Do we need/want a whole new regime?

[Ric Flair]

So as we prepare for a new tenureship under Claude Puel it's got me considering what needs to happen for this regime to be a successful one? What needs to happen for Puel to be here for at least the duration of his likely 3 year contract? We all seem to yearn for a new dynasty to be built but are we prepared for what that entails and the dismantling of the most successful team and system of our history?

 

Can Puel really come in and make sweeping changes and be a success? I'm not so sure he'll be afforded the time to do that, he simply has to hit the ground running like Ranieri managed to do. Nigel Pearson built this club up because we were at our lowest ebb and were not in the spotlight that we are in now, it took him two bites at the cherry but it's no doubt he was afforded the time, money and environment to build the main foundations for what has led to this last few years of footballing utopia.

 

However, I think it's fair to say some of our senior players are massively influential on what happens at our club and this can be highlighted by the players meeting that took place prior to the great escape, the way Ranieri left them to it during the title winning season and allowed them to only train two days a week, the players demanding they stick with 4-4-2 during last seasons poor run, them instantly becoming as effective and devastating as the title winning season when Ranieri left and now instantly looking much more positive now Shakespeare has gone. Are these players so cock sure of how to get the best out of themselves as a team that any other way is unsuccessful due to a resistance whether deliberate or not. If so, how can our new manager change things? Is he to realise the beauty of this squad and the team spirit and togetherness that cannot be bought or taught and try to keep it as simple as possible and pad the team out in the best way possible or does he realise we can never move on whilst this power the players have is maintained, which will mean the likes of Vardy, Schmeichel, Morgan and Mahrez will be disposed of?

 

Puel is renown for having free reign to build the academy at his clubs to be a conveyor belt of talent through to the first team, which is something I think all of our fans would welcome and is the one thing we've been distinctly poor at. The problem I can see is Jon Rudkin still retains all the power and decision making of the academy hence the jobs for the boys culture with Beaglehole and Peake still being in charge since the League One days despite all the money we've invested and the level our first team now plays at. It's another obstacle he needs to tackle in his journey to building something here, he seems to start well at his clubs in France and before he gets to a level he's happy with a rocky period follows, he'll not get that much time here and that's a worry. Can he influence enough change for the long term very quickly because I believe we do need massive change because at some point this title winning squad will be obsolete, so why prolong the inevitable.

 

Thoughts please?

[Guest Col city fan]

You do Ric. You've made that clear approx 100 times!

 

[stevelcfc]

 

[Ric Flair]

40 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

You do Ric. You've made that clear approx 100 times!

 

Hahaha I do indeed but I realise it's nigh on impossible to do so at this level, you're always fire fighting for instant results. That's why it needs to be a club wide change off the field too but our DOF and academy dinosaurs will be untouched.

[Nigel Graham Pearson]

Just a small thing, but I doubt Mahrez is part of the ‘we do things this way round here’ clique. He seems too reserved to be like that, and I don’t think he’ll have any affinity for the ‘hoof it and run like mad’ 442. He’s too good at football for that. 

[filbertstreet]

yes, all hail kim jong nige

[Fox92]

Yes. And it won't be quick.

 

Someone to come in, sort the players out, get rid of some of them, change how we play, make us more solid at the back and ultimately build us up.

[Captain...]

I say  whoever we get, he has to earn the right to rip it up, and before he does he should have time to look at things we have been good at, Sports Science, Scouting, Team Spirit etc and look to work with that.

 

The priority for the rest of this season is getting the squad we have playing to its potential and building on it/trimming it down in January.

 

If in May we have a top 10 finish and a decent cup run or two under the new guy then we can start looking at bigger changes under his leadership. I don't expect too much though, the truth of it is the manager/head coach has less and less control over the direction of the academy and other aspects of the club, with DoFs and the rest behind the scenes running the show.

[davieG]

49 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

However, I think it's fair to say some of our senior players are massively influential on what happens at our club and this can be highlighted by the players meeting that took place prior to the great escape, the way Ranieri left them to it during the title winning season and allowed them to only train two days a week, the players demanding they stick with 4-4-2 during last seasons poor run, them instantly becoming as effective and devastating as the title winning season when Ranieri left and now instantly looking much more positive now Shakespeare has gone. Are these players so cock sure of how to get the best out of themselves as a team that any other way is unsuccessful due to a resistance whether deliberate or not. If so, how can our new manager change things?

I don't really go along with this player power story. Sure they may have some influence but simply don't believe the all the managers we've had would tolerate any more than their views.

I just think they become so comfortable that it now needs something to shock them into action. The change following the sackings of Pearson, Ranieri and Shakespeare especially the media slagging they got can all be put down to their being shocked out of their comfort zone reaction. 

It's the same in many of the games ala Leeds last night. Until Leeds scored they looked like they couldn't be arsed.

 

It's like they're sleep walking through their contracts.

 

As for a new regime I believe that with the signing of Maguire, Iborra, Dragovic and the intended signing of Silva we were already on our way to changing, albeit slowly to a more "football" style rather than the hoof /longball approach.

Having players better on the ball and at passing doesn't mean we have to abandon the counter attack approach. My own view is that we need to be able to play many ways but good passing and control will never go amiss.

[ZeGuy]

8 minutes ago, davieG said:

I don't really go along with this player power story. Sure they may have some influence but simply don't believe the all the managers we've had would tolerate any more than their views.

I just think they become so comfortable that it now needs something to shock them into action. The change following the sackings of Pearson, Ranieri and Shakespeare especially the media slagging they got can all be put down to their being shocked out of their comfort zone reaction. 

It's the same in many of the games ala Leeds last night. Until Leeds scored they looked like they couldn't be arsed.

 

It's like they're sleep walking through their contracts.

 

As for a new regime I believe that with the signing of Maguire, Iborra, Dragovic and the intended signing of Silva we were already on our way to changing, albeit slowly to a more "football" style rather than the hoof /longball approach.

Having players better on the ball and at passing doesn't mean we have to abandon the counter attack approach. My own view is that we need to be able to play many ways but good passing and control will never go amiss.

My thoughts exactly. Also, tactical flexibility is what we're in dire need of.

[davieG]

5 minutes ago, Worthington said:

In a way the title win left a little 'curse' around the club.

The 2016 squad, naturally, became instant heroes to a lot of fans, thereby making them indispensable in the eyes of some.

The trouble is a number of issues has made some of those same players less effective 18 months on .... Whether it be due simply to ageing, injuries,  or just our style being 'worked out' by opposition coaches the 'regular 13-14' of 2016 are only reproducing anything like our 'Champions' form sporadically....(some might say only when it suits the players themselves) !

We've brought in new signings, quite a few of whom obviously don't fit the style of play that brought the title here..

Logic says to evolve the tactics to play to the strengths of at least some of the new boys, make us more of an enigma to opponents rather than the 'one trick pony' that has become so predictable in style.

It's time to evolve and, if that entails not involving the said 'heroes' sobeit. Sentiment is fine but, if it begins to hinder progress then maybe it's not the best thing to cling on to !

I described it as comfort zone but I think I should have said to those title winning players everything is now an anti-climax so it takes more to get them going as they know they are never going to surpass what they've already achieved. So I guess you could argue they all, well those that show these symptoms want to be gradually replaced which is happening with the recent signings.

The pace of the change is the difficult issue because it seems that even Vardy's style tends to dictate the way we play.

[Ric Flair]

18 minutes ago, davieG said:

I described it as comfort zone but I think I should have said to those title winning players everything is now an anti-climax so it takes more to get them going as they know they are never going to surpass what they've already achieved. So I guess you could argue they all, well those that show these symptoms want to be gradually replaced which is happening with the recent signings.

The pace of the change is the difficult issue because it seems that even Vardy's style tends to dictate the way we play.

You're probably nearer to the truth than my player power theory but the majority of these players aren't ever going to experience winning trophies again so they really ought to snap out of this slumber as the only way is down after us.

[Guest Col city fan]

52 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Hahaha I do indeed but I realise it's nigh on impossible to do so at this level, you're always fire fighting for instant results. That's why it needs to be a club wide change off the field too but our DOF and academy dinosaurs will be untouched.

Yeah but it's hardly a poll mate! You've completely loaded it up in one direction with the comments thereafter!

 

[davieG]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

You're probably nearer to the truth than my player power theory but the majority of these players aren't ever going to experience winning trophies again so they really ought to snap out of this slumber as the only way is down after us.

Exactly. I changed my mind a bit from comfort zone to anti climax. Nothing they will do now will eclipse that title win so it takes a mini earthquake to move them. I guess most want moving on if we're going to move on as a club

[Guest foxestalkisfullofidiots]

I read somewhere that the average employment for a manager in the premiership is 2 years now so if anything the regime behind the scenes has to be the most stable part of a club.

[mozartfox]

1 hour ago, Nigel Graham Pearson said:

Just a small thing, but I doubt Mahrez is part of the ‘we do things this way round here’ clique. He seems too reserved to be like that, and I don’t think he’ll have any affinity for the ‘hoof it and run like mad’ 442. He’s too good at football for that. 

‘hoof it and run like mad’ 442 -  Classic description!

[Suzie the Fox]

8 minutes ago, Worthington said:

Probably get slated and sent to Cov for daring to say this but, I'm increasingly of the belief that our obsession of attacking in a way that benefits JV, isn't always beneficial to our overall play! 

It definitely hasn’t been lately. And tbh I’m seeing a different Jamie Vardy this season. Not his usual 110%. I guess it could also be the lack of support he is getting too

[Ric Flair]

47 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

Yeah but it's hardly a poll mate! You've completely loaded it up in one direction with the comments thereafter!

 

Just answer the question man! Yes or no! ?

[Foxxed]

A strong, charamaric leader who can appeal to the emotional forces of the masses and who can force through drastic change regardless of this so-called democracy and this wooly-thinking devoid of action. Vote Rudkin: a strong and powerful leader in a challenging time!

[Captain...]

My colleague's an Arsenal fan but he also knows a lot about football and he talks about us playing Vardyball. He is right we can't keep playing Vardyball forever, this is no criticism of JV, and if we want to then we have been signing the wrong sort of players. We should have been going after Shane Long or Dwight Gayle, we can  and have bought bigger names and better players, but they don't play like Vardy or Shinji.

 

Whoever comes in has to either accept Vardyball or change the whole philosophy, the problem is what do you then do with Vardy?

[davieG]

2 minutes ago, Captain... said:

My colleague's an Arsenal fan but he also knows a lot about football and he talks about us playing Vardyball. He is right we can't keep playing Vardyball forever, this is no criticism of JV, and if we want to then we have been signing the wrong sort of players. We should have been going after Shane Long or Dwight Gayle, we can  and have bought bigger names and better players, but they don't play like Vardy or Shinji.

 

Whoever comes in has to either accept Vardyball or change the whole philosophy, the problem is what do you then do with Vardy?

Maybe Vardy is capable of playing a different style.

[Suzie the Fox]

3 minutes ago, Captain... said:

My colleague's an Arsenal fan but he also knows a lot about football and he talks about us playing Vardyball. He is right we can't keep playing Vardyball forever, this is no criticism of JV, and if we want to then we have been signing the wrong sort of players. We should have been going after Shane Long or Dwight Gayle, we can  and have bought bigger names and better players, but they don't play like Vardy or Shinji.

 

Whoever comes in has to either accept Vardyball or change the whole philosophy, the problem is what do you then do with Vardy?

Because most Arsenal fans know **** all about it  

[TheUltimateWinner]

IMO It's clear Shakey, Ranieri, Pearson et al had too many loyalties to players who are due for replacement.

 

What excites me about Puel is he gives youth a chance. This could finally be the season that Gray, Chilwell etc. break through to the starting eleven.

[sdb]

Anyone who can bring in some youngsters, develop a more footballing style and ideally build a squad more comfortable with varied, fluid tactics is welcome by me. Hope this guy is that, but not certain!

[jayfox26]

We won't be able to make massive changes a quarter of the way through the season, so for me it's a case of seeing this season out and finish as high as possible and look to re build next summer. If we can get anyone in as well as Silva that can make a difference, then great, but most changes won't start to happen till the summer. It could be a disaster to make wholesale changes at this stage of the season. Maybe slowly bring In new things to build on what we are good at (as we aren't as terrible as some make us out to be) and then start to make the big changes, if necessary, in the summer.