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Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

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2 minutes ago, murphy said:

Right, so you just mean that the working class that vote tory are stupid?  

 

By definition. 

 

See, it wasn’t that difficult after all. 

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4 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Man, people have been rattling your cage for entertainment all day. 

 

You are the gift that keeps giving. 

Maybe, but it is tricky to keep multiple convos on the go at the same time.  It was coming quicker than I could reply this morning but it was quite enjoyable.

 

To say they were doing it for entertainment is wrong and you know it.  There was some pretty pissed off po faced people this morning.

 

The one thing I will take from it is that these self proclaimed 'compassionate human beings' really know how to tolerate a different point of view to their own and engage in a pleasant way.  

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2 minutes ago, murphy said:

Ha!  I dunno. 

 

I guess there's no end to my talents.

 

No beginning, either, if your political commentary is anything to go by... lol

 

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4 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

By definition. 

 

See, it wasn’t that difficult after all. 

By definition?  I think you are now at eleven on the arrogance-o-meter.

 

The conservatives are the party of aspiration and now the natural home for the working class. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, murphy said:

Maybe, but it is tricky to keep multiple convos on the go at the same time.  It was coming quicker than I could reply this morning but it was quite enjoyable.

 

To say they were doing it for entertainment is wrong and you know it.  There was some pretty pissed off po faced people this morning.

 

The one thing I will take from it is that these self proclaimed 'compassionate human beings' really know how to tolerate a different point of view to their own and engage in a pleasant way.  

 

Well, I can’t speak for others but you’ve entertained me. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, murphy said:

 

The conservatives are the party of aspiration and now the natural home for the working class. 

 

 

 

:crylaugh:

 

Enough already, this isn’t the joke thread. 

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4 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Well, I can’t speak for others but you’ve entertained me. 

 

 

Glad to be of service.   

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lol 'compassionate' got you right in the feels

 

maximum-over-rustle-jimmies-shaking-1353

Edited by lifted*fox

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43 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Well, I can’t speak for others but you’ve entertained me. 

 

 

Certainly the whole thing's been a great advert for the importance of education.

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Ominous assessment by Katya Adler (BBC Europe Editor): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44816048

 

Pretty much what instinct is telling me, too. Maybe I'm wrong but I think the EU is bound to demand further major concessions. I cannot see the EU accepting May's "facilitated customs agreement" or allowing the UK free movement of goods with no free movement of people or services.

 

What possible scenarios does that produce by October?

- May makes major concessions, negotiates an ultra-Soft Brexit "in name only" and gets it through Parliament with votes of Tory Remainers & Labour Moderates (opposed by Tory Brexiteers & possibly Labour leadership)? This leaves massive anger & disillusionment against govt among Brexit voters, Tory party bitterly divided (both MPs and party membership), and possibly Labour bitterly divided at Westminster, though not so much at grassroots. Toxic atmosphere, early election likely.

- May makes major concessions, but fails to get her negotiated deal through parliament.....Sent back humiliated to renegotiate? Overthrown & replaced by new Tory leader who faces same problems? Pre-Xmas General Election with unpredictable outcome? Change of Govt without an election (e.g. Tory Remainer/Labour Moderate coalition? Corbyn-led coalition?)

- May refuses to make the concessions demanded, returning with No Deal, which will almost certainly be rejected by Parliament....This produces the same possible range of outcomes as the previous scenario: Sent back to renegotiate with clock ticking? New PM facing same problems? Unstable new Govt without an election? Pre-Xmas general election with unpredictable outcome?

 

The scope for decisions to be postponed beyond Oct/Nov is surely very limited, as any final deal on the divorce and transition needs to be debated and ratified by EU nations, European Council & European Parliament as well as UK Parliament? Also, if there's still no deal in Oct/Nov, there will surely start to be major economic/social repercussions - some firms shifting investment abroad, market/currency turbulence, panic at looming prospect of No Deal in March 2019 with no proper plans in place, uncertainty over position of EU citizens in UK & UK citizens in EU, probable increase in unemployment, possible outflow of EU workers causing skills shortages in some sectors, growing social tension including cases of racial violence, low-level conflict in N. Ireland (I wonder if the prevailing uncertainty has fed into the recent outbreak of violence over there)?

 

I've ignored the scenario of the EU compromising and accepting something close to what May has proposed - but I really think that's one of the most unlikely scenarios. Given Euroscepticism in other EU nations, the EU would be creating too many immediate and future problems for itself if it made major concessions (which May's proposals still require) and, as Katya Adler points out, "The EU still believes it holds pretty much all the cards in Brexit negotiations. I don't expect real whiffs of EU concessions before the last minute of the 11th hour this autumn"....and with the clock ticking towards March 2019 and the negative impact set to be much greater for the UK than the EU, that analysis sounds right.

 

Hold on tight as the next 3-4 months could be a bumpy ride......then, depending on the outcome, the real chaos could begin. :blink:

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4 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

Ominous assessment by Katya Adler (BBC Europe Editor): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44816048

 

Pretty much what instinct is telling me, too. Maybe I'm wrong but I think the EU is bound to demand further major concessions. I cannot see the EU accepting May's "facilitated customs agreement" or allowing the UK free movement of goods with no free movement of people or services.

 

What possible scenarios does that produce by October?

- May makes major concessions, negotiates an ultra-Soft Brexit "in name only" and gets it through Parliament with votes of Tory Remainers & Labour Moderates (opposed by Tory Brexiteers & possibly Labour leadership)? This leaves massive anger & disillusionment against govt among Brexit voters, Tory party bitterly divided (both MPs and party membership), and possibly Labour bitterly divided at Westminster, though not so much at grassroots. Toxic atmosphere, early election likely.

- May makes major concessions, but fails to get her negotiated deal through parliament.....Sent back humiliated to renegotiate? Overthrown & replaced by new Tory leader who faces same problems? Pre-Xmas General Election with unpredictable outcome? Change of Govt without an election (e.g. Tory Remainer/Labour Moderate coalition? Corbyn-led coalition?)

- May refuses to make the concessions demanded, returning with No Deal, which will almost certainly be rejected by Parliament....This produces the same possible range of outcomes as the previous scenario: Sent back to renegotiate with clock ticking? New PM facing same problems? Unstable new Govt without an election? Pre-Xmas general election with unpredictable outcome?

 

The scope for decisions to be postponed beyond Oct/Nov is surely very limited, as any final deal on the divorce and transition needs to be debated and ratified by EU nations, European Council & European Parliament as well as UK Parliament? Also, if there's still no deal in Oct/Nov, there will surely start to be major economic/social repercussions - some firms shifting investment abroad, market/currency turbulence, panic at looming prospect of No Deal in March 2019 with no proper plans in place, uncertainty over position of EU citizens in UK & UK citizens in EU, probable increase in unemployment, possible outflow of EU workers causing skills shortages in some sectors, growing social tension including cases of racial violence, low-level conflict in N. Ireland (I wonder if the prevailing uncertainty has fed into the recent outbreak of violence over there)?

 

I've ignored the scenario of the EU compromising and accepting something close to what May has proposed - but I really think that's one of the most unlikely scenarios. Given Euroscepticism in other EU nations, the EU would be creating too many immediate and future problems for itself if it made major concessions (which May's proposals still require) and, as Katya Adler points out, "The EU still believes it holds pretty much all the cards in Brexit negotiations. I don't expect real whiffs of EU concessions before the last minute of the 11th hour this autumn"....and with the clock ticking towards March 2019 and the negative impact set to be much greater for the UK than the EU, that analysis sounds right.

 

Hold on tight as the next 3-4 months could be a bumpy ride......then, depending on the outcome, the real chaos could begin. :blink:

If we get beyond October with no deal looming it will be in interesting (in a very bad way) to see what business does and how out affects public opinion. 

Edited by Guest

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15 hours ago, MattP said:

Little interesting fact that passed a few by this week....after the resignation of Boris Johnson this is now the first ever Conservative government without an old Etonian in the cabinet.

Sounds like progress.

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8 hours ago, lifted*fox said:

lol 'compassionate' got you right in the feels

 

 

Yeah, compassionate human beings.lol

 

Good one!  Hilarious!

 

Precious little evidence of it but if it makes you feel good about yourself...

 

Add that one to the great lies and delusions of the left (a thread all in itself) - 'progressive politics', 'political correctness' and now 'compassionate human beings'.

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, NorthfieldsFox said:

Disgusting how President Trump has been treated on this visit 

 

we may not agree with some of his views and behaviours but all those soap dodging lefties out on the streets of london is an embarrassment to this country ! 

 

Where were all those people when Theresa May was destroying the NHS , deporting the Windrush generation etc... 

 

we will need trump and America after March 2019 ! 

 

Appaling behaviour 

 

3 minutes ago, murphy said:

 

Yeah, compassionate human beings.lol

 

Good one!  Hilarious!

 

Precious little evidence of it but if it makes you feel good about yourself...

 

Add that one to the great lies and delusions of the left (a thread all in itself) - 'progressive politics', 'political correctness' and now 'compassionate human beings'.

 

 

 

 

I think it's time you two were introduced.

 

Truly a match made in heaven.

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2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

All got a bit tasty last night, didn't it? Hopefully it was just a few jars making fools of people.

 

 

I've been told I've got to stop letting people off with abusive posts. We're all going to have improve our manners from now on.

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3 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

 

I think it's time you two were introduced.

 

Truly a match made in heaven.

Get a bar of soap buce 

 

:) 

Edited by NorthfieldsFox

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Just now, Webbo said:

I've been told I've got to stop letting people off with abusive posts. We're all going to have improve our manners from now on.

About time !!!! 

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if you attack the incompetence in delivery of the right rather than their warped worldview you always win. I’m still waiting for the private sector to do anything for humanity better than give us a choice of breakfast cereal in the morning.

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9 hours ago, murphy said:

By definition?  I think you are now at eleven on the arrogance-o-meter.

 

The conservatives are the party of aspiration and now the natural home for the working class. 

 

 

Wow 

 

Somone on here that washes regularly and is not a ???

 

good man murph 

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3 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I've been told I've got to stop letting people off with abusive posts. We're all going to have improve our manners from now on.

 

2 minutes ago, NorthfieldsFox said:

About time !!!! 

 

3 minutes ago, NorthfieldsFox said:

Get a bar of soap buce 

 

Gaelic Fox - The gift that keeps giving. lol

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5 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I've been told I've got to stop letting people off with abusive posts. We're all going to have improve our manners from now on.

@lifted*fox is the worst he needs to learn to articulate his own politics before attacking others imo

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3 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

@lifted*fox is the worst he needs to learn to articulate his own politics before attacking others imo

**** ******* Tory *****

 

Love **** Hate *******May bitch slag ******* hope you die a painful death ****

 

**** **** **** ****

 

Legalise it peace and love *****

  • Haha 2

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10 minutes ago, MattP said:

 

I'll answer you, Izzy. With just a few tweeks to @Buce post.

 

In my opinion there are three main types of Labour voter.

 

1) The Labour Establishment/Academia: mostly highly educated and rich; it is for these elites that the cause exists, mainly London based, bookcases full of Marx etc and political leanings often to the hard left, basically they live a whole life based on "do as i say, not as I do" and have a firm belief in their superiority over the lower classes and believe all decisions should be taken by them. Examples are people like Seumas Milne, Andrew Adonis and Emily Thornberry.

 

2) Natural Labour voters: professionals, high level public sector workers who are economic ‘winners’ and are better off under a Labour government but able to disguise it as a virtuous vote. More centrist than the elites but less wealthy. Not as bigoted in their hatred of the working class in the old-fashioned sense of ‘I wouldn’t want my daughter to marry one’. If the party does win power these are the people most would want running the show. Examples are people like Kier Starmer, Alan Johnson and Chukka Umanna.

 

3) The Stupid Labour voters: lower class, poor, uneducated, nationalistic, racist people who are easily manipulated by Labour politicians into blaming all the shit in their lives on to anybody else but themselves - the rich, bankers, Thatcher et al. These are the voters who actually keep Labour a viable political force whilst taking no real interest in politics, while the reality is they are always better off under a job creating low-tax right leaning government. There are no real examples of them in parliament as 1 and 2 keep them away. These are people who when asked why they vote Labour will respond with "my dad did" "working man" or something about "Tory bastards" - some secretly like Thatcher because she enabled then to become a homeowner though this can never be admitted.

 

Pretty accurate, to be fair.

 

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