simFox Posted 17 March 2018 Posted 17 March 2018 1 hour ago, Dr The Singh said: I have many soldiers in my household, I have 6 current, and over 20 within 2 generations and more over 6 generations If you think soldiers do not have a moral compass then I'm afraid, your taking out of your backside. Soldiers are trained to fight and follow orders, but they trust those that give them the orders. In this case where the French obviously have no regard for there Sikh population, why would those Soldiers risk there life. My grand dad faught in world war 2 for the British, and I asked him would he fight for the British, knowing what they did, he said he faught, because he believed the Germans were an evil that needed destroying. He actually volunteered to fight. My cousin faught for the indiam army, he today regrets ever wearing the uniform for them, knowing now the genocide attacks the Indian government did against the Sikhs in the 80's. How many soldiers today are having mental and psychological trauma due to fighting a immoral war in Iraq? Just as I thought, your not a soldier so stop speaking for them. My mums a hairdresser but I don't go round talking about the moral dilemma's they've faced. The way you're talking about the British is down right offensive seeing as you're just as British as I am.
Dr The Singh Posted 17 March 2018 Posted 17 March 2018 23 minutes ago, simFox said: Just as I thought, your not a soldier so stop speaking for them. My mums a hairdresser but I don't go round talking about the moral dilemma's they've faced. The way you're talking about the British is down right offensive seeing as you're just as British as I am. were not footballers either, maybe we should stop talking about football. What a load of tosh, it's a forum by the way....
simFox Posted 17 March 2018 Posted 17 March 2018 2 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said: were not footballers either, maybe we should stop talking about football. What a load of tosh, it's a forum by the way.... I'm quite sure the moral dilemma footballers face when playing for a club they don't actually support, is also of no consequence and their presence on the pitch will have absolutely no influence on club policy 100 years from now. Much like any other job really.
AlloverthefloorYesNdidi Posted 17 March 2018 Posted 17 March 2018 1 hour ago, simFox said: I'm quite sure the moral dilemma footballers face when playing for a club they don't actually support, is also of no consequence and their presence on the pitch will have absolutely no influence on club policy 100 years from now. Much like any other job really. I have heard both your arguments from different soldiers who fought in recent conflicts. One expressed your view and one Dr the Singhs
fuchsntf Posted 17 March 2018 Posted 17 March 2018 8 hours ago, Dr The Singh said: were not footballers either, maybe we should stop talking about football. What a load of tosh, it's a forum by the way.... That got 'im..!! Cosh the tosh.
VLC86 Posted 17 March 2018 Posted 17 March 2018 Our Tre has brought out the big guns now, Putin can’t handle Slipknot
Dr The Singh Posted 18 March 2018 Posted 18 March 2018 13 hours ago, simFox said: I'm quite sure the moral dilemma footballers face when playing for a club they don't actually support, is also of no consequence and their presence on the pitch will have absolutely no influence on club policy 100 years from now. Much like any other job really. I'm really confused, this is a forum which people express there opinions, I'm not sure what your expecting.
Wymsey Posted 18 March 2018 Posted 18 March 2018 Putin is apparently willing to collaborate with the UK regarding this incident.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43448682 It certainly feels tit-for-tat with the UK accusing them of storing the nerve agent involved, with Russia either denying they've played a part in this and blame other nations for it. Hence, can only see this as a short-lived idea that won't get anywhere positive imo.
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 20 March 2018 Posted 20 March 2018 I see cuddly Corbyn says that we still need to deal with Russia on the basis of UK Values. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43463161 What about the US, Saudi Arabia and Israel, can we not deal with them on the basis of UK Values to? Shall we allow the president of our most important trading partner to visit us on the basis that we adhere to our own values? According to Corbyn its ok to take dirty money as long as it is on the basis of UK Values. But only if its a regime he doesn't disagree with?! When will people see through this clown?
Fox Ulike Posted 20 March 2018 Posted 20 March 2018 20 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said: I see cuddly Corbyn says that we still need to deal with Russia on the basis of UK Values. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43463161 What about the US, Saudi Arabia and Israel, can we not deal with them on the basis of UK Values to? Shall we allow the president of our most important trading partner to visit us on the basis that we adhere to our own values? According to Corbyn its ok to take dirty money as long as it is on the basis of UK Values. But only if its a regime he doesn't disagree with?! When will people see through this clown? Factcheck: What Corbyn actually said was: "Would I do business with Putin, sure? And I'd challenge him on human rights in Russia, challenge him on these issues and challenge him on that whole basis of that relationship. You have to deal with people who are in the position they are as head of state,"
breadandcheese Posted 20 March 2018 Posted 20 March 2018 Just now, Fox Ulike said: Factcheck: What Corbyn actually said was: "Would I do business with Putin, sure? And I'd challenge him on human rights in Russia, challenge him on these issues and challenge him on that whole basis of that relationship. You have to deal with people who are in the position they are as head of state," What does that actually mean though? I would challenge him?
Fox Ulike Posted 20 March 2018 Posted 20 March 2018 1 minute ago, breadandcheese said: What does that actually mean though? I would challenge him? Good point and it's a shame that the interviewer didn't press him on this. I think Corbyn's philosophy is consistent regardless of whether he's talking about Putin, Trump, the IRA or any other oppressive or violent group. That is, you can't just pretend that they don't exist by ignoring them. You have to deal with whoever has power - legitimate power or otherwise, but you don't have to like them, and you shouldn't roll out the red carpet for them (literally with Trump). To be fair I don't think that the Conservatives are too different in that respect (apart from the Trump lovers).
Strokes Posted 20 March 2018 Posted 20 March 2018 1 minute ago, Fox Ulike said: Good point and it's a shame that the interviewer didn't press him on this. I think Corbyn's philosophy is consistent regardless of whether he's talking about Putin, Trump, the IRA or any other oppressive or violent group. That is, you can't just pretend that they don't exist by ignoring them. You have to deal with whoever has power - legitimate power or otherwise, but you don't have to like them, and you shouldn't roll out the red carpet for them (literally with Trump). To be fair I don't think that the Conservatives are too different in that respect (apart from the Trump lovers). He said he would do business with him, isn’t this contrary to your own position of the uk and Saudi deals? I may be mistaken I can’t remember your own position on that.
breadandcheese Posted 20 March 2018 Posted 20 March 2018 2 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: Good point and it's a shame that the interviewer didn't press him on this. I think Corbyn's philosophy is consistent regardless of whether he's talking about Putin, Trump, the IRA or any other oppressive or violent group. That is, you can't just pretend that they don't exist by ignoring them. You have to deal with whoever has power - legitimate power or otherwise, but you don't have to like them, and you shouldn't roll out the red carpet for them (literally with Trump). To be fair I don't think that the Conservatives are too different in that respect (apart from the Trump lovers). I read it entirely differently. The word challenge has been chosen by Corbyn precisely because it is one of those great political words that makes you sound strong whilst being utterly ambiguous to the point of meaningless. It means nothing. And I think you do a disservice to Corbyn's position. He does like some pretty horrible groups, is prepared to role out the red carpet and call them friends. The difference is that he chooses to befriend pretty nefarious people over whom he has no influence or ability to affect their approach. If anything, these groups are able to use Corbyn as a useful idiot more than anything else.
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 20 March 2018 Posted 20 March 2018 8 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: Good point and it's a shame that the interviewer didn't press him on this. I think Corbyn's philosophy is consistent regardless of whether he's talking about Putin, Trump, the IRA or any other oppressive or violent group. That is, you can't just pretend that they don't exist by ignoring them. You have to deal with whoever has power - legitimate power or otherwise, but you don't have to like them, and you shouldn't roll out the red carpet for them (literally with Trump). To be fair I don't think that the Conservatives are too different in that respect (apart from the Trump lovers). I don't think Corbyns philosophy is consistent. He has called for us to stop trade with the Saudis, he has said the US is not our most important trading partner and he has called for a boycott of products from Israel! Do we take the money or not and who from? My stance is if it can be used to benefit our nation it doesn't really bother me, its the double standards I cant stand. You cant say we don't like trading with the Saudis because they are funding a war in Yemen, but we will trade with Russia who have annexed Crimea! You cant say you praise the work of the Soviet Union and pretend that everything the British Empire did for the world was terrible! Its ridiculous! Either condemn something or don't! Just stop bullshitting us and set out your true position.
Fox Ulike Posted 20 March 2018 Posted 20 March 2018 14 minutes ago, Strokes said: He said he would do business with him, isn’t this contrary to your own position of the uk and Saudi deals? I may be mistaken I can’t remember your own position on that. No I just want us to stop selling weapons to the Saudis for their use on Yemeni civilians. I don't believe we should just stop doing all other business with them. I think we have to be practical in the real world, but I draw the line at the weapons trade.
Carl the Llama Posted 20 March 2018 Posted 20 March 2018 2 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said: I don't think Corbyns philosophy is consistent. He has called for us to stop trade with the Saudis, he has said the US is not our most important trading partner and he has called for a boycott of products from Israel! Do we take the money or not and who from? My stance is if it can be used to benefit our nation it doesn't really bother me, its the double standards I cant stand. You cant say we don't like trading with the Saudis because they are funding a war in Yemen, but we will trade with Russia who have annexed Crimea! You cant say you praise the work of the Soviet Union and pretend that everything the British Empire did for the world was terrible! Its ridiculous! Either condemn something or don't! Just stop bullshitting us and set out your true position. Is this Corbyn's position? I genuinely don't know. Personally I'd want us to cease arms trading with any oppressive regimes (ideally stop the arms trade altogether but yaknow) but still supply them more useful products and still purchase useful products from them.
Fox Ulike Posted 20 March 2018 Posted 20 March 2018 9 minutes ago, breadandcheese said: I read it entirely differently. The word challenge has been chosen by Corbyn precisely because it is one of those great political words that makes you sound strong whilst being utterly ambiguous to the point of meaningless. It means nothing. And I think you do a disservice to Corbyn's position. He does like some pretty horrible groups, is prepared to role out the red carpet and call them friends. The difference is that he chooses to befriend pretty nefarious people over whom he has no influence or ability to affect their approach. If anything, these groups are able to use Corbyn as a useful idiot more than anything else. OK well you've just read it according to your view of Corbyn as a 'useful idiot'. There's not a lot I can do to debate against your pre-existing prejudices, especially since you don't offer any examples of Corbyn's 'horrible groups' or 'friends'.
Strokes Posted 20 March 2018 Posted 20 March 2018 3 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: No I just want us to stop selling weapons to the Saudis for their use on Yemeni civilians. I don't believe we should just stop doing all other business with them. I think we have to be practical in the real world, but I draw the line at the weapons trade. Ah fair enough, I completely understand.
Guest MattP Posted 20 March 2018 Posted 20 March 2018 5 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: No I just want us to stop selling weapons to the Saudis for their use on Yemeni civilians. I don't believe we should just stop doing all other business with them. I think we have to be practical in the real world, but I draw the line at the weapons trade. Why just Saudi? Surely you also have to stop trading weaponry to the UAE as well? What about selling them weapons to attack Iranian intelligence inside Yemen? Is that a no-no?
Fox Ulike Posted 20 March 2018 Posted 20 March 2018 8 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said: I don't think Corbyns philosophy is consistent. He has called for us to stop trade with the Saudis, he has said the US is not our most important trading partner and he has called for a boycott of products from Israel! Do we take the money or not and who from? My stance is if it can be used to benefit our nation it doesn't really bother me, its the double standards I cant stand. You cant say we don't like trading with the Saudis because they are funding a war in Yemen, but we will trade with Russia who have annexed Crimea! You cant say you praise the work of the Soviet Union and pretend that everything the British Empire did for the world was terrible! Its ridiculous! Either condemn something or don't! Just stop bullshitting us and set out your true position. Factcheck. Corbyn has called on us to stop selling weapons to the Saudis, not trading with them. The US isn't our most important trading partner, the EU is. So he's right there. I couldn't find anything about an Israeli boycott, but I did find an article called: "Jeremy Corbyn does not support boycott of Israel". https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/13/jeremy-corbyn-does-not-support-boycott-of-israel-bds-movement 0 out of 3. Why do you consistently get these things wrong??
Beechey Posted 20 March 2018 Posted 20 March 2018 9 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: No I just want us to stop selling weapons to the Saudis for their use on Yemeni civilians. I don't believe we should just stop doing all other business with them. I think we have to be practical in the real world, but I draw the line at the weapons trade. Unfortunately it's a necessity for national security. Ceasing the trading of weapons from UK businesses means they get rid of staff and we lose vital know-how. We were due to lose 2,000 staff from BAE's Eurofighter line before the sale to Saudi Arabia. The only alternative it upping the UK's purchases to keep the people in work.
Fox Ulike Posted 20 March 2018 Posted 20 March 2018 5 minutes ago, MattP said: Why just Saudi? Surely you also have to stop trading weaponry to the UAE as well? What about selling them weapons to attack Iranian intelligence inside Yemen? Is that a no-no? I don't know. Are the UAE using British bombs on civilians? If so then, yes, I would support stopping weapons sales to them too.
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 20 March 2018 Posted 20 March 2018 10 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: Is this Corbyn's position? I genuinely don't know. Personally I'd want us to cease arms trading with any oppressive regimes (ideally stop the arms trade altogether but yaknow) but still supply them more useful products and still purchase useful products from them. He seems to have a bit of a thing for the Soviet Union. Its fine it suits his agenda. Why wont he just admit it! https://libcom.org/history/i-am-concerned-break-soviet-union-leadership-it-gave-jeremy-corbyns-words-wisdom-stalini
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 20 March 2018 Posted 20 March 2018 1 minute ago, Fox Ulike said: I don't know. Are the UAE using British bombs on civilians? If so then, yes, I would support stopping weapons sales to them too. Who funds the job losses and cuts in public services then?
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