Scoring... or lack thereof

[vanity]

Vardy is the wrong type of forward for Puel's recent line-ups. When you build from the back like we do, you need a no. 9 comfortable dropping away from goal to come back and play others forward. A Diego Costa type. There is a reason Vardy is so isolated -- he likes to play from the CB's hip, which leaves a large amount of space between him and our midfield. It is this space Okazaki works in. But without Shinji, if a midfielder comes fed w the ball, the passing options are limited. Mahrez is often doubled, Albrighton is primarily a defensive player who can dribble and cross, and Vardy is too far away thanks to deep backlines. When someone like Iborra or Maguire or Chilwell bring the ball forward, Vardy is too far away to pass to, and Mahrez too risky a pass, so the ball winds up with Albrighton who can really only cross. If Vardy would come back to the ball and try to control the attack from closer to the top of the penalty area, Albrighton and Mahrez could make better quality runs, and we'd be a better side. So we'd better start Shinji going fwd.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

11 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

Canny thread this, disguised as being about our scoring record, but essentially another variation on the 'let's find fault with the manager' theme.

Yes.

 

That is because there is a link between a football manager and the play or results of the team.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

11 hours ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

I would be concerned if we weren't creating chances.

 

But we are.

What sort of chances are we creating though of late?

 

From my perspective (bar the Championship team that are WBA) we are creating virtually nothing for our most dangerous players.

 

Its all lob it into the box stuff and see where it lands.

 

Vardys form; the best conversion rate in the PL; I believe is masking that the quality of chances being made which are actually poor.

 

 

[HighPeakFox]

2 hours ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

Yes.

 

That is because there is a link between a football manager and the play or results of the team.

Credit where it's due though, at least the word 'thereof' got used.

[Manwell Pablo]

I think 7 goals in his last 9 games or whatever it is would suggest Jamie Vardy not getting into games is most definitely not the problem.

 

The fact the only other player that ever scores is Mahrez  is the worry.  It's actually a surprise to see anyone else's name on the score sheet. 

[Babylon]

15 hours ago, cc_star said:

On only two occasions this year we've scored more than 1 goal in a home game in the league - And both those were over 2 months ago

 

Puel's non-scoring reputation, that most people were concerned with when he was appointed, has got more & more true the longer he's had influence on our players

 

Did those 1st two months where he got good results & climbed the table from our false position flatter to deceive, bearing in mind he only tweaked our tactics & we generally played the same style we always had? or is he on the cusp of securing a regular top 6 spot in line with the owners long-stated wishes?

So 2 out of the 6 games we've played in the new year we've scored more than 2. One of the other games was against Chelsea and the other three we missed a combined 51 shots at goal.

 

The only difference between the West Brom game where we scored 4 and the other three where we only scored 1 was taking our chances. Simple as that.

 

There are things to work on, but the overreaction on here is ridiculous.

[Koke]

We are the 7th highest scores in the league.Vardy is on 14 league goals and Mahrez is on 10. Hardly a crisis.

 

As Manwell said we do need to spread out the goals more.  Albrighton has never been a goal scorer and Gray isn't reliable. Jury is still out on Diabate though he looks good. 

Edited 20 March 2018 by Koke

[ZeGuy]

4 hours ago, Manwell Pablo said:

I think 7 goals in his last 9 games or whatever it is would suggest Jamie Vardy not getting into games is most definitely not the problem.

 

The fact the only other player that ever scores is Mahrez  is the worry.  It's actually a surprise to see anyone else's name on the score sheet. 

Hit on the nail. Shinji doesn't score, Albrighton doesn't score, Ndidi has a powerful shot but it's a bit of hit and hope, Iborra rarely takes a chance. 

 

The opponent has it too easy.

Edited 20 March 2018 by ZeGuy

[KingsX]

5 hours ago, Koke said:

We are the 7th highest scores in the league.Vardy is on 14 league goals and Mahrez is on 10. Hardly a crisis.

 

As Manwell said we do need to spread out the goals more.  Albrighton has never been a goal scorer and Gray isn't reliable. Jury is still out on Diabate though he looks good. 

The scariest thing is that you didn't even mention Iheanacho, and nobody noticed.  These "missing" goals were supposed to come from him.

[the fox]

We always play better team football and link-up better when Vardy isn't playing. yes, i said it!

I said it in the first days of Puel, he will try to faze Vardy out of the team in the next few years with a striker that has great link-up play. 

Vards is too good of a player to drop and he doesn't lack goals but he isn't the right player for this system

Edited 20 March 2018 by the fox

[NotTheMarketLeader]

10 hours ago, Babylon said:

So 2 out of the 6 games we've played in the new year we've scored more than 2. One of the other games was against Chelsea and the other three we missed a combined 51 shots at goal.

 

The only difference between the West Brom game where we scored 4 and the other three where we only scored 1 was taking our chances. Simple as that.

 

There are things to work on, but the overreaction on here is ridiculous.

51 shots.

 

How many were scorable chances? 

 

Difficult to quantify that, but I suspect not many.

 

Our main striker isn’t missing many at present, so are they shots by Wes or Simpson? 

 

I do not believe we are creating quality chances; seems to me it’s lump it in and see where it lands, half chances, if that and literally dropping to the wrong man. 

 

All anecdotal but that’s what it’s looking like to me.

Edited 20 March 2018 by NotTheMarketLeader

[Babylon]

12 hours ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

51 shots.

 

How many were scorable chances? 

 

Difficult to quantify that, but I suspect not many.

 

Our main striker isn’t missing many at present, so are they shots by Wes or Simpson? 

 

I do not believe we are creating quality chances; seems to me it’s lump it in and see where it lands, half chances, if that and literally dropping to the wrong man. 

 

All anecdotal but that’s what it’s looking like to me.

Well I remember us missing no end, or goalkeepers making some excellent saves. Iheanacho missing two sitters, headers hitting posts, open goal headers being missed. It's a team game, you can't expect every chance to fall to Vardy, it just doesn't work like that.

 

The Stoke game was poor, we didn't get anywhere near close enough. But the others there were plenty of chances to convert. The West Brom game chances were no better than the ones against those teams, we just took almost every one that came along.

 

I've repeated a number of times, that we need to be better on our delivery and we need better attacking full backs. We're getting ourselves into great areas but failing to capitalise, how often did we see that against Chelsea.

 

At the moment we're also taking probably a second too long to release the ball. But it's getting better, it's not as slow as it was at the start and it will come the more comfortable we get doing it.

 

Edited 21 March 2018 by Babylon

[NotTheMarketLeader]

11 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Well I remember us missing no end, or goalkeepers making some excellent saves. Iheanacho missing two sitters, headers hitting posts, open goal headers being missed. It's a team game, you can't expect every chance to fall to Vardy, it just doesn't work like that.

 

The Stoke game was poor, we didn't get anywhere near close enough. But the others there were plenty of chances to convert. The West Brom game chances were no better than the ones against those teams, we just took almost every one that came along.

 

I've repeated a number of times, that we need to be better on our delivery and we need better attacking full backs. We're getting ourselves into great areas but failing to capitalise, how often did we see that against Chelsea.

Can’t argue with how shit the full backs are with their delivery.

 

You have to ask though, knowing that is the case, why continue with  those tactics?

 

If you can’t get a decent cross in, or they are all in the air with short arse strikers, is it ever likely to be a successful tactic? 

 

Is it a coincidence that Southampton created ‘a lot chances’ last year but struggled to convert them? 

 

Maybe not.

 

Edited 21 March 2018 by NotTheMarketLeader

[MC Prussian]

Whenever I look at the table and our league position, the one thing that grates me more than our alleged lack of scoring ability is our failure to defend. For a Top Eight side, we're doing fairly well with goals scored - let's forget Manchester City and Liverpool, they are operating on a different level; it's only five to ten goals more with teams such as Manchester United or Arsenal.

 

It's the goals against that are more worrying. We've conceded the most out of all Top Eight sides, with three lower-ranked teams having conceded even less than us. Burnley have conceded only 26 goals so far! Our defensive horror show includes some of the most frustrating defeats this season, such as Crystal Palace at home, or the lacklustre draws against Stoke or Bournemouth.

Need to work on that.

 

Whom would I fault most? Schmeichel for having a rather mediocre season, with several unusual goalkeeping errors, the latest one against Chelsea in the FA Cup? An aging Captain Morgan? Simpson or Chilwell, who both fail to be wingbacks and are terrible at tracking back when caught on a counter? Ndidi for trying too much up front at times and not covering our back four? Difficult call - I think they're all responsible one way or another. And Puel, for in parts trying to implement a system with players that can't cope with the demands.

[ZeGuy]

1 hour ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

Can’t argue with how shit the full backs are with their delivery.

 

You have to ask though, knowing that is the case, why continue with  those tactics?

 

If you can’t get a decent cross in, or they are all in the air with short arse strikers, is it ever likely to be a successful tactic? 

 

Is it a coincidence that Southampton created ‘a lot chances’ last year but struggled to convert them? 

 

Maybe not.

 

What would be the alternative though? Back to surrender possession and chasing shadows? That won't work anymore. We don't have the personal, rival teams are wary enough and won't let you have your way.

 

He perfectly knows that the FBs aren't delivering and the team isn't firing on all cylinders but at least the core of the team is learning to play that way which will be beneficial for the next seasons.

 

This season was and is about transition and long term planning. It was clear from the beginning, at least for those who have a little patience and we were bound to have shit games and mixed results. Whilst the sunday's disappointement is understandable as we all want to win that missing trophy, finishing 8th this season is perfectly fine.

 

We just can't Keep on firing the manager every season. We are not Chelsea, we would look ridiculous, no sane manager would touch us with a barge pole and relegation is then programmed for the short term.

 

Give the guy a transfer window, a proper season with his players and then if things don't get bettter, you lot can moan and whine until your throats and eyes run dry.

Edited 21 March 2018 by ZeGuy

[ZeGuy]

double post.

Edited 21 March 2018 by ZeGuy

[turtmcfly]

39 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Whenever I look at the table and our league position, the one thing that grates me more than our alleged lack of scoring ability is our failure to defend. For a Top Eight side, we're doing fairly well with goals scored - let's forget Manchester City and Liverpool, they are operating on a different level; it's only five to ten goals more with teams such as Manchester United or Arsenal.

 

It's the goals against that are more worrying. We've conceded the most out of all Top Eight sides, with three lower-ranked teams having conceded even less than us. Burnley have conceded only 26 goals so far! Our defensive horror show includes some of the most frustrating defeats this season, such as Crystal Palace at home, or the lacklustre draws against Stoke or Bournemouth.

Need to work on that.

 

Whom would I fault most? Schmeichel for having a rather mediocre season, with several unusual goalkeeping errors, the latest one against Chelsea in the FA Cup? An aging Captain Morgan? Simpson or Chilwell, who both fail to be wingbacks and are terrible at tracking back when caught on a counter? Ndidi for trying too much up front at times and not covering our back four? Difficult call - I think they're all responsible one way or another. And Puel, for in parts trying to implement a system with players that can't cope with the demands.

 

I'd agree the defence has been the main worry. Which is why calls for a return to our counter attacking style might not have the outcome some think. It implies inviting pressure and successfully soaking it up. Put our current defence (personnel plus performance) in the 2015-16 season and you're not seeing just 38 goals against - I think a lot more of our 'counter-attacks' would be starting from the centre circle.

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

Can’t argue with how shit the full backs are with their delivery.

 

You have to ask though, knowing that is the case, why continue with  those tactics?

 

If you can’t get a decent cross in, or they are all in the air with short arse strikers, is it ever likely to be a successful tactic? 

 

Is it a coincidence that Southampton created ‘a lot chances’ last year but struggled to convert them? 

 

Maybe not.

If you have a long term style you want to implement, then I see no problem getting everyone else use to that system until you are able to improve it with better players. We're sat 8th, it's not like we're struggling and desperate for every point.

 

In terms of short arse strikers, I'd imagine the tactic is aimed at getting runners onto cut backs rather than perhaps standard crosses. In theory when working perfectly the full back going outside and the winger going inside gives you two totally different options and should create space by pulling out defenders. At the moment the other team can still tightly mark the winger and ignore someone like Simpson as they know he's not got the quality.

 

Unless there is a catastrophe I still think a manager should get a good 18 months, especially when implementing a new style of play. Give him the summer window and hopefully we can shift out some dead wood and find players that suit his system. Then we can judge properly.

Edited 21 March 2018 by Babylon

[shen]

17 minutes ago, Babylon said:

If you have a long term style you want to implement, then I see no problem getting everyone else use to that system until you are able to improve it with better players. We're sat 8th, it's not like we're struggling and desperate for every point.

 

In terms of short arse strikers, I'd imagine the tactic is aimed at getting runners onto cut backs rather than perhaps standard crosses. In theory when working perfectly the full back going outside and the winger going inside gives you two totally different options and should create space by pulling out defenders. At the moment the other team can still tightly mark the winger and ignore someone like Simpson as they know he's not got the quality.

 

Unless there is a catastrophe I still think a manager should get a good 18 months, especially when implementing a new style of play. Give him the summer window and hopefully we can shit out some dead wood and find players that suit his system. Then we can judge properly.

This is the problem we are indeed seeing lately and as recently as Chelsea. They were more than happy to allow Simpson and Chilwell on the ball and keeping it narrow. Chilwell and Albrighton constantly tried to cut inside or run in the channels instead of going wide. As long as crosses were coming in from deep, they were comfortably dealing with things. It took Mahrez going to the byline before any danger appeared and it promptly resulted in a goal.

[Guest]

18 hours ago, KingsX said:

The scariest thing is that you didn't even mention Iheanacho, and nobody noticed.  These "missing" goals were supposed to come from him.

 

You mean the guy who has only started 9 times this season and has 13 sub appearances? FYI he's played less than a quarter of the time Mahrez has but scored more than half as many goals.

[Guest]

18 hours ago, the fox said:

We always play better team football and link-up better when Vardy isn't playing. yes, i said it!

I said it in the first days of Puel, he will try to faze Vardy out of the team in the next few years with a striker that has great link-up play. 

Vards is too good of a player to drop and he doesn't lack goals but he isn't the right player for this system

Mahrez apologist alert. Attack Vardy as a cover for defending Mahrez.

 

Maybe we should be concentrating on the players who are staying and not try to make the guy who is leaving the centre of play. It has been noticeable that Puel has allowed Mahrez to dominate our possession which has resulted in a few goals but sadly Mahrez isn't an efficient scorer - he misses a lot and he has stopped passing as much as he did - which is his best skill, early, accurate passing. I'm sure the stats will show that he's lost the ball a lot and missed a lot of shots. In our league winning season, Mahrez first thought was always to free Vardy, ever since his first thought is to dribble and show his stepover. 

[NotTheMarketLeader]

1 hour ago, ZeGuy said:

What would be the alternative though? Back to surrender possession and chasing shadows? That won't work anymore. We don't have the personal, rival teams are wary enough and won't let you have your way.

 

He perfectly knows that the FBs aren't delivering and the team isn't firing on all cylinders but at least the core of the team is learning to play that way which will be beneficial for the next seasons.

 

This season was and is about transition and long term planning. It was clear from the beginning, at least for those who have a little patience and we were bound to have shit games and mixed results. Whilst the sunday's disappointement is understandable as we all want to win that missing trophy, finishing 8th this season is perfectly fine.

 

We just can't Keep on firing the manager every season. We are not Chelsea, we would look ridiculous, no sane manager would touch us with a barge pole and relegation is then programmed for the short term.

 

Give the guy a transfer window, a proper season with his players and then if things don't get bettter, you lot can moan and whine until your throats and eyes run dry.

I’m not saying sack him; Im saying he is making errors. 

 

I said in my post that Chilwell and Simpson are not up to the task of providing an end product with all the attacking play going through them.

 

What are the alternatives, you ask.

 

Dont do what is not working for starters; change tactics to produce chances through the middle. There are loads of options with the midfielders we have.

 

If keeping the same tactics as

the last two months switch to people who can put in a good delivery; Fuchs, Albrighton.

 

Fuch’s legs have gone, but Chilwell can’t defend or provide so we may as well go with the one that can do the latter. Albrighton; based on one makeshift performance - I’m not having that he can’t be the right wing back. He has the attributes to do it I believe.

 

Most of all let’s get at teams with some gusto from the KO ffs, rather than pussy footing around in first halves; make scoring the first goal our first priority.

 

 

 

Edited 21 March 2018 by NotTheMarketLeader

[the fox]

1 hour ago, FIF said:

Mahrez apologist alert. Attack Vardy as a cover for defending Mahrez.

 

Maybe we should be concentrating on the players who are staying and not try to make the guy who is leaving the centre of play. It has been noticeable that Puel has allowed Mahrez to dominate our possession which has resulted in a few goals but sadly Mahrez isn't an efficient scorer - he misses a lot and he has stopped passing as much as he did - which is his best skill, early, accurate passing. I'm sure the stats will show that he's lost the ball a lot and missed a lot of shots. In our league winning season, Mahrez first thought was always to free Vardy, ever since his first thought is to dribble and show his stepover. 

Come on, FIF! you are now just trolling. When did i mention mahrez ?

[Nod.E]

4 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

Whenever I look at the table and our league position, the one thing that grates me more than our alleged lack of scoring ability is our failure to defend. For a Top Eight side, we're doing fairly well with goals scored - let's forget Manchester City and Liverpool, they are operating on a different level; it's only five to ten goals more with teams such as Manchester United or Arsenal.

 

It's the goals against that are more worrying. We've conceded the most out of all Top Eight sides, with three lower-ranked teams having conceded even less than us. Burnley have conceded only 26 goals so far! Our defensive horror show includes some of the most frustrating defeats this season, such as Crystal Palace at home, or the lacklustre draws against Stoke or Bournemouth.

Need to work on that.

 

Whom would I fault most? Schmeichel for having a rather mediocre season, with several unusual goalkeeping errors, the latest one against Chelsea in the FA Cup? An aging Captain Morgan? Simpson or Chilwell, who both fail to be wingbacks and are terrible at tracking back when caught on a counter? Ndidi for trying too much up front at times and not covering our back four? Difficult call - I think they're all responsible one way or another. And Puel, for in parts trying to implement a system with players that can't cope with the demands.

Our fullbacks are our weakest area by some distance. It's painfully obvious. Fix that and we become such a better side. Quite simple for me.