Train fare increase from 2019

[Guest]

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/jan/02/rail-fare-increases-prompt-protests-at-stations-across-uk

 

What's your thoughts on this? Surely, as public transport is massively encouraged, the government should be investing in this to cut down prices and improve the service, instead it's getting an increase, when the service that is provided is so incompetent already. Always delayed, cancelled and overcrowded. Impossible to find a seat half of the time, and more first class carriages then standard ones, which is pointless - because lets be honest, who has the money to pay for first class? 

 

Rather then spending money on pointless things like painting Buckingham Palace, and doing up the Queens 69 bedrooms, spend it on making it easier to get around the country for the working class people of Britain. Rant over. 

[foxfanazer]

As you say they should be charging less for what is often an appalling service. 

[ScouseFox]

no idea why anyone north of london would ever get on a train. it takes about 3 days to get from leeds to liverpool, it stinks of shit and you have to pay about 80 quid for the privelage. 

 

and thats one of the north’s more direct and 21st century lines. 

[Wolfox]

Glad my firm pay my train down to London as it’s a scandalous amount of money for a 100 mile trip

[Horibbly Wrong]

9 hours ago, Harrydc said:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/jan/02/rail-fare-increases-prompt-protests-at-stations-across-uk

 

What's your thoughts on this? Surely, as public transport is massively encouraged, the government should be investing in this to cut down prices and improve the service, instead it's getting an increase, when the service that is provided is so incompetent already. Always delayed, cancelled and overcrowded. Impossible to find a seat half of the time, and more first class carriages then standard ones, which is pointless - because lets be honest, who has the money to pay for first class? 

 

Rather then spending money on pointless things like painting Buckingham Palace, and doing up the Queens 69 bedrooms, spend it on making it easier to get around the country for the working class people of Britain. Rant over. 

The Government paying for things actually means the tax-paying population, so no, I don't want to subsidise this any more than I currently am

 

I have sympathies with train commuters though

[GeorgeTheFox]

When compared to some of the train systems in Europe we should be embarrassed

[RoboFox]

Rail services in the UK are a disgrace and a national embarrassment. Everyone knows it, yet nothing continues to be done.

 

Grayling is a c**t. Standard blame shifting to the trade unions, when it's Tory fare policies and a lack of regulation from central government of private companies which has caused this. The amount of money going to rail bosses and shareholders is absolutely scandalous.

 

We pay for Network Rail and the franchise fees are subsidised by the taxpayer anyway. The rest is pure profit driven by insatiable greed.

 

The system is f**ked and people suffer as a result.
 

 

[Guest MattP]

You can still find good value, I got to London first class and back in October for about £35 all in.

The on the day prices for long journeys are absolutely scandalous though, how some of them still don't turn in a profit I have no idea.

[Izzy]

Well I must be one of the lucky ones 

 

I sometimes get the train into Marylebone and it's great. Always on time, frequent, clean, space, no problem.

 

Costs about £40 return including underground which seems reasonably to me for an hour each way.

 

Beats driving, parking and all the hassle of getting into London. Let the train take the strain  

[Guest Kopfkino]

3 minutes ago, GeorgeTheFox said:

When compared to some of the train systems in Europe we should be embarrassed

 

3 minutes ago, RoboFox said:

Rail services in the UK are a disgrace and a national embarrassment. Everyone knows it, yet nothing continues to be done.

 

 

 

 

 

But yet according to Eurobarometer, the UK ranks 5th in Europe for satisfaction with the railways, the highest of any big country and way above France and Germany

[Guest MattP]

1 minute ago, Kopfkino said:

But yet according to Eurobarometer, the UK ranks 5th in Europe for satisfaction with the railways, the highest of any big country and way above France and Germany

We have this strange fantasy in the UK that the European networks are fantastic, probably because the routes we use as tourists are often the best ones.

I've used them in Germany and Italy and they were expensive, unclean and rarely on time.

[Guest MattP]

19 minutes ago, RoboFox said:

Rail services in the UK are a disgrace and a national embarrassment. Everyone knows it, yet nothing continues to be done.

 

Grayling is a c**t. Standard blame shifting to the trade unions, when it's Tory fare policies

Train fares in Wales and Merseyside are fully devolved to the local Labour authorities and they have implemented price rises along the same lines as the national average so it's not party political despite people like Corbyn's faux outrage over it.

 

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/exactly-how-much-you-pay-15528917

[Guest Kopfkino]

3 minutes ago, MattP said:

Train fares in Wales and Merseyside are fully devolved to the local Labour authorities and they have implemented price rises along the same lines as the national average so it's not party political despite people like Corbyn's faux outrage over it.

 

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/exactly-how-much-you-pay-15528917

 

Yeah but Grayling is a cvnt

[Babylon]

24 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

 

 

But yet according to Eurobarometer, the UK ranks 5th in Europe for satisfaction with the railways, the highest of any big country and way above France and Germany

Probably because we don't travel and have no idea how ****ing bad it actually is here.

 

Having recently been around Italy and Scandenavia I had zero problems, never had some dickhead sat in my seat. Never paid for first class to just get told there is no first class carriage. Never had to sit on the floor outside a toilet for 4 hours because the train is so ridiculously over crowded. I also never had to pay £100's to travel for an hour.

[Ric Flair]

Scandalous the Government are still contributing around £7 billion a year in to the railways and yet it's completely privatised. Superb work.

[leicsmac]

The trains - and public transport in general - over here put the UK to shame in terms of price, punctuality, efficiency and general cleanliness/looks, but then they had to build up their entire infrastructure from essentially nothing over the last half a century or so. Perhaps that's part of the problem with the UK's train network - the infrastructure is crumbling and rather than tear it all up and start again (which would admittedly be a nightmare) the powers that be simply just apply just enough maintenance to keep things going.

[rn9013]

53 minutes ago, RoboFox said:

Standard blame shifting to the trade unions, when it's Tory fare policies

In fairness, the government did recently attempt to change the way in which ticket price increases are calculated so that they went up in line with the lower CPI rate (which is by far the most common rate of measurement). However, this was blocked by unions because it would mean that wages would go up in line by the same figure (again bringing railway workers in line with most of the country). 

 

I'm obviously not saying the unions are to blame for all the issues with the railways, however in my experience (for example with the recent Northern strikes), they certainly don't help and often use the railways as a political football at the expense of the public. For example, here in Yorkshire the RMT are fast losing the sympathy of passengers as they continue to strike every Saturday despite Northern offering to guarantee every job and all pay. Northern, along with every other new franchise operator, are legally obliged to commit to driver operated doors on all new trains, there's nothing more they can do. 

[rn9013]

4 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Scandalous the Government are still contributing around £7 billion a year in to the railways and yet it's completely privatised. Superb work.

Agreed. I generally speaking don't agree with privatisation, but for me the railways is one of the exceptions. The government own the network, and therefore it makes no sense that they shouldn't own the rolling stock too, as it is this aspect that generates a profit! The example of the way in which the East Coast Mainline was run under public ownership should be used as a template going forward, with profits generated going back to the exchequer and used to invest in the network. 

[Guest Kopfkino]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Scandalous the Government are still contributing around £7 billion a year in to the railways and yet it's completely privatised. Superb work.

 

But it's not completely privatised. Of the £6.4bn the govt contributes (excluding loans), £4.2bn goes to Network Rail, a government organisation, and £2bn went to HS2, a government project.

[Jon the Hat]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

Well I must be one of the lucky ones 

 

I sometimes get the train into Marylebone and it's great. Always on time, frequent, clean, space, no problem.

 

Costs about £40 return including underground which seems reasonably to me for an hour each way.

 

Beats driving, parking and all the hassle of getting into London. Let the train take the strain  

Completely agree, my train from Horsham is about £42 a day, but a week ticket is £105, which is great value vs any alternative for an hour trip each way.  It is essentially perfect for the past 18 months barring a couple of engineering dramas out of their control, and I get a seat every day.

[Jon the Hat]

I also don't see why anyone else should subsidize my travel to work.

[rn9013]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

I also don't see why anyone else should subsidize my travel to work.

True. But then you could equally argue that if you commute to work by road you are subsidised by those that still pay for the roads even though they commute by train. General taxation comes with swings and round abouts surely. 

[Uranyl Yellow]

2 minutes ago, rn9013 said:

Agreed. I generally speaking don't agree with privatisation, but for me the railways is one of the exceptions. The government own the network, and therefore it makes no sense that they shouldn't own the rolling stock too, as it is this aspect that generates a profit! The example of the way in which the East Coast Mainline was run under public ownership should be used as a template going forward, with profits generated going back to the exchequer and used to invest in the network. 

It could potentially make a profit by charging its customers (the rail franchises) more to use the infrastructure, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out where the rail franchises will get this money from. It's largely the same with all the chuff around the compensation schemes for late/cancelled trains. Fundamentally, it's the customers who pay for the compensation for the crap services they receive. It's not just trains though. A few weeks back I had the misfortune of having some bright spark reverse into my car while it was parked in a car park, so I've had the dubious pleasure of using the buses for a while. Absolutely dire. Nearly six quid to travel to/from Leicester. One bus an hour (if you're lucky enough for them to turn up), and it takes the best part of an hour to travel seven miles. Of course people will always bang on about tax payers funding public transport, but ultimately it depends what the government wants. It drones on about cutting pollution, traffic, and people using public transport more, but I get the impression that somehow it's all going to happen magically if they spout on about it enough. Like all things, they want the benefits of public transport without having to pay for it. It aint gonna happen.

[davieG]

8 minutes ago, Uranyl Yellow said:

It could potentially make a profit by charging its customers (the rail franchises) more to use the infrastructure, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out where the rail franchises will get this money from. It's largely the same with all the chuff around the compensation schemes for late/cancelled trains. Fundamentally, it's the customers who pay for the compensation for the crap services they receive. It's not just trains though. A few weeks back I had the misfortune of having some bright spark reverse into my car while it was parked in a car park, so I've had the dubious pleasure of using the buses for a while. Absolutely dire. Nearly six quid to travel to/from Leicester. One bus an hour (if you're lucky enough for them to turn up), and it takes the best part of an hour to travel seven miles. Of course people will always bang on about tax payers funding public transport, but ultimately it depends what the government wants. It drones on about cutting pollution, traffic, and people using public transport more, but I get the impression that somehow it's all going to happen magically if they spout on about it enough. Like all things, they want the benefits of public transport without having to pay for it. It aint gonna happen.

There seems to never be any serious joined up thinking in government, individual departments are just that individual, No one seems to look at the wider impact either good or bad it's like not just the money being ring fenced but the thought behind any initiative is also ring fenced to the particular department.

 

Public money spent on transport could improve the health of the nation and reduce the costs of the NHS - maybe?

 

It's like Soulsby pushing more and more bus lanes with no control over the buses that run down them thus causing jams and pollution with no appreciable improvement in the bus system, prices going up and routes/timetables being cut.

 

 

[Jon the Hat]

26 minutes ago, rn9013 said:

True. But then you could equally argue that if you commute to work by road you are subsidised by those that still pay for the roads even though they commute by train. General taxation comes with swings and round abouts surely. 

The cost of roads is more than covered by road fund license and fuel duty, so it is not really true to say general taxation pays for roads.