Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[Rogstanley]

2 minutes ago, Strokes said:

No it isn’t, my kids break up before then.

That's unusual. Most finish on the 21st.

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, Rogstanley said:

That's unusual. Most finish on the 21st.

Leicester often has different holiday times to other counties. My kids seem inline with most local villages.

[Webbo]

9 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

It's not an official policy.

What's not an official policy?

[DJ Barry Hammond]

3 hours ago, MattP said:

Quite incredible. You wonder what else these people will try and effect as a central body, how anyone can still try to claim this is a political party than will help the poorest is unbelievable when they do things like this.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42795708

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/labours-ruling-nec-votes-to-halt-haringey-council-hdv-scheme_uk_5a67625be4b0e5630073f84d

 

 

 

 

I found the two different articles interesting.

 

The BBC one centres firmly on the internal Labour Party ‘disagrement’ and in a journalist’s style has amplified things to make it seem a lot more interesting than it probably is.

 

Yet the Huffington Post article goes into much more detail and provides a better balance - by explaining some of the controversies behind the proposed scheme and the positions of some of those of the labour councillors who won’t be standing further down the line.

 

If we also consider the ‘motion’ simply asks for a pause if agreement through mediation can’t be reached - that’s not wholly unreasonable on the face of it. 

 

And so... i’m left wondering, what exactly is the fuss all about? 

[Rogstanley]

3 minutes ago, Webbo said:

What's not an official policy?

To allow Indians to have Christmas off but not white people. It's not an official asda policy and sounds illogical. The reason given for it existing- it being cheaper to go to India over Christmas - is untrue as it's almost 50% cheaper to go in January and still cheaper to go in summer. I've got family who work in supermarkets including asda who for sure would have mentioned it had it been true in their stores, but they've not. At most it seems likely this is an isolated incident where the Indians have successfully tricked management.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Buce said:

 

I remember it too, Webbo.

 

However, in this day and age a few pence per bottle isn't enough incentive, imo - it needs to be more. Also, I'd rather see a scheme where the deposit is sufficient to deter the litterer from littering in the first place rather than having others acting after the event.

Perhaps a scheme where 25p let bottle/can is added to the price of bottled/canned drinks but you get the money back if taken to recycle. Any profit made by the scheme goes to the NHS or something (on the basis lots of drinks are bad for you)?

[Webbo]

3 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

To allow Indians to have Christmas off but not white people. It's not an official asda policy and sounds illogical. The reason given for it existing- it being cheaper to go to India over Christmas - is untrue as it's almost 50% cheaper to go in January and still cheaper to go in summer. I've got family who work in supermarkets including asda who for sure would have mentioned it had it been true in their stores, but they've not. At most it seems likely this is an isolated incident where the Indians have successfully tricked management.

It's official policy that nobody has time off, but the rules don't apply to everyone, it happens every year. Your family probably hasn't mentioned it because they know you'll be straight on your computer trying to prove them wrong and they find it as tedious as I do.

 

 

[Buce]

1 minute ago, toddybad said:

Perhaps a scheme where 25p let bottle/can is added to the price of bottled/canned drinks but you get the money back if taken to recycle. Any profit made by the scheme goes to the NHS or something (on the basis lots of drinks are bad for you)?

 

This leads me into another gripe.

 

Why isn't tobacco tax and alcohol tax ring-fenced for the NHS, instead of going to the treasury?

 

 

 

[Guest]

Just now, Buce said:

 

This leads me into another gripe.

 

Why isn't tobacco tax and alcohol tax ring-fenced for the NHS, instead of going to the treasury?

 

 

 

Tax doesn't actually go anywhere. It all just disappears into the ether. But I know only I'm interested in things like that. Why not just fund the NHS properly instead of having a party full of privatisers trying to make it look unworkable?

[Kopfkino]

An absolute stinker for Mrs May at PMQs today. Why is the prime minister of the UK revelling in the fact the NHS in Wales is even more shit than the NHS in England is just because someone else runs it? It's her duty to serve the people of Wales as well ifs, not use them as a political weapon.

[Buce]

1 minute ago, toddybad said:

Tax doesn't actually go anywhere. It all just disappears into the ether. But I know only I'm interested in things like that. Why not just fund the NHS properly instead of having a party full of privatisers trying to make it look unworkable?

 

That makes no sense to me, but I'm sure someone will be along to argue about it as soon as the flights to India issue is sorted.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

An absolute stinker for Mrs May at PMQs today. Why is the prime minister of the UK revelling in the fact the NHS in Wales is even more shit than the NHS in England is just because someone else runs it? It's her duty to serve the people of Wales as well ifs, not use them as a political weapon.

The Welsh can only spend the money they're given. They haven't been given enough, like everywhere else. She's in a parallel universe.

[SMX11]

12 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Tax doesn't actually go anywhere. It all just disappears into the ether. But I know only I'm interested in things like that. Why not just fund the NHS properly instead of having a party full of privatisers trying to make it look unworkable?

Because it ranks near the bottom in terms of efficiency?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, SMX11 said:

Because it ranks near the bottom in terms of efficiency?

Nonsense.

 

2011

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2011/aug/07/nhs-among-most-efficient-health-services&ved=2ahUKEwirwJHu0PDYAhUBbFAKHZMNDNcQFjAAegQIExAB&usg=AOvVaw0p-xLrqs0FvxIUT6aEcJgH&ampcf=1

 

2010

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10375877&ved=2ahUKEwirwJHu0PDYAhUBbFAKHZMNDNcQFjACegQIERAB&usg=AOvVaw0y_0LQVCHQSTBT4xqdQfoA

 

2017

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.newscientist.com/article/2140698-us-ranked-worst-healthcare-system-while-the-nhs-is-the-best/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwi8zoaZ0fDYAhUBPVAKHfnFA5gQFjADegQIEBAB&usg=AOvVaw3hht1oOIa83dugg-rEhKgP&ampcf=1

 

2014

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/uks-healthcare-ranked-the-best-out-of-11-western-countries-with-us-coming-last-9542833.html&ved=2ahUKEwirwJHu0PDYAhUBbFAKHZMNDNcQFjAEegQIDBAB&usg=AOvVaw2isejO7OCehFy7A0YQ0UtY

 

Etc etc

[Rogstanley]

27 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

An absolute stinker for Mrs May at PMQs today. Why is the prime minister of the UK revelling in the fact the NHS in Wales is even more shit than the NHS in England is just because someone else runs it? It's her duty to serve the people of Wales as well ifs, not use them as a political weapon.

Quite right. But I've never been in any doubt that Tess doesn't care for the fact she is supposed to be running the country in the best interests of the people. She's a career parasite who bought her way into power using tax payer money.

[Guest MattP]

2 hours ago, toddybad said:

1.Evidence is that estates are being cleared but only 40% of the new housing will be 'affordable' (and affordable housing is itself no longer affordable in most cases).

 

2.Wouldn't you be better off finding out what Labour party policy is instead of asking me? It may surprise you to learn that I'm not their official spokesperson. I can only give you an opinion.

 

3.Bless.

1 - When I said evidence I was hoping for something from a reputable source.

 

2 - Hence why I said "or yours" i.e meaning your opinion.

 

3 - I'll take as in all reality you know it won't be.

 

35 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

An absolute stinker for Mrs May at PMQs today. Why is the prime minister of the UK revelling in the fact the NHS in Wales is even more shit than the NHS in England is just because someone else runs it? It's her duty to serve the people of Wales as well ifs, not use them as a political weapon.

She was utterly dreadful, it's the only go to line now for an NHS question, she should be thankful there is an idiot who can't think on his feet across the other side opposing her, anyone decent would make her look ridiculous week after week.

 

Watching this makes you realise just how good the Blair/Hague battles were, both were absolutely brilliant at the box.

[Guest MattP]

58 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

I found the two different articles interesting.

 

The BBC one centres firmly on the internal Labour Party ‘disagrement’ and in a journalist’s style has amplified things to make it seem a lot more interesting than it probably is.

 

Yet the Huffington Post article goes into much more detail and provides a better balance - by explaining some of the controversies behind the proposed scheme and the positions of some of those of the labour councillors who won’t be standing further down the line.

 

If we also consider the ‘motion’ simply asks for a pause if agreement through mediation can’t be reached - that’s not wholly unreasonable on the face of it. 

 

And so... i’m left wondering, what exactly is the fuss all about? 

To you or @toddybad

 

Whether you think this is right or wrong do you think it's the job of the National Executive to even get involved in this? The local councillors, elected by the people were set to pass this (not to mention also quite excited about it) and then a body that has nothing to do with the area comes in and calls it off.

 

How can that be right?

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, MattP said:

To you or @toddybad

 

Whether you think this is right or wrong do you think it's the job of the National Executive to even get involved in this? The local councillors, elected by the people were set to pass this (not to mention also quite excited about it) and then a body that has nothing to do with the area comes in and calls it off.

 

How can that be right?

Perhaps it is, perhaps it isn't.

Tbh I'm struggling to get over excited about it.

It's a labour council and 3/4 of labour councillors don't want it.

The party are clearly talking about ending these sort of partnerships.

There are concerns about how these schemes end up for those being moved on.

I suppose councillors should have the final say but then they are elected as labour councillors. Mps don't get free votes and have to tow the party line so why not expect councillors to make decisions in line with the party that was voted for (because whatever the technical angle about voting for individuals, the reality is that people vote for parties).

The only real sticking point is that labour aren't in government so can't offer alternative funding.

What do the people of haringey think about the scheme? It's described as controversial so is it something the people don't actually want?

 

[Buce]

13 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Where I think me and @MattP will agree is that this sort of thing had gone too far. Calls for Phil Neville to be sacked because of a joke on Twitter 4 years ago and now ministers being pushed on just attending an event because other people behaved badly? 

 

May under pressure to sack minister who attended all-male gala

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/24/great-ormond-street-return-presidents-club-donations-harassment-claims?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

 

“If it transpires that the minister did not report his concerns and that he was there on previous occasions, it is absolutely surely obvious that he needs to resign. Our women are too important, our young girls are too important to get this kind of message from our leaders and to think that it’s acceptable.”

 

Seems fair enough to me.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Oh no the Presidents Club has disbanded, what terrible news. Can't even get your cock out in front of a poorly paid student in the midst of dramatically increased awareness of sexual harassment and weird power dynamics these days.

 

I can understand all the fuss being made about what went on. I was actually there, but manning the craft table so didn't see the worst of it

 

 

[Alf Bentley]

13 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

Oh no the Presidents Club has disbanded, what terrible news. Can't even get your cock out in front of a poorly paid student in the midst of dramatically increased awareness of sexual harassment and weird power dynamics these days.

 

I can understand all the fuss being made about what went on. I was actually there, but manning the craft table so didn't see the worst of it

 

 

 

As an expression of surprise, a bloke I worked with used to say: "Well, nail my plonker to a plank!"

 

I feel that he would have fitted in well in this environment, working on the craft table with you.

 

I presume his phrase referred back to a celebrated legal case in which a group of blokes into S&M were convicted of assault, but contested the case as they had all agreed to actions such as, er, nailing one another's plonkers to planks.

I have a nasty feeling that my contributions to this forum are going downmarket from their formerly elevated status...

[Bellend Sebastian]

8 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

As an expression of surprise, a bloke I worked with used to say: "Well, nail my plonker to a plank!"

 

I feel that he would have fitted in well in this environment, working on the craft table with you.

 

I presume his phrase referred back to a celebrated legal case in which a group of blokes into S&M were convicted of assault, but contested the case as they had all agreed to actions such as, er, nailing one another's plonkers to planks.

I have a nasty feeling that my contributions to this forum are going downmarket from their formerly elevated status...

It was a lot more wholesome than that. Vernon Kaye made a "jellyfish" out of a paper plate and Philip Green did a potato print picture of Rod Liddle that did look a lot like him in fairness.

 

I was very proud of them both

Edited 24 January 2018 by Bellend Sebastian

[Bryn]

6 hours ago, SMX11 said:

Because it ranks near the bottom in terms of efficiency?

 

No it doesn't.

[Strokes]

6 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Turns out big business won't leave if you increase tax

 

Google CEO: we're happy to pay more tax

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jan/24/google-ceo-were-happy-to-pay-more-tax?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

Ah google, the tax spokesman for all worldwide businesses. 

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Ah google, the tax spokesman for all worldwide businesses. 

Precisely