Mahrez replacements

[Long Eaton Fox]

21 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Or there was a plan and something screwed it up... for all we know we've been in dialogue about Hazzard or another player for 18 months, then suddenly a club changes it's mind, or another team snaps them up. Or they have an incredible season and the price trebles. We have absolutely no idea.

 

We've been pretty swift at identifying targets and getting them in of late. The Maddison, Evans and Pereira transfers were all talked about months before they happened. So there was clearly dialogue going on and the transfers themselves happened quickly once the window was open. Same for the N'didi transfer, we know that scouting and relationship building was going on for over a year.

 

Do we really think, that the club just decided that they wouldn't bother doing that for the one of the best players we've ever had? They thought, sod all that planning malarky.... lets just wing it this summer.

 

This isn't just blind defence, I've been heavily critical about how we go about things in the past, I'm still massively unconvinced about our management selection process, as finners pointed out above. But I've seen improvements, I just can't believe we'd put long term planning into so many other players and then just not bother in this instance.

Well two weeks for the master plan to materialise!

[Babylon]

2 minutes ago, Long Eaton Fox said:

Well two weeks for the master plan to materialise!

I think that misses the point somewhat, the plan seems to be in the bin already... but that doesn't mean it was our fault.

[sphericalfox]

All this talk of we had 2 years to plan for this is a nonsense in my view.

 

The challenge we have is clear. If we want to find a player willing to come to us for non-european football who has bucketful of existing talent or is a high prospect then it's highly likely that they will want to use us as a stepping stone. We've proven and will continue to prove (see Maguire) that we won't roll over for the big boys until we're ready to. This might be the reason we've missed out on a couple of scouted players this summer, and may still miss out out on a couple more.

 

I've mentioned it before that unless we pull an ace from the pack out of nowhere then people are going to be up in arms as we sign someone who doesn't fit the high expectations that they demand in replacing Mahrez.

 

It's more likely we'll fill that position with a more modest acquisition, which of course is slightly deflating, but you'd like to hope that this puts a fire across other members of the team, as we are less reliant on Mahrez magic, and they can step up.

[Ted Maul]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

Do you really think that hasn't been the case? If we did bid for that bloke then it shows we aren't happy with that we've got. The most likely thing is that our main targets have either gone elsewhere, clubs aren't willing to sell them or we won't pay what they want etc.

 

That fella might have been number 5 on the list, we were waiting on a decision from number 4 or they were looking likely, so we've had to react quickly to go for someone further down.

 

We aren't a Man City who can just pin point who they want and snap them up, we're competing with clubs all around Europe. Some far bigger and more glamorous than ourselves. So you can easily miss out on targets quite quickly.

 

The way it's going, we'll probably end up with a stop gap last minute player, just to fill a gap until we re scout or our top targets do become available. Sometimes these things happen, we've seemed to be getting far slicker at transfers as Rudkin gets more experience. So I can't sit here and say it's all his or the clubs fault.

 

That might also explain our reluctance to just accept any offer for Musa, if we're missing out on all of our targets, then we might be forced to give him 6 months to get us through to the next window. Not ideal obviously, but you need to keep all options open.

Maybe so, but we've seen plenty of wingers who are better than what we've got sign for not only direct rivals, but teams who we finished above last season- Anderson, Elyonoussi, Jahanbakhsh, Yarmolenko, Schurrle.

 

We might not be a huge draw, but we can easily compete with the teams those players have signed for. Some may not have been value for money, but who is in this market? Our reality is now that there's a decent chance we will be starting the season with 2 players out wide who need to make a huge step up to be effective and we've got £60m burning a hole in our pocket.

 

We can try to do things the 'right way' in looking for value and bemoan the inflated transfer fees in the market, but we run the risk of being overtaken by rivals when we really need to kick on. We've got to play the game for what it is- one big money signing won't hurt and would signal our intent going forward.

 

I just hope we've got a couple of aces up our sleeve, or this season could easily become a struggle when it really should be pretty comfortable.

[ronnup]

Just now, sphericalfox said:

All this talk of we had 2 years to plan for this is a nonsense in my view.

 

The challenge we have is clear. If we want to find a player willing to come to us for non-european football who has bucketful of existing talent or is a high prospect then it's highly likely that they will want to use us as a stepping stone. We've proven and will continue to prove (see Maguire) that we won't roll over for the big boys until we're ready to. This might be the reason we've missed out on a couple of scouted players this summer, and may still miss out out on a couple more.

 

I've mentioned it before that unless we pull an ace from the pack out of nowhere then people are going to be up in arms as we sign someone who doesn't fit the high expectations that they demand in replacing Mahrez.

 

It's more likely we'll fill that position with a more modest acquisition, which of course is slightly deflating, but you'd like to hope that this puts a fire across other members of the team, as we are less reliant on Mahrez magic, and they can step up.

 

But it seems we’re certainly in need of another ‘proven’ winger. We knew Mahrez was leaving. And we’re now know we tried to get Alireza. So many other clubs are better at having replacements lined up. We don’t seem to be in this case and it was the most in transfer (losing Riyad) in the universe. 

[sphericalfox]

Just now, ronnup said:

 

But it seems we’re certainly in need of another ‘proven’ winger. We knew Mahrez was leaving. And we’re now know we tried to get Alireza. So many other clubs are better at having replacements lined up. We don’t seem to be in this case and it was the most in transfer (losing Riyad) in the universe. 

Do we? Seems to me that we might have enquired. His agent, media, and twitter rumour patrol hyped it up as though we were. I don't believe we were anything other than having a look.

 

We are clearly spreading necessary attributes across the team, and trying not to be reliant on one person to deliver these. We've already done that with our RB and AM. Both capable of delivering deadballs, crosses, and Maddison with great vision.

 

Yes it'd be great if we had another person who can do that, but I've highlighted the reason we're struggling to find another Mahrez. It's not possible given our status, unless we find another rough diamond in a lower league ready to roll. That again isn't possible as our fans don't have patience to allow players to develop properly.

[North Leeds Fox]

We need at least 1 proven winger to add to the squad. 2 if we manage to offload a few to free up wages. We may have not got anyone in yet, but the options are still out there like traore (both of them), hazard, ziyech, lozano, pjaca, lookman, suso, Bernard, Bailey, konoplyanka all having the capability to improve the first team and squad and we may just be waiting until we have offloaded a few such as slimani, simmo, Ulloa until we get 1 of them in. It isn't the most ideal situation to do late dealings but I'd feel a lot more comfortable waiting until second or third match for them to get up to speed and improve our season than buying them with FFP hanging over us. 

[Lovejoy]

May be a pipedream, but perhaps we do have a target ready and that player's club aren't releasing him until they in turn have a replacement lined up.

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

We've clearly got one or two scouts bobbing around with an eye for a player. That part I don't disagree with. 

 

But our ability to get a deal done is sporadic and scatter gun, our recruitment of managers is abysmal, our negotiating over Mahrez and the fee we got were embarrassing. 

 

I know it's fashionable to the point of cliché to abuse Rudkin but all of those point towards to the actual recruitment part of the recruitment team (as opposed to finding) and that's his area of alleged expertise (or not, because he's an average PE teacher with delusions of grandeur.)

 

I find it really frustrating that the day to day football business side of the club is so far behind. 

 

I think our owners are very astute commercially but I think, possibly through too much loyalty to people they like, they're very naive in footballing terms. The man should have been replaced with an experienced pro years ago. We treat recruitment like an after thought. 

 

 

It is indeed baffling. 

[Babylon]

18 minutes ago, Ted Maul said:

Maybe so, but we've seen plenty of wingers who are better than what we've got sign for not only direct rivals, but teams who we finished above last season- Anderson, Elyonoussi, Jahanbakhsh, Yarmolenko, Schurrle.

We shall see, but there as as many question marks about whether most if them will make the grade in this league as there are whether Gray will step up.  And again, we could have been working on our top target for some time, in the mean time you can't stop other teams signing players whilst you wait on your targets. If your target falls through you're left a bit in the shit as other targets have moved on... my point is things don't always have to be the clubs fault.

 

Some things just can't be helped, having seen how well we dealt with our other recruitment this summer I can only hazard a guess that something went against us and has messed us up a bit.

[Ted Maul]

10 minutes ago, Babylon said:

We shall see, but there as as many question marks about whether most if them will make the grade in this league as there are whether Gray will step up.  And again, we could have been working on our top target for some time, in the mean time you can't stop other teams signing players whilst you wait on your targets. If your target falls through you're left a bit in the shit as other targets have moved on... my point is things don't always have to be the clubs fault.

 

Some things just can't be helped, having seen how well we dealt with our other recruitment this summer I can only hazard a guess that something went against us and has messed us up a bit.

Possibly. We'll see how things pan out. We only really need one player- if we get someone of the required quality in, I'll be very happy with the window as we did some good business early on. The problem is that we desperately need that one player- hopefully we can get it done.

[Babylon]

4 minutes ago, Ted Maul said:

Possibly. We'll see how things pan out. We only really need one player- if we get someone of the required quality in, I'll be very happy with the window as we did some good business early on. The problem is that we desperately need that one player- hopefully we can get it done.

Fear not...

 

[Ted Maul]

1 minute ago, Babylon said:

Fear not...

 

Really don't mind the idea of him as a back-up striker, but he should never play as a winger again!

[richardsfoxes]

Big week for us next week, we'll find out if the club are serious about improving our position from last season or not (with who we sign and who we sell). 

[ronnup]

2 hours ago, sphericalfox said:

Do we? Seems to me that we might have enquired. His agent, media, and twitter rumour patrol hyped it up as though we were. I don't believe we were anything other than having a look.

 

We are clearly spreading necessary attributes across the team, and trying not to be reliant on one person to deliver these. We've already done that with our RB and AM. Both capable of delivering deadballs, crosses, and Maddison with great vision.

 

Yes it'd be great if we had another person who can do that, but I've highlighted the reason we're struggling to find another Mahrez. It's not possible given our status, unless we find another rough diamond in a lower league ready to roll. That again isn't possible as our fans don't have patience to allow players to develop properly.

 

Nobody is expecting another Mahrez. Well....nobody sane. But are we definitely serious about replacing all those goals and assists? Hard to say so with the acquisitions so far. 

[sphericalfox]

3 minutes ago, ronnup said:

 

Nobody is expecting another Mahrez. Well....nobody sane. But are we definitely serious about replacing all those goals and assists? Hard to say so with the acquisitions so far. 

It's only hard to say, because we haven't seen them in full action yet. Saturday will likely be a sneak peek, but if you look at what Mahrez that converted into goals, I wonder how many of them came from mazy runs and dribbles, or those that came from deadfall or corner situations? I'm guessing they might have been the latter. If we pick those up elsewhere, then we don't need a wonderkid or significantly high standard player at this moment in time. Not saying we shouldn't, but if there's no one available or we can attract, we should address it then.

 

 

[Mehrez]

Thank god

[ItsLeo]

Hakim Ziyech.

[ronnup]

4 minutes ago, sphericalfox said:

It's only hard to say, because we haven't seen them in full action yet. Saturday will likely be a sneak peek, but if you look at what Mahrez that converted into goals, I wonder how many of them came from mazy runs and dribbles, or those that came from deadfall or corner situations? I'm guessing they might have been the latter. If we pick those up elsewhere, then we don't need a wonderkid or significantly high standard player at this moment in time. Not saying we shouldn't, but if there's no one available or we can attract, we should address it then.

 

 

 

‘No one available or we can attract’

 

Thats the crux. We’ve had two years essentially. Not sure that’s good enough considering the financial growth we’ve had and planning time 

[CosbehFox]

8 minutes ago, ItsLeo said:

Hakim Ziyech.

Not out of the question IMO - it would make sense that Ajax aren't willing to do business until the CL qualifiers are concluded or Ziyech can get them as far as possible before a transfer window. 

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, richardsfoxes said:

Big week for us next week, we'll find out if the club are serious about improving our position from last season or not (with who we sign and who we sell). 

I think perhaps the owners plans for improving our position are measured over a number years and not one season.

[richardsfoxes]

16 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I think perhaps the owners plans for improving our position are measured over a number years and not one season.

Depends, if you sell both of your highest valued assets in one window that is PR suicide in the footballing world, fans and potential prospects start asking questions regardless of the fee's received which could damage the plans put in place for the future, you've only got to look at Southampton to realise the effects. I am optimistic Maguire will stay, i'm just hoping something is done with regards to coming ins because although the signings we've made so far look good buys for the long term i just worry about the consistency we have on in terms of wingers. 

Edited 27 July 2018 by richardsfoxes

[Babylon]

Not sure if it was posted anywhere, but the Roma president said that Malcom turned us down to go to them (before Barca stepped in).

[FoxinNotts]

2 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Not sure if it was posted anywhere, but the Roma president said that Malcom turned us down to go to them (before Barca stepped in).

We should approach Bara, to see if he wants to come here on a season long loan 

[FirePower]

Westham have done great business and tbf they are in a position to be challenging for top 6. We will not be unfortunately I think this season our target must be between 10th + 14th.

Something needs to happen at our club we have let targets like yarmelenko and Anderson just go to west ham. Absolutely unreal.

 

How ever if we can get Ziyech the. I will be more than happy but not many others fit the bill.

 

Can see us getting Townsend or ayew and them trying to justify that's our option for the Mahrez void.

 

The start of the window looked so promising then nothing other than a 4th choice goalkeeprr. We need a key winger signing forget about the outgoings they can get loaned out spend some of that ****ing Mahrez money.