Salisbury, Skripal, Poison and Russia.

[Vardinio'sCat]

2 hours ago, Dr The Singh said:

That picture was in France, its sad however, these soldiers were gladly with there turbans allowed to service France, but today Sikhs with turbans cannot even attend government schools , public buildings etc.

 

If these soldiers were aware of this, would they have caught?

 

I didn't know that, very sad when you think about it.

 

Of course, would my Irish grandad have signed up for the machine gun corps, got the training with automatic weapons, and fought at Passchendaele, if he knew the Easter rising would have been done and dusted by the time he got back home. 

[katieakita]

8 hours ago, lifted*fox said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/15/salisbury-attack-conflict-britain-cold-war

 

well written, calm and intelligent article by Corbyn this evening in the Guardian. 

 

exactly what anyone with half a brain has come to expect from the man, tbh. 

 

obviously though because he's not jumping to conclusions and reaching for the red button he must be a putin sympathiser. /eyeroll 

 

Only problem here is people won't accept this because

 

1. It is the Guardian

 

2. It is J Corbyn so for some whatever he does is wrong. 

 

Personally had little time for the guy or knew little about him other than what the media stated until the last election. IMVHO after listening to him he came across as not quite the Communist nut case many portray him as and though not agreeing with everything had a far better campaign than TM who had an absolute nightmare. Think the thing which really made me listen was the right wing media hysteria about the use of Nuclear weapons and the spin used against him on this

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

12 hours ago, Countryfox said:

 

Theres no benefit ...   but should we ignore it ? ...    Putin s a very bad person who has been totally corrupted by the power he now has ... this monster is personally responsible for people dying as we speak ...    saw a young lad bleeding to death in Syria on the news tonight ...    like I said ...   do we ignore it ?. ...

You cant be serious

[Buce]

9 hours ago, Erinjack said:

and you go on about somebody else being a keyboard warrior. I'l meet you for a drink.

 

Sure, that sounds like fun.

 

I'll message you.

[Innovindil]

10 hours ago, Erinjack said:

and you go on about somebody else being a keyboard warrior. I'l meet you for a drink.

Just remember to take a chicken drumstick with you so if he turns out to be fookin massive you can scare him off. 

[breadandcheese]

I read Corbyn's article in the Guardian and wasn't impressed at all.  I'm grateful he's not PM.  It once again shows his muddled thinking on foreign policy but at least he's trying to take a different tone as it becomes clear that, with our allies backing us, his original approach looked daft.  Although he writes his article in a qualified tone, there are many glaring problems.

 

Corbyn states "This government’s diplomacy is failing the country. Unqualified support for Donald Trump and rolling out the red carpet for a Saudi despot not only betrays our values, it makes us less safe." 

 

These are precisely the two countries that can apply pressure to Russia.  We, by ourselves, have no leverage at all over Putin.  Having the US backing up our sanctions and actions will make Putin more likely to take note.  Likewise, the Saudis have the ability to turn on the oil taps and over time, reduce oil prices through OPEC.  This is a massive leverage against Putin as it will hit Russian finances in the pockets when they try to fund their state spending.  So, in contrast to Corbyn's natural instincts, we should be offering our friendship to our American and Saudi allies.  It's the only way to unite our allies, which is exactly what Corbyn talks about later in his article.  

 

Corbyn also says "And our capacity to deal with outrages from Russia is compromised by the tidal wave of ill-gotten cash that Russian oligarchs – both allied with and opposed to the Russian government – have laundered through London over the past two decades."

 

I'm not sure why we are compromised by this in relation to the attempted murder with a nerve agent.  The two are separate, so why does Corbyn try to link the two?  That is deliberate obfuscation, diversion and muddying of the waters. 

 

Interestingly, Corbyn says that Labour is of course no supporter of Putin, which is the most I think I've ever heard of him directly criticising Putin's government, but it's hardly criticism is it and doesn't do anything to dispel the idea that he is an apologist for Russian actions.  (No, I'm not suggesting he should be as stupid as Gavin Williamson yesterday with "go away and shut up" line, which was wildly inappropriate and just plain useless)  

 

All in all, reading Corbyn's article, I'm glad he's not in charge of the country.  Yes, Corbyn speaks of remaining measured, which is exactly what the government have done.  Other than the defence secretary making himself look a right prat yesterday, the government have done everything correctly.  The investigation is ongoing, our allies are backing us and we have engaged as we should under the chemical weapons treaties we have signed.  Corbyn is very much behind the curve on this one and you can only imagine what the response would have been had Corbyn been PM.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

40 minutes ago, breadandcheese said:

I read Corbyn's article in the Guardian and wasn't impressed at all.  I'm grateful he's not PM.  It once again shows his muddled thinking on foreign policy but at least he's trying to take a different tone as it becomes clear that, with our allies backing us, his original approach looked daft.  Although he writes his article in a qualified tone, there are many glaring problems.

 

Corbyn states "This government’s diplomacy is failing the country. Unqualified support for Donald Trump and rolling out the red carpet for a Saudi despot not only betrays our values, it makes us less safe." 

 

These are precisely the two countries that can apply pressure to Russia.  We, by ourselves, have no leverage at all over Putin.  Having the US backing up our sanctions and actions will make Putin more likely to take note.  Likewise, the Saudis have the ability to turn on the oil taps and over time, reduce oil prices through OPEC.  This is a massive leverage against Putin as it will hit Russian finances in the pockets when they try to fund their state spending.  So, in contrast to Corbyn's natural instincts, we should be offering our friendship to our American and Saudi allies.  It's the only way to unite our allies, which is exactly what Corbyn talks about later in his article.  

 

Corbyn also says "And our capacity to deal with outrages from Russia is compromised by the tidal wave of ill-gotten cash that Russian oligarchs – both allied with and opposed to the Russian government – have laundered through London over the past two decades."

 

I'm not sure why we are compromised by this in relation to the attempted murder with a nerve agent.  The two are separate, so why does Corbyn try to link the two?  That is deliberate obfuscation, diversion and muddying of the waters. 

 

Interestingly, Corbyn says that Labour is of course no supporter of Putin, which is the most I think I've ever heard of him directly criticising Putin's government, but it's hardly criticism is it and doesn't do anything to dispel the idea that he is an apologist for Russian actions.  (No, I'm not suggesting he should be as stupid as Gavin Williamson yesterday with "go away and shut up" line, which was wildly inappropriate and just plain useless)  

 

All in all, reading Corbyn's article, I'm glad he's not in charge of the country.  Yes, Corbyn speaks of remaining measured, which is exactly what the government have done.  Other than the defence secretary making himself look a right prat yesterday, the government have done everything correctly.  The investigation is ongoing, our allies are backing us and we have engaged as we should under the chemical weapons treaties we have signed.  Corbyn is very much behind the curve on this one and you can only imagine what the response would have been had Corbyn been PM.

http://therealnews.com/t2/story:21371:Corbyn-Calls-for-Evidence-in-Escalating-Poison-Row

[Countryfox]

2 hours ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

You cant be serious

 

About what ?

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

1 minute ago, Countryfox said:

 

About what ?

About us ramping up conflict with Russia due to Putin being a monster and Syria etc....

[Countryfox]

1 minute ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

About us ramping up conflict with Russia due to Putin being a monster and Syria etc....

 

If you read all my posts I said we need to do something for what has happened as, if unchecked, the guy will get worse and keep pushing ..  as his track record shows ...   he has no conscience or morals.   Its nothing to do with 'ramping up'.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

3 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

If you read all my posts I said we need to do something for what has happened as, if unchecked, the guy will get worse and keep pushing ..  as his track record shows ...   he has no conscience or morals.   Its nothing to do with 'ramping up'.

Fair enough.  Once* we know what has happened I suppose we will do something about it

 

Edit.  Before*

[Strokes]

12 hours ago, Buce said:

 

Well done - that must have taken a lot of courage, sweetie. 

 

Now get yourself back to bed before mummy finds out you’ve been playing on the internet again. 

 

11 hours ago, Erinjack said:

and you go on about somebody else being a keyboard warrior. I'l meet you for a drink.

 

2 hours ago, Buce said:

 

Sure, that sounds like fun.

 

I'll message you.

I can’t wait to read an update in the romance thread.

[Carl the Llama]

@breadandcheese Did you think Corbyn was praising Putin the other day when he talked about him and his regime abusing human rights?  Never heard him criticise Putin

[katieakita]

Having seen the headlines of the front page of the Mail I am waiting for the Corbyn abuse for a failure to hold Putin accountable for this Beast from the East, everybody knows it is from Siberia, we all know Siberia is in Russia even the left wing press accept its from Russia yet not once has Corbyn held Putin responsible for this. People trapped in cars, so much inconvenience for millions of ordinary British folk yet that Trotsky Fvcker refuses to blame the culprits 

[Strokes]

10 minutes ago, katieakita said:

Having seen the headlines of the front page of the Mail I am waiting for the Corbyn abuse for a failure to hold Putin accountable for this Beast from the East, everybody knows it is from Siberia, we all know Siberia is in Russia even the left wing press accept its from Russia yet not once has Corbyn held Putin responsible for this. People trapped in cars, so much inconvenience for millions of ordinary British folk yet that Trotsky Fvcker refuses to blame the culprits 

Meh.

[Guest Foxin_mad]

16 minutes ago, katieakita said:

Having seen the headlines of the front page of the Mail I am waiting for the Corbyn abuse for a failure to hold Putin accountable for this Beast from the East, everybody knows it is from Siberia, we all know Siberia is in Russia even the left wing press accept its from Russia yet not once has Corbyn held Putin responsible for this. People trapped in cars, so much inconvenience for millions of ordinary British folk yet that Trotsky Fvcker refuses to blame the culprits 

Perhaps the Guardian/Mirror will blame it on Brexit, Austerity, Cuts on the Met Office or the 'TORY SCUM' 

[breadandcheese]

15 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

@breadandcheese Did you think Corbyn was praising Putin the other day when he talked about him and his regime abusing human rights?  Never heard him criticise Putin

I think the issue is that his criticism of Russia and Putin is always very soft in comparison to his criticism of other countries and our allies.  It is not a new accusation, that he is a sympathiser of anti-Western groups and organisations, but it is something that is a concern. 

[Guest Foxin_mad]

1 minute ago, breadandcheese said:

I think the issue is that his criticism of Russia and Putin is always very soft in comparison to his criticism of other countries and our allies.  It is not a new accusation, that he is a sympathiser of anti-Western groups and organisations, but it is something that is a concern. 

Spot on. He often pedals the same old bollocks rhetoric about human rights, LBGT rights etc. etc. it empty words, he has said them time and time again and will continue to do so.

 

He is a lot more critical of Trump than Putin for example why is this? 

 

More critical of the Saudis than Iran, why is this?

 

He has apolitical agenda which is fine, he is a militant, just admit it! 

 

I would have a lot more respect for him if he didn't try and bullshit us all the time. Its odd that so many fall for his behaviour. 

[yorkie1999]

Lets see how the arsenal fans get on in Russia then, bit of a taster for the world cup. 

[leicsmac]

12 minutes ago, breadandcheese said:

I think the issue is that his criticism of Russia and Putin is always very soft in comparison to his criticism of other countries and our allies.  It is not a new accusation, that he is a sympathiser of anti-Western groups and organisations, but it is something that is a concern. 

 

7 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

Spot on. He often pedals the same old bollocks rhetoric about human rights, LBGT rights etc. etc. it empty words, he has said them time and time again and will continue to do so.

 

He is a lot more critical of Trump than Putin for example why is this? 

 

More critical of the Saudis than Iran, why is this?

 

He has apolitical agenda which is fine, he is a militant, just admit it! 

 

I would have a lot more respect for him if he didn't try and bullshit us all the time. Its odd that so many fall for his behaviour. 

The UK should be a lot more critical of its allies than its friends if we're looking to hold up any kind of moral standard, as some seem to believe.

 

It's rather darkly funny that to rival Russia - a country with very questionable human rights records - we chose to get cosy with one country that has a human rights record that would make Russia blush (and look to take notes), and another who are not quite as bad but also much better at covering it up simply because they are the biggest kid in the playground (check out what the new head of the CIA has been up to in the past, for instance).

 

Why do people think that is ok?

[Guest Foxin_mad]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

The UK should be a lot more critical of its allies than its friends if we're looking to hold up any kind of moral standard, as some seem to believe.

 

It's rather darkly funny that to rival Russia - a country with very questionable human rights records - we chose to get cosy with one country that has a human rights record that would make Russia blush (and look to take notes), and another who are not quite as bad but also much better at covering it up simply because they are the biggest kid in the playground (check out what the new head of the CIA has been up to in the past, for instance).

 

Why do people think that is ok?

I don't think anyone has said it is. I think there are double standards on BOTH sides but what is funny is when people compare Corbyn to some kind of saint. He has some very questionable contacts and supports some questionable regimes as do the Government. 

 

I guess its the slightly murky world of money, if Saudi  are putting xbillion into our economy which can be spent for good on our population, can we afford to stop trading with them. 

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

I don't think anyone has said it is. I think there are double standards on BOTH sides but what is funny is when people compare Corbyn to some kind of saint. He has some very questionable contacts and supports some questionable regimes as do the Government. 

 

I guess its the slightly murky world of money, if Saudi  are putting xbillion into our economy which can be spent for good on our population, can we afford to stop trading with them. 

4

I don't think they have either, but rather accepted it simply as a fait accompli which pretty much amounts to the same thing.

 

Edit: The UK simply cannot ally with such nations and then look to claim any kind of moral high ground; I'd rather they just be honest and say "look, these abuses are alright because it's our side doing them."

[breadandcheese]

11 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

The UK should be a lot more critical of its allies than its friends if we're looking to hold up any kind of moral standard, as some seem to believe.

 

It's rather darkly funny that to rival Russia - a country with very questionable human rights records - we chose to get cosy with one country that has a human rights record that would make Russia blush, and another who are not quite as bad but also much better at covering it up simply because they are the biggest( kid in the playground (check out what the new head of the CIA has been up to in the past, for instance).

 

Why do people think that is ok?

In which case, why is Corbyn not more critical of Russia, Hezbollah, etc?

 

I'll reply as someone who is ok with the situation you describe.  It is not that I am delighted with Saudi Arabia's human rights record (far from it), or Trump as president, but I am prepared to maintain our relationships as it defends our country's interests and more importantly, our security.  Cosying up with anti Western elements does not do this. 

 

[Guest Foxin_mad]

5 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I don't think they have either, but rather accepted it simply as a fait accompli which pretty much amounts to the same thing.

I suppose the question is if we take say £50 billion out of the economy to stop trade with a country with poor human rights records, who here is going to be worse off to pay for that? Do we remove that from the NHS, Schools, its a tough call, I wouldn't want to be the one to make it. 

 

Globally how many countries could we trade with that have unquestionable records? No many including our own I would say!

[katieakita]

25 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

Perhaps the Guardian/Mirror will blame it on Brexit, Austerity, Cuts on the Met Office or the 'TORY SCUM' 

Sadly perhaps they will which says a lot about the British press on both sides of the political spectrum