Guest MattP Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 55 minutes ago, toddybad said: The scheme would have seen scores of families lose their homes. Explain to me how council houses were built first time around? The government can borrow the money for development more cheaply than any private investor. If the government/council owns social housing then it has an appreciating asset worth more than it cost to build from the moment it is completed. By renting out the housing the council retains the asset as well as deriving an income. In order to fund further building you can keep right to buy but change the rules so councils use the revenue to fund further building. The scheme self funds. Evidence for the first line? I'll ask again as well, Are you now telling me Labour (or your yourself would) is commit to building every single project in the country without any private funding? You are also making assumptions on borrowing, you have no idea what the government will be able to sell bonds at in the events of a Labour government dedicated to what it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 51 minutes ago, Buce said: I'm sure I'll incur someone's wrath for daring to be critical of my own country but littering is ingrained in the British psyche, and the prospect of getting a couple of pence back for the bottle will have no effect on that. Making the deposit meaningful (say, a quid) is the only way it would have any effect. That's not being critical of your country, I'd say that's the opposite, not wanted to see your country littered is loving and respecting it. You are right as well, far too many people here do seem to see it as acceptable. I'd happily go Singapore style on people who litter the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 51 minutes ago, Buce said: I'm sure I'll incur someone's wrath for daring to be critical of my own country but littering is ingrained in the British psyche, and the prospect of getting a couple of pence back for the bottle will have no effect on that. Making the deposit meaningful (say, a quid) is the only way it would have any effect. I remember when we were on holiday as kids we'd go around looking for empty bottles with a deposit on them so we could take them and get a bit of sweet money. As long as the deposit is there it gives people an incentive to pick the rubbish up, even if it wasn't their rubbish in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 58 minutes ago, Buce said: I'm sure I'll incur someone's wrath for daring to be critical of my own country but littering is ingrained in the British psyche, and the prospect of getting a couple of pence back for the bottle will have no effect on that. Making the deposit meaningful (say, a quid) is the only way it would have any effect. I thought the exact same thing over the 5p charge for a plastic bag, tbf, it's had fantastic results. Admittedly it's not got entirely rid of the waste, but it's a large step in the right direction. Maybe a charge on bottles would provide similar results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 2 minutes ago, Webbo said: I remember when we were on holiday as kids we'd go around looking for empty bottles with a deposit on them so we could take them and get a bit of sweet money. As long as the deposit is there it gives people an incentive to pick the rubbish up, even if it wasn't their rubbish in the first place. I remember it too, Webbo. However, in this day and age a few pence per bottle isn't enough incentive, imo - it needs to be more. Also, I'd rather see a scheme where the deposit is sufficient to deter the litterer from littering in the first place rather than having others acting after the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 2 minutes ago, Innovindil said: I thought the exact same thing over the 5p charge for a plastic bag, tbf, it's had fantastic results. Admittedly it's not got entirely rid of the waste, but it's a large step in the right direction. Maybe a charge on bottles would provide similar results. Tbh, I'm not sure that it's the 5p charge that is solely responsible. I think the fact that bags are not readily available (at least where I shop - one has to proactively seek one out) is possibly a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 9 minutes ago, Webbo said: I remember when we were on holiday as kids we'd go around looking for empty bottles with a deposit on them so we could take them and get a bit of sweet money. I bet you had to walk up a hill to buy some bread and had real butta for tea ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 Just now, Countryfox said: I bet you had to walk up a hill to buy some bread and had real butta for tea ... Ee, ah dad were a great baker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgfualol Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 1 hour ago, Buce said: I'm sure I'll incur someone's wrath for daring to be critical of my own country but littering is ingrained in the British psyche, and the prospect of getting a couple of pence back for the bottle will have no effect on that. Making the deposit meaningful (say, a quid) is the only way it would have any effect. In Germany its between 15-25 cent when you buy a bottle or can. It's not much but it works. This sounds weird to say but it also helps those living on the streets to gather a bit of money. No idea why the UK dont have them anymore. But yeah I dont think many people give a fvck. When I was in Leicester over Xmas the amount of rubbish and fly tipped stuff I saw was crazy. Why is everyone too lazy to just use a bin or a tip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 3 minutes ago, lgfualol said: In Germany its between 15-25 cent when you buy a bottle or can. It's not much but it works. This sounds weird to say but it also helps those living on the streets to gather a bit of money. No idea why the UK dont have them anymore. But yeah I dont think many people give a fvck. When I was in Leicester over Xmas the amount of rubbish and fly tipped stuff I saw was crazy. Why is everyone too lazy to just use a bin or a tip. I don't think it is laziness. I think it is symptomatic of people's lack of respect for the environment, other people, and society in general. Take Bradgate Park: you will find litter all over it - the culprits weren't too lazy to carry a full Coke bottle up Old John, it was just too inconvenient for them to carry the empty bottle down again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 1 hour ago, MattP said: Evidence for the first line? I'll ask again as well, Are you now telling me Labour (or your yourself would) is commit to building every single project in the country without any private funding? You are also making assumptions on borrowing, you have no idea what the government will be able to sell bonds at in the events of a Labour government dedicated to what it is now. 1.Evidence is that estates are being cleared but only 40% of the new housing will be 'affordable' (and affordable housing is itself no longer affordable in most cases). 2.Wouldn't you be better off finding out what Labour party policy is instead of asking me? It may surprise you to learn that I'm not their official spokesperson. I can only give you an opinion. 3.Bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 Just now, Buce said: I don't think it is laziness. I think it is symptomatic of people's lack of respect for the environment, other people, and society in general. Take Bradgate Park: you will find litter all over it - the culprits weren't too lazy to carry a full Coke bottle up Old John, it was just too inconvenient for them to carry the empty bottle down again. One of my real pet hates too Bucey ... fookin litter everywhere in the countryside ... and my favourite, when you are driving along and the car in front ejects a pile of McDonalds waste out the window. I've often thought that prisoners should be used to clear this up, not that community service nonsense but proper chain gangs ... and if anyone tries to escape the guy on the horse with the mirrored shades can shoot them ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 1 hour ago, Rogstanley said: You haven't posted any details of an actual flight over summer whereas both myself and Barry did and we both found it to be cheaper. You've basically just made up a number. Typical Tory. I've posted a flight with full details cheaper than you could find in the summer, by some margin. You then made up some shit about direct flights, so i beat that. Then you claimed it was unfair because my flights were on a wednesday. The onus isnt on me to find cheaper in the summer ive told you i can't because they dont exist. If you can find them by all means, prove it. I bet you can't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Strokes said: I've posted a flight with full details cheaper than you could find in the summer, by some margin. You then made up some shit about direct flights, so i beat that. Then you claimed it was unfair because my flights were on a wednesday. The onus isnt on me to find cheaper in the summer ive told you i can't because they dont exist. If you can find them by all means, prove it. I bet you can't. You have not found a comparable flight that is cheaper at Christmas than in the summer. Your cheap "christmas" flight left on a wednesday in mid December lol. Do you not know when Christmas school holiday starts? Saturday 22nd December is the date you're looking for - the exact date I used in every comparison. Edited 24 January 2018 by Rogstanley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 Is the flight comparison argument the most meaningless red herring ever? Discuss. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 10 minutes ago, Buce said: Is the flight comparison argument the most meaningless red herring ever? Discuss. I think it's fundamental because if it's not true that flights to India are cheaper at Christmas (which it isn't, by a long way), then that calls into question the reason by which Webbo bases some of his views regarding immigration and so on. If it can be proved that the basis of that opinion is invalid, and if (this is a big if) Webbo accepts it as such and changes his mind accordingly then we could have on our hands the first example in history of Webbo changing his mind on anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 2 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: I think it's fundamental because if it's not true that flights to India are cheaper at Christmas (which it isn't, by a long way), then that calls into question the reason by which Webbo bases some of his views regarding immigration and so on. If it can be proved that the basis of that opinion is invalid, and if (this is a big if) Webbo accepts it as such and changes his mind accordingly then we could have on our hands the first example in history of Webbo changing his mind on anything. Whether they're are cheaper or not,which you have been proven wrong on consistently, is irrelevant. Indian worker are allowed to have time of at Christmas to visit India, other staff aren't allowed time off over Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 21 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: You have not found a comparable flight that is cheaper at Christmas than in the summer. Your cheap "christmas" flight left on a wednesday in mid December lol. Do you not know when Christmas school holiday starts? Saturday 22nd December is the date you're looking for - the exact date I used in every comparison. I said over the school holidays, mine covers that. You can’t beat it, can you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 Pigeons are incredibly complex and intelligent animals. They are one of only a small number of species to pass the ‘mirror test’ – a test of self recognition. They can also recognise each letter of the human alphabet, differentiate between photographs, and even distinguish different humans within a photograph. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 1 minute ago, Carl the Llama said: Pigeons are incredibly complex and intelligent animals. They are one of only a small number of species to pass the ‘mirror test’ – a test of self recognition. They can also recognise each letter of the human alphabet, differentiate between photographs, and even distinguish different humans within a photograph. Blimey. That makes them more evolved than the average Foxestalker. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 26 minutes ago, Strokes said: I said over the school holidays, mine covers that. You can’t beat it, can you? Your Christmas flight was on weds 19th December - outside the school holidays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 27 minutes ago, Strokes said: I said over the school holidays, mine covers that. You can’t beat it, can you? Your Christmas flight was on weds 19th December - outside the school holidays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 Just now, Rogstanley said: Your Christmas flight was on weds 19th December - outside the school holidays No it isn’t, my kids break up before then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 24 January 2018 Share Posted 24 January 2018 28 minutes ago, Webbo said: Whether they're are cheaper or not,which you have been proven wrong on consistently, is irrelevant. Indian worker are allowed to have time of at Christmas to visit India, other staff aren't allowed time off over Christmas. It's not an official policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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