads in the Muslim community and hotheads fearful or hostile towards Muslims to restrain themselves.

 

Any conflict needs to be between 2 clearly-defined sides:

(1) The twin allies - the Islamist terrorist scum and the Far Right terrorist scum, the only ones to benefit from such social divisions and hostility

(2) The vast majority of decent people who oppose violence, misery, hatred and mistrust..., whatever their race, religion or political opinions. 

[Buce]

10 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Yes, Tommy Robinson, the ex-EDL Far Right Islamophobic Hate Preacher was making exactly the same point to Piers Morgan the other day....

 

Mind you, according to Wikipedia, Churchill thought that Ghandi should be bound hand and foot and trampled to death by an elephant ridden by an imperial Viceroy.

Gladstone didn't just support empire, his family owned hundreds of slaves and he was PM at a time when women weren't allowed to vote.

I'm not sure we should be guided too closely by the views of even great leaders from 100-150 years ago. Time moves on and the world changes....

 

In view of the similarity between your views and those of Tommy Robinson, here's a little poem for the pair of you, what a lovely couple.... 

 

 

 

 

I'd rep that twice, if I could.

[leicsmac]

8 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

On a more positive note, the daughter of the bloke killed in Finsbury Park was speaking on the News.

 

Though obviously distraught at her father's death, she called for there to be no retaliation, saying that he was a peaceful man who wouldn't have wanted that.

 

Let's hope that such words and the words and actions of others encourage hotheads in the Muslim community and hotheads fearful or hostile towards Muslims to restrain themselves.

 

Any conflict needs to be between 2 clearly-defined sides:

(1) The twin allies - the Islamist terrorist scum and the Far Right terrorist scum, the only ones to benefit from such social divisions and hostility

(2) The vast majority of decent people who oppose violence, misery, hatred and mistrust..., whatever their race, religion or political opinions. 

 

Absolutely.

 

Pratchett said it best: the enemy isn't one demographic, it's the baleful and malign powermongers amongst them all.

[Guest MattP]

43 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

Or why not come up with your own funny jokes about the Prophet Mohammed, Matt?

So long as you're not promoting hatred, I'm sure the mods won't do anything - and as an atheist, I'd be up for some funny jokes about anyone.

I don't remember hearing any good jokes about Jesus or Buddha recently, though....

Well for a start I'm not a comedian, even if I was of course I wouldn't do so, we've seen what happens to those who dare to mock it in France. We can hide behind excuses of not knowing much about it (Dara's last bit was good btw) but even if did we wouldn't would we?

 

Maybe Private Eye one year will prove me wrong, I'd be delighted if they did.

 

36 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

Yes, Tommy Robinson, the ex-EDL Far Right Islamophobic Hate Preacher was making exactly the same point to Piers Morgan the other day....

 

Mind you, according to Wikipedia, Churchill thought that Ghandi should be bound hand and foot and trampled to death by an elephant ridden by an imperial Viceroy.

Gladstone didn't just support empire, his family owned hundreds of slaves and he was PM at a time when women weren't allowed to vote.

I'm not sure we should be guided too closely by the views of even great leaders from 100-150 years ago. Time moves on and the world changes....

 

In view of the similarity between your views and those of Tommy Robinson, here's a little poem for the pair of you, what a lovely couple.... 

 

I don't think the way to argue their concerns is to bring up other things they, it's not really relevent in fact it's something you slated Webbo for during the electon campaign for with Corbyn and the IRA etc.

 

If you want to compare me to Tommy Robinson Alf then just be honest and do it. I'm honestly not that fussed, if I had to choose a side between the "ex-EDL Far Right Islamophobic" hate preacher or the people intent on taking Europe down it's current path that it's a tough one, history probably won't be kind to either.

 

As I've said, some of the smartest minds we have had like Christopher Hitchins and now current ones like Douglas Murray and David Starkey all believe the country could probably do with less Islam - you can try and smear this is a "far-right" position if you want to but I have a feeling the days of people swallowing it (certainly if the reaction to ex-EDL Far Right Islamophobi Tommy Robinson with Piers Morgan is to go by) might just be over.

[urban.spaceman]

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

Or why not come up with your own funny jokes about the Prophet Mohammed, Matt?

Two problems with this. 

 

1. Even in modern day Britain you'd do so at the risk of your life.

2. The actual story of Mohammed is laughable enough. 

[Guest MattP]

On the subject of Tommy Robinson, his speech at the Oxford Union is well worth a watch, even if you disagree with everything he says it gives a good picture of why he ended up where he did.

 

He went through some pretty horrific stuff by the sounds of it.

 

His book is back at number 1 as well.

 

 

[urban.spaceman]

1 hour ago, The Guvnor said:

Hitchens was a genius and I don't recall him ever losing an argument or debate, and he had more than most, he was so well read it was frightening. A taste of a debate with his Brother Peter.

 

 

Will definitely rewatch that soon. 

 

For those short on time though here is my all time favourite Hitchslap in which he nails absolutely everything:

 

They should play this just before theology exams. 

[Lionator]

On 21/06/2017 at 06:13, m4DD0gg said:

He is not a fascist. Have you actually watched any of his content?

 

He does speak a lot of sense but the liberals among us (who are actually part of the problem) view him as some sort of 21st century Hitler.

 

His best videos are when he confronts liberal prats outside the house of commons and grills them on what they are actually protesting about and have little to know clue.

Yeah I have. I understand that he's passionate however his methods only fuel the fire even more. He will instigate situations where innocent Muslims are minding their own business, rile them and when they snap, he'll use that as proof that all Muslims are violent.

 

If we let things carry on the way we are doing then it's going to end badly.

If we let the far right rise then it's probably going to end even worse than badly. 

[Alf Bentley]

21 minutes ago, MattP said:

Well for a start I'm not a comedian, even if I was of course I wouldn't do so, we've seen what happens to those who dare to mock it in France. We can hide behind excuses of not knowing much about it (Dara's last bit was good btw) but even if did we wouldn't would we?

 

I don't think the way to argue their concerns is to bring up other things they, it's not really relevent in fact it's something you slated Webbo for during the electon campaign for with Corbyn and the IRA etc.

 

If you want to compare me to Tommy Robinson Alf then just be honest and do it. I'm honestly not that fussed, if I had to choose a side between the "ex-EDL Far Right Islamophobic" hate preacher or the people intent on taking Europe down it's current path that it's a tough one, history probably won't be kind to either.

 

As I've said, some of the smartest minds we have had like Christopher Hitchins and now current ones like Douglas Murray and David Starkey all believe the country could probably do with less Islam - you can try and smear this is a "far-right" position if you want to but I have a feeling the days of people swallowing it (certainly if the reaction to ex-EDL Far Right Islamophobi Tommy Robinson with Piers Morgan is to go by) might just be over.

 

Buce isn't a professional comedian, as far as I'm aware, but he's just posted a joke involving an Imam and circumcision in the joke thread. I don't think he's been taken out by an Islamist hit squad yet, as he posted in another thread.

As well as Dara's joke about the Islamic golden horse delivering cakes, Stewart Lee mocked the Muslim who thought Bin Laden shouldn't have been buried at sea as his death wasn't "in exceptional circumstances" - and Chubby Brown's whole set comprised hostile mockery of Muslims. None of them have been assassinated, so you shouldn't be so fearful of cracking a few jokes about Islam, if you feel like it. Of course, I know you're not really fearful. It's just a standard tactic of those promoting Far Right views (fairly subtly, in your case). They talk about "we" and "they/them" and encourage feelings of fear, vulnerability and victimhood vis-à-vis "the alien other" (Muslims, in this case).

 

My point about Churchill and Gladstone was that they lived in completely different times. We have different expectations now. If you want me to relate it directly to Islam, they lived in times when there were very few Muslims in Britain, whereas there are now many Muslims in this country, even grandparents who were born here. I'd view it as deliberate provocation to raise the Quran and describe it as a "violent and cursed book", as Robinson did - and I'd feel the same if some Islamist scum did the same to the Bible or to some atheist, humanist or political book. I'm sure there is violence in the Quran (I've never read it) and know that there is violence in the Bible (having read a few bits of it), All the great western religions were founded in times when violence was more prevalent, so it's unsurprising. But I wouldn't judge either religion as essentially violent for that reason. Some of their extremist fringes are, of course - and that's a particular problem with Islamism at the moment (just as Irish Republican terrorism was a problem a while back, without the Irish being violent as a race).

 

The Charlie Hebdo terrorist attack was appalling - and a good reason for fighting Islamist extremism (as opposed to Islam) as fiercely and intelligently as we can. The same applies to the disgusting attack on the Manchester concert. That doesn't mean we should shrink from expressing ourselves - or shrink from going to gigs. On the contrary, we should seek to combat them intelligently - but carry on as before, doing what we want and saying what we want (while showing a bit of consideration and respect where appropriate). We should also reject the toxic whispers of those who seek to encourage fear and mistrust so as to promote their Far Right agenda - which you sometimes do yourself.

 

I wouldn't directly compare you to Tommy Robinson as I don't really know where you stand. You're a bit of a mystery man. In person, you're a charming, likable chap and good company. On FT you often express yourself well, mainly arguing a fairly mainstream Thatcherite or Libertarian Right viewpoint. But every now and then, you employ Far Right thinking - as you have here. I don't know why. Whether you have some deep-seated hatred for certain groups that bubbles up occasionally or whether you have some sort of Walter Mitty fantasy of associating yourself with dangerous fascists.....I haven't a clue. I compared your comments about Gladstone & Churchill to Robinson's as you clearly took them from him - from an interview in which he was trying to use recent terrorist attacks to provoke Islamophobic hatred. I'm not impressed with any of that - though I'm sure you won't be bothered.

 

What we could do with is more communication and understanding between different groups - less self-exclusion and segregation by race and religion, more communication between Muslims, other faiths and races, and white Brits, particularly those who feel threatened or vulnerable, rightly or wrongly. More action to bring security to the lives of people who lead insecure lives would also be good. It might steer people away from scumbags like Robinson and reduce mistrust and people feeling threatened. Banning all faith schools in favour of integrated schools that teach about all religions and philosophies would also be helpful in avoiding segregation and mistrust.

 

I do agree with your last point that "the days of people swallowing it" (whatever "it" is) might be over. I suggested after the referendum that circumstances (economic decline, Brexit disaster, Islamist terrorism) could combine to produce a big rise in the Far Right. I still think that it very likely, though I think it was you who scoffed at the suggestion a year ago. Given what I heard in Kent about the rise of Britain First, I'm not surprised to hear that Robinson's book is selling well (different group, I know). And that's before any economic/Brexit bad shit descends on people. If there's a big surge for the Far Right, there might be a role in that for you - if you want it. I hope you don't, obviously. The choice isn't between Islamists and the Far Right, as you suggest. Those two have the same interests - polarising opinion and stoking up hatred, conflict and violence. The choice is between the pair of them, on the one hand, and tolerance, communication, mutual respect and democracy, on the other.  

 

p.s. What happened to the left-wing coup that you promised yesterday? I was expecting to see the hammer and sickle flying above Downing Street, and McDonnell's grinning mug standing there.... 

[Alf Bentley]

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

Two problems with this. 

 

1. Even in modern day Britain you'd do so at the risk of your life.

2. The actual story of Mohammed is laughable enough. 

 

I've just posted video clips by 3 comedians who partly or wholly laugh at aspects of Islam or particular Muslims. None of them have been killed. In fact, I can't remember any British comedians being murdered by Islamists.

Of course, people were recently killed by Islamists for attending a gig - so maybe we should stop playing and listening to music, should we? No, I don't think so!

 

Given your first comment, you have now presumably risked your life by making your second comment. 

[Manwell Pablo]

2 hours ago, MattP said:

On the subject of Tommy Robinson, his speech at the Oxford Union is well worth a watch, even if you disagree with everything he says it gives a good picture of why he ended up where he did.

 

He went through some pretty horrific stuff by the sounds of it.

 

His book is back at number 1 as well.

 

 

 

Having the pleasure of living in a "Muslim ghetto" for two years although I think tommy probably doesn't have a clue what an actual ghetto looks like I do have to say these things go on. I've got a two inch scar across my left eyebrow and could of suffered a lot worse in two separate incidents and had a Muslim gang pull up outside our house demanding that white bitches fight them, he's right there's a problem.

 

Problem is I'm not convinced his motives stop at that problem and I know first hand not everyone who follows his organisation restrict their venom to extremists. 

 

Still at the very least no matter what you think of him he is the product of his surroundings.

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

Having the pleasure of living in a "Muslim ghetto" for two years although I think tommy probably doesn't have a clue what an actual ghetto looks like I do have to say these things go on. I've got a two inch scar across my left eyebrow and could of suffered a lot worse in two separate incidents and had a Muslim gang pull up outside our house demanding that white bitches fight them, he's right there's a problem.

 

Problem is I'm not convinced his motives stop at that problem and I know first hand not everyone who follows his organisation restrict their venom to extremists. 

 

Still at the very least no matter what you think of him he is the product of his surroundings.

Would you mind sharing where you lived for two years?

[Matt]

2 hours ago, MattP said:

On the subject of Tommy Robinson, his speech at the Oxford Union is well worth a watch, even if you disagree with everything he says it gives a good picture of why he ended up where he did.

 

He went through some pretty horrific stuff by the sounds of it.

 

His book is back at number 1 as well.

 

 

 

 

 

[Manwell Pablo]

22 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Would you mind sharing where you lived for two years?

 

Sort of north Huddersfield, greenhead area.

 

the Midlands I've found, Leicester in particular, is a haven in diversity. Smaller towns (short of city status) particularly Luton and many round Bradford like Barnsley Rotherham Huddersfield and stretching out to Lancashire in places like Burnley have serious issues on both sides, the sad thing is it's they target the innocent as if they targeted each other they'd fight back.