Gender neutral / Gender Non-Binary

[Jon the Hat]

People should be themselves.  Personally I look forward to a time when this isn’t a matter for discussion.

[Bellend Sebastian]

You wouldn't have had Kenny Thomas going on about this.

 

Mainly because apparently he's now a qualified acupuncturist and that's his passion, and fills most of his time

 

[Benguin]

Once some civil liberty is gained another will be pursued until nothing, irregardless of impact on other things, will be out of the question.

 

Is it wrong though? That's subjective but in my opinion as long as myself or others aren't forced to modify our behaviour I don't care. That said you won't catch me calling a man a woman outside the scope of humour. 

[Milo]

1 hour ago, Fox92 said:

What is intersex?

I'm quite intersex

 

Don't think that contributes much to this thread, though.

 

I think like many things some people initiate change and others follow because its fashionable. If its genuinely how you feel, then respect. If its following a fad and you'll feel different next week, then do one.

 

As an aside, my understanding of gender neutral isn't, as stated in posts above, that of someone who is gender confused/trans/hermaphrodite/gender fluid, though. Might be wrong.

[Guest FriendlyRam]

I dont like into discusiions like this not nowadays anyway. It just starts up too many arguments, ive seen people fall out, life long friendships ended because they disagreed on stuff like this,, politics I can just about share my thoughts and leave it if the person disagrees,, but this sort of thing sends me over the edge and I find myself struggling to hold it together when an argument starts.

 

A bit like the whos bigger out of Leicester and the mighty Rams really.... but we know who is da bigger club ;). *scurries out quickly*

[bovril]

Forget the debate, I want to hear more about MattP's Fisher Price ironing board.

[leicsmac]

51 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

People should be themselves.  Personally I look forward to a time when this isn’t a matter for discussion.

This. People's identification of themselves affects neither anyone else or society as a whole in a negative fashion for the future...so I don't understand why people make it so much of an issue.

[Jon the Hat]

9 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

This. People's identification of themselves affects neither anyone else or society as a whole in a negative fashion for the future...so I don't understand why people make it so much of an issue.

If anything it is the opposite. People’s inability to be themselves cost society their talents and free thinking.  Feeling oppressed must be debilitating in many respects.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Lord Tebbit slices through the fetid butter of doubt with his mighty reciprocating saw of truth yet again:

 

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/10/24/former-conservative-party-chair-lord-tebbit-claims-air-pollution-is-making-people-transgender/

 

Of COURSE he refers to doing National Service, of COURSE he does

[Guest seanfox778]

I think there's only two sexes but if people want to identify as something else then they can do as they please. Maybe this is the start of a new evolution and in a few 100 years there'll be a new supersex where people have penises, vaginas and all sorts of new "equipment". 

[Trav Le Bleu]

2 hours ago, davieG said:

hermaphrodite

həːˈmafrədʌɪt/

noun

 

1. 1.

   a person or animal having both male and female sex organs or other sexual characteristics, either abnormally or (in the case of some organisms) as the natural condition.

Oh, go screw yourself!

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the nicest possible way, of course. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

35 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

If anything it is the opposite. People’s inability to be themselves cost society their talents and free thinking.  Feeling oppressed must be debilitating in many respects.

Like this you mean?

 

 

[Finnegan]

There's no such thing as gender. 

 

There is biological sex and there is social stereotyping. Even people who identify as gender fluid, agender or gender queer are labelling themselves unnecessarily and completely falling in to a trap they often think they're avoiding. 

 

I'm biologically male but I tend to roll my eyes at anyone that thinks that means either a natural predisposition or a social obligation to act or be a certain way. 

 

I really dislike gender. The whole issue and people's outright ignorance on the subject tend to piss me off enough that I usually avoid the debate after a brief stint on my soapbox. 

 

For something that should be so simple it's remarkably difficult to get people to let go. 

[Finnegan]

The fascination at the moment with child gender reassignment winds me up the most, to be honest. How on Earth can you reassign something that doesn't exist? The abstract re-aligning of something that's abstract to begin with, utterly daft.

 

What people mean is sex reassignment and how can you reassign the sex of someone who isn't sexually mature? How can a child who isn't mature enough to know how they will identify either sexually or socially as an adult pick which hormones they should grow up with? 

 

What makes it more absurd is that it's our strict obsession with gender roles in the first place that's ****ing these kids up more than any accident of nature may or may not be. Maybe less children would be having some sort of existential crisis if we weren't so determined to tell little boys they were supposed to wear shorts and kick balls and little girls are meant to wear dresses and play nurse?

 

If it wasn't particularly abnormal for imaginary child 2017 Matt to want an ironing board because ironing boards weren't gender specific because we all just acknowledged that gender doesn't exist - it's a load of rubbish we made up - then there'd be a lot less kids out there being convinced by EITHER overtly PC liberal do-gooder parents or knuckle-dragging, backwards hicks, that something had to be changed (be it hormones or choice of plaything.)

[The Doctor]

1 hour ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

Lord Tebbit slices through the fetid butter of doubt with his mighty reciprocating saw of truth yet again:

 

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/10/24/former-conservative-party-chair-lord-tebbit-claims-air-pollution-is-making-people-transgender/

 

Of COURSE he refers to doing National Service, of COURSE he does

Solid headline, reminds me of this nutjob:

 

Amazed people still try to play the male or female dichotomy - swear things like kleinefelters syndrome, and as a result intersex people, were covered in secondary school biology when chromosomes were first introduced...

 

[MadKaw]

3 hours ago, Rogstanley said:

Biologically that’s not true, something like 1 in 2000 people are born intersex, so statistically there are a couple of hundred intersex people in Leicester.

 

Psychologically it’s even less straightforward.

 

I don’t like the way gender identity is being forced on kids but grown up blokes can feel like a woman all day long as far as I’m concerned, it’s none of my business, good luck to them.

amen to that...

[Finnaldo]

Not sure why it's that important to be honest.

 

We live in a time where living as whatever you are is accepted (or at least, accepted a lot more than it was). 'Gender fluid' seems like a way of saying a un-masculine male or un-feminine female. I understand why pride in identity is important to non-heterosexuals but it seems to be an over complication of the situation.

[Benguin]

4 hours ago, leicsmac said:

This. People's identification of themselves affects neither anyone else or society as a whole in a negative fashion for the future...so I don't understand why people make it so much of an issue.

 

4 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

If anything it is the opposite. People’s inability to be themselves cost society their talents and free thinking.  Feeling oppressed must be debilitating in many respects.

Utter garbage. There are people who are attracted to children and can't help it and they have to either spend a life of misery relenting from their desires or go to prison and ruin others lives. There are young teenagers who feel responsible and mature enough to drink, drive smoke, vote or countless other things that have an age barrier but unfortunately we have made this "social construct" where age is not just the year you were born.. I swear that in 30 years time there will be a peadophile pride each year.

 

I personally do not see a problem with someone wishing to be another gender on a personal level and would never actively seek to stop it but I fully appreciate the many arguments why this should not become a societal norm and fully disregard this notion of live and let live.

[ozleicester]

Lets assume you are watching City V Palace... the one and only Schluppmeister shoots, and unsurprisingly, the ball goes high and wide barrelling right into your bollocks as you stand in row z.

 

You are rushed to hospital, but, they cant be save and your bits are removed... you now no longer have any genitalia, do you stop being a male?

 

People are not defined by their genitals

 

 

[leicsmac]

3 hours ago, Benguin said:

 

Utter garbage. There are people who are attracted to children and can't help it and they have to either spend a life of misery relenting from their desires or go to prison and ruin others lives. There are young teenagers who feel responsible and mature enough to drink, drive smoke, vote or countless other things that have an age barrier but unfortunately we have made this "social construct" where age is not just the year you were born.. I swear that in 30 years time there will be a peadophile pride each year.

 

I personally do not see a problem with someone wishing to be another gender on a personal level and would never actively seek to stop it but I fully appreciate the many arguments why this should not become a societal norm and fully disregard this notion of live and let live.

Unless there is an issue with lack of clarity on my point regarding people and self determination, then this is an apples and oranges comparison IMO.

 

Unless the implication is that there is a link between trans/gender neutral identification and paedophilia in either a direct or a slippery slope first-this-then-that fashion?

 

I'm curious as to why exactly you think self determination of this particular type would be harmful to society and so are on board with arguments against it (though not seeking to block it yourself).

[Ross-Kemp]

4 hours ago, ozleicester said:

Lets assume you are watching City V Palace... the one and only Schluppmeister shoots, and unsurprisingly, the ball goes high and wide barrelling right into your bollocks as you stand in row z.

 

You are rushed to hospital, but, they cant be save and your bits are removed... you now no longer have any genitalia, do you stop being a male?

 

People are not defined by their genitals

 

 

But they are, aren't they.

 

If you have a penis, you're scientifically a male. That's factual information.

 

If you have a vagina, you're scientifically a female. 

Again, that's factual information. 

 

 

[The Doctor]

4 hours ago, Benguin said:

 

Utter garbage. There are people who are attracted to children and can't help it and they have to either spend a life of misery relenting from their desires or go to prison and ruin others lives. There are young teenagers who feel responsible and mature enough to drink, drive smoke, vote or countless other things that have an age barrier but unfortunately we have made this "social construct" where age is not just the year you were born.. I swear that in 30 years time there will be a peadophile pride each year.

 

I personally do not see a problem with someone wishing to be another gender on a personal level and would never actively seek to stop it but I fully appreciate the many arguments why this should not become a societal norm and fully disregard this notion of live and let live.

Except of course paedophilia does harm other people (the children who are victims of them), if I were to come out tomorrow and say I wanted to be a woman, who does that harm?

 

The "what about paedophiles" argument was nonsense when it was applied to gay people, and it's nonsense now - live and let live as a concept has always been one of do what you like so long as it doesn't harm others: there's not really an argument against it, your life is your business and only your business.

[The Doctor]

9 minutes ago, Ross-Kemp said:

But they are, aren't they.

 

If you have a penis, you're scientifically a male. That's factual information.

 

If you have a vagina, you're scientifically a female. 

Again, that's factual information. 

 

 

Except that's a massive oversimplification (and actually the point oz was making) - saying things like having testicles and a penis makes you male then leads to the question; if you have testicular cancer and have to have an orchiectomy to remove them as treatment, do you cease to be male? 

[Finnegan]

33 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Except that's a massive oversimplification (and actually the point oz was making) - saying things like having testicles and a penis makes you male then leads to the question; if you have testicular cancer and have to have an orchiectomy to remove them as treatment, do you cease to be male? 

 

I think you're well aware that he'd be saying if you're XY you're scientifically male if he realised people were going to be pedantic about the event of losing genitalia. 

[The Doctor]

5 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I think you're well aware that he'd be saying if you're XY you're scientifically male if he realised people were going to be pedantic about the event of losing genitalia. 

Except that then ignores that you can be phenotypically female with an XY karyotype (Swyer syndrome), or phenotypically male with an XX karyotype (De la chapelle syndrome), to say nothing of kleinefelters (XXY - male primary sexual characteristics with some female secondary characteristics), hermaphroditism, and the rest of the intersex conditions. Biological sex is more complicated than cock = bloke, wizards sleeve and you're a woman.