leicsmac Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 1 minute ago, Kopfkino said: Are you suggesting the diplomatic retaliation is disproportionate? I admit I do struggle to agree with your world view most of the time but I normally understand it, this one I don't so please may you explain. No, sorry for my lack of clarity - I think the diplomatic retaliation is fine. I'm just bemoaning the climate that means such a continual cycle of provocation and retaliation happens in the first place. Just seems wildly pointless.
Webbo Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 12 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Absolutely they are, as you said it's employment of a WMD which crosses a line in pretty much every ethical sense. It's idiotic and should be challenged My point is that it is merely the latest in a sequence of events that have taken place that are equally idiotic and done seemingly with little more point than to massage the ego or a person or group of people. Idiotic in what way? Should we just have ignored it?
leicsmac Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 Just now, Webbo said: Idiotic in what way? Should we just have ignored it? See above. I have no issue with the actions of the UK here (not so much, anyway), more with them being part of a larger picture that means they have to happen at all.
Countryfox Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 1 minute ago, leicsmac said: See above. I have no issue with the actions of the UK here (not so much, anyway), more with them being part of a larger picture that means they have to happen at all. Soooo ? ....
Innovindil Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 9 minutes ago, leicsmac said: See above. I have no issue with the actions of the UK here (not so much, anyway), more with them being part of a larger picture that means they have to happen at all. So you're pissed that the world isn't perfect?
leicsmac Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 7 minutes ago, Countryfox said: Soooo ? .... Soooo Russia doing the dirty because of "national security" and the UK having to respond to it is all egotistical shite that is part of something that has been going on for too long and I'm curious as to if there's actually any net benefit to the future from it. 1 minute ago, Innovindil said: So you're pissed that the world isn't perfect? I'm pissed that it's imperfect enough that a significant number of the dominant complex species on it seem to want to do little more than fvck each other over for a percentage.
yorkie1999 Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 23 hours ago, Foxin_mad said: Also in Russia, by all accounts only Russia has the knowledge to make this substance. I understand from reading Western sites hold samples also. Russia maybe the only nation to be able to make this substance, although i doubt that, but reading this article, it turns out anyone could have the stuff https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/how-the-collapse-of-the-soviet-union-could-have-helped-skripals-attackers-60815
Countryfox Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 5 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Soooo Russia doing the dirty because of "national security" and the UK having to respond to it is all egotistical shite that is part of something that has been going on for too long and I'm curious as to if there's actually any net benefit to the future from it. Sorry for sounding thick but what’s your point ... Putin who is a fvckin monster, make no mistake, is doing anything he wants .. and we try and do something about it ... ??
leicsmac Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 3 minutes ago, Countryfox said: Sorry for sounding thick but what’s your point ... Putin who is a fvckin monster, make no mistake, is doing anything he wants .. and we try and do something about it ... ?? Sorry if I'm not being clear about that. My point is that the monsters everywhere, Putin included (driven by personal ego) are running the show because of nationalism, have been for some time, and it's all patently ridiculous, pointless and does nothing for the future. Like I said, if there's actually any net benefit to two or more nations going tit for tat like this then I'd love to hear it.
Webbo Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 12 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said: Russia maybe the only nation to be able to make this substance, although i doubt that, but reading this article, it turns out anyone could have the stuff https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/how-the-collapse-of-the-soviet-union-could-have-helped-skripals-attackers-60815 Well if we can't trust The Moscow Times to tell us the truth about this who can we trust?
leicsmac Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 3 minutes ago, Webbo said: Well if we can't trust The Moscow Times to tell us the truth about this who can we trust? Yeah, it's likely BS. That being said, when the Berlin Wall fell a lot of top Russian military scientific talent ended up going where the big $$$ were - who knows what they came up with with their new wages?
Countryfox Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 2 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Sorry if I'm not being clear about that. My point is that the monsters everywhere, Putin included (driven by personal ego) are running the show because of nationalism, have been for some time, and it's all patently ridiculous, pointless and does nothing for the future. Like I said, if there's actually any net benefit to two or more nations going tit for tat like this then I'd love to hear it. Theres no benefit ... but should we ignore it ? ... Putin s a very bad person who has been totally corrupted by the power he now has ... this monster is personally responsible for people dying as we speak ... saw a young lad bleeding to death in Syria on the news tonight ... like I said ... do we ignore it ?. ...
Webbo Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 1 minute ago, leicsmac said: Yeah, it's likely BS. That being said, when the Berlin Wall fell a lot of top Russian military scientific talent ended up going where the big $$$ were - who knows what they came up with with their new wages? If all anyone wanted was to do was to kill him, why didn't they just shoot him? Surely that would be cheaper and easier. It's a deliberate statement from Putin.
Sharpe's Fox Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 Deescalate by removing sanctions. There are no losers.
lifted*fox Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/15/salisbury-attack-conflict-britain-cold-war well written, calm and intelligent article by Corbyn this evening in the Guardian. exactly what anyone with half a brain has come to expect from the man, tbh. obviously though because he's not jumping to conclusions and reaching for the red button he must be a putin sympathiser. /eyeroll
yorkie1999 Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 Just now, Webbo said: If all anyone wanted was to do was to kill him, why didn't they just shoot him? Surely that would be cheaper and easier. It's a deliberate statement from Putin. Or one of Putin's presidential opponents in a bid to turn the world against Putin.
Webbo Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 Just now, yorkie1999 said: Or one of Putin's presidential opponents in a bid to turn the world against Putin. Putin has his opponents murdered or thrown in jail. Nobody seriously believes he won't win.
leicsmac Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 3 minutes ago, Countryfox said: Theres no benefit ... but should we ignore it ? ... Putin s a very bad person who has been totally corrupted by the power he now has ... this monster is personally responsible for people dying as we speak ... saw a young lad bleeding to death in Syria on the news tonight ... like I said ... do we ignore it ?. ... The UK can't ignore it - not without losing face and/or risking further provocation. Which is the shittiest part of the whole shite situation. It's all ridiculous. 2 minutes ago, Webbo said: If all anyone wanted was to do was to kill him, why didn't they just shoot him? Surely that would be cheaper and easier. It's a deliberate statement from Putin. I'd say that's by far the most likely scenario, yes (given Putins own ego), and that the response should be geared to that assumption - but that doesn't mean other possibilities should be rejected out of hand.
yorkie1999 Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 8 minutes ago, Webbo said: Putin has his opponents murdered or thrown in jail. Nobody seriously believes he won't win. I don't get the message though, what's the difference between shooting an ex spy and poisoning them on foreign soil, it's not as though the authorities would discount Putin being behind it just because he was shot. What kind of message is Putin sending by poisoning someone. "we've got deadly poison and are prepared to use it"
Dr The Singh Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 UK reaps what it sows, it has for the last 40 years actively supported genocide etc in other nations such as the Sikh genocides in the 80's and early 90's so throwing insults at Putin is double standards. UK has manipulated 3rd world nations etc with the innocents of those nations being persecuted, in the guise of foreign aid. This is the real world, does my nation have the balls? The world the thinks we are weak, let's wait and see
Countryfox Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 11 minutes ago, leicsmac said: The UK can't ignore it - not without losing face and/or risking further provocation. Which is the shittiest part of the whole shite situation. It's all ridiculous. It’s not about losing face Mac ..... It’s about doing what’s right ... and we are doing it ... not enough imo ... but we are doing something ! The guy is a CVNT of the first order and has so many deaths on his conscience it’s unbelievable ... he is evil and to do nothing is totally unacceptable and irresponsible... all this talk of was it really him ... we should hold back and not do anything about it I find very depressing ... I’ll leave you all to it ... hope not too many more nnocent people die in Syria ...
yorkie1999 Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 Just now, Dr The Singh said: UK reaps what it sows, it has for the last 40 years actively supported genocide etc in other nations such as the Sikh genocides in the 80's and early 90's so throwing insults at Putin is double standards. UK has manipulated 3rd world nations etc with the innocents of those nations being persecuted, in the guise of foreign aid. This is the real world, does my nation have the balls? The world the thinks we are weak, let's wait and see Yeah, send in the turbanators.
leicsmac Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 Just now, Countryfox said: It’s not about losing face Mac ..... It’s about doing what’s right ... and we are doing it ... not enough imo ... but we are doing something ! The guy is a CVNT of the first order and has so many deaths on his conscience it’s unbelievable ... he is evil and to do nothing is totally unacceptable and irresponsible... all this talk of what is really him ... we should hold back and not do anything about it I find very depressing ... I’ll leave you all to it ... hope not too many more nnocent people die in Syria ... Right and wrong, good and evil, are pretty nebulous concepts when it comes to the way nations act towards each other IMO, but that's just my rather cynical and relativist take. Understand that other folks think differently.
Dr The Singh Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 Just now, yorkie1999 said: Yeah, send in the turbanators. There have been many people that have asked for a Sikh regiment including top army officials, the royals etc, to.some race and equality thing there can't be one, maybe with your great perception and powers, you can make that happen?
yorkie1999 Posted 15 March 2018 Posted 15 March 2018 Just now, Dr The Singh said: There have been many people that have asked for a Sikh regiment including top army officials, the royals etc, to.some race and equality thing there can't be one, maybe with your great perception and powers, you can make that happen? I thought there is a sikh regiment.
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