Alf Bentley Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, MattP said: Surprised he's not joining TIG as he has all the attributes to do so. I do wonder if the public reaction has played any part, Soubry got battered on LBC yesterday and Leslie got a rough ride on QT - they are already seen by many as being undemocratic and not holding by-elections hasn't helped that. We also had the ridiculous scene of Soubry standing on a stage defending the coalition and Gideons austerity policy - surely any Labour waverers would have had their head in their hands listening to that. The problem with Soubry for a project like this is she's economically a Thatcherite conservative. When all the dust settles I do fear this lot will sit down to discuss policy and realise the only thing they actually have in common is they all hate Brexit and want it reversed. He seems to come from a very different place politically from the other Labour defectors - particularly re. Brexit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Austin_(politician)#Brexit "Austin was one of the first Labour MPs to call for an in/out referendum on the UK's membership of the EU. Austin was one of only three Labour MPs to vote for Theresa May's Brexit deal in the 15 January 2019 Meaningful vote (along with Kevin Barron and John Mann). In the same series of votes, Austin was one of 14 Labour MPs who voted against his colleague Yvette Cooper's amendment, which was designed to prevent a no-deal Brexit by extending the article 50 negotiating period." Edited 22 February 2019 by Alf Bentley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 8 minutes ago, FIF said: Which isn't a problem is it? Then they can go whichever way they choose individually. The point they are making at the moment is that their parties are a mess - and that's true. Well it's not a problem now but this could be a dead issue within weeks and we already have the Lib Dems as the anti-Brexit party. But how is a party that has Gavin Shukar and Anna Soubry in it going to arrive at a policy on economics? It's almost impossible - the opinions are only going to get more diverse as well you would assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 3 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: He seems to come from a very different place politically from the other Labour defectors - particularly re. Brexit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Austin_(politician)#Brexit "Austin was one of the first Labour MPs to call for an in/out referendum on the UK's membership of the EU. Austin was one of only three Labour MPs to vote for Theresa May's Brexit deal in the 15 January 2019 Meaningful vote (along with Kevin Barron and John Mann). In the same series of votes, Austin was one of 14 Labour MPs who voted against his colleague Yvette Cooper's amendment, which was designed to prevent a no-deal Brexit by extending the article 50 negotiating period." I'm getting him confused with someone else - apologies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 After all the dust has settled on Brexit it'll be back to the 2 party system and the usual minority parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 2 minutes ago, MattP said: Well it's not a problem now but this could be a dead issue within weeks and we already have the Lib Dems as the anti-Brexit party. But how is a party that has Gavin Shukar and Anna Soubry in it going to arrive at a policy on economics? It's almost impossible - the opinions are only going to get more diverse as well you would assume. I don't disagree with you on either point. I still think there is merit to this departure. In reality there is probably more similarity between the views of these independents than there is between them and many in their respective previous parties. I guess I feel that politics is better served by independent MPs working together in flexible groupings rather than the follow the party line setup. I'd like to see no more fixed parties and all mps as independents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 The common reason for their deflection is, as they state, they want a second referendum. They want a second referendum because they believe that at the point of casting their vote, the public were not informed or aware where it would lead. I don’t agree but it’s a fair point. So why are they not holding by-elections? You can make the same case for their own constituents now? They really aren’t doing their cause any justice by not holding themselves to the values they expected from the parties they depart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechey Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 A kinder, gentler politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 2 minutes ago, Beechey said: A kinder, gentler politics. I’m not sure what’s wrong with that statement. It’s a bit bitter but the points he raises are true are they not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 9 minutes ago, Strokes said: I’m not sure what’s wrong with that statement. It’s a bit bitter but the points he raises are true are they not? A lot of is on point but the line of his frequent ill-tempered outbursts embarrassing Labour is hilarious given Williamson embarrasses Labour almost every time he opens his mouth. This is a bloke who still backed Pete Willsman after his antisemitic outburst for the NEC and still supports the Maduro regime in Venezuela, if the Labour party was still normal he would have had the whip withdrawn ages ago. He seems to be a pretty horrible person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechey Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Strokes said: I’m not sure what’s wrong with that statement. It’s a bit bitter but the points he raises are true are they not? It's the fact it's bitter, mean spirited and ill-tempered, and not at all "kinder", nor "gentler". It almost reads like a tantrum. Genuinely embarrassing that the only thing an elected MP to our highest level of legislature can do is vomit hatred and disdain onto Facebook. Edited 22 February 2019 by Beechey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 Just now, Beechey said: It's the fact it's bitter, mean spirited and ill-tempered, and not at all "kinder", nor "gentler". It almost reads like a tantrum. It is a tantrum, one of the good things about this is all the right people are going nuts, Owen Jones and Paul Mason have lost their minds on Twitter, the former even now resorting to the argument (in video form) that Corbyn represents public opinion and the centre ground on the same day as he called for the Jihadi bride to return. Priceless. But surely even the most sycophantic tribal Corbynista doesn't still believe the "kinder, gentler politics" line after what we have seen over the last couple of years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechey Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 1 minute ago, MattP said: It is a tantrum, one of the good things about this is all the right people are going nuts, Owen Jones and Paul Mason have lost their minds on Twitter, the former even now resorting to the argument (in video form) that Corbyn represents public opinion and the centre ground on the same day as he called for the Jihadi bride to return. Priceless. But surely even the most sycophantic tribal Corbynista doesn't still believe the "kinder, gentler politics" line after what we have seen over the last couple of years? I'm loving Owen Jones' meltdowns. He would have fallen on his sword for these people one week ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Beechey said: I'm loving Owen Jones' meltdowns. He would have fallen on his sword for these people one week ago. He's gone totally nuts, he must have tweeted about TIG yesterday more times than the Tories all these years. I wonder why all these guys like Chris Williamson were never so vocal about MP's like Corbyn and McDonnell getting elected to landslide governments on the slate of Tony Blair? For some reason it only seems to bother them now. Edited 22 February 2019 by MattP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 25 minutes ago, MattP said: A lot of is on point but the line of his frequent ill-tempered outbursts embarrassing Labour is hilarious given Williamson embarrasses Labour almost every time he opens his mouth. This is a bloke who still backed Pete Willsman after his antisemitic outburst for the NEC and still supports the Maduro regime in Venezuela, if the Labour party was still normal he would have had the whip withdrawn ages ago. He seems to be a pretty horrible person. To be a hypocrite seems to be a prerequisite of becoming a politician these days. The point he makes about fighting the election under false pretence is valid though and one I often charge vocal remainers in the conservative party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 6 minutes ago, MattP said: He's gone totally nuts, he must have tweeted about TIG yesterday more times than the Tories all these years. I wonder why all these guys like Chris Williamson were never so vocal about MP's like Corbyn and McDonnell getting elected to landslide governments on the slate of Tony Blair? For some reason it only seems to bother them now. Fair point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
String fellow Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 Who'll be the first Leicestershire MP to join TIG? My money is on Nicky Morgan. Will TIG weld the centre ground in Westminster? Well, maybe their first move should be to decide on a more catchy name. I suggest an anagram of Con + Lab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 4 minutes ago, String fellow said: Who'll be the first Leicestershire MP to join TIG? My money is on Nicky Morgan. Will TIG weld the centre ground in Westminster? Well, maybe their first move should be to decide on a more catchy name. I suggest an anagram of Con + Lab. ConFlab the F being a nod to being inclusive of Females. Conflab another term for Confab. Definition of confab in English: confab NOUN informal 1An informal private conversation or discussion. ‘the men clustered together for a quick confab’ More example sentences Synonyms 1.1North American A meeting or conference of members of a particular group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 4 minutes ago, davieG said: ConFlab the F being a nod to being inclusive of Females. Conflab another term for Confab. Very creative, Davie. Unfortunate connotations of dishonesty and obesity, however..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 24 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: Very creative, Davie. Unfortunate connotations of dishonesty and obesity, however..... Only for those that are obese and deny it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guvnor Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 1 hour ago, String fellow said: Who'll be the first Leicestershire MP to join TIG? My money is on Nicky Morgan. Will TIG weld the centre ground in Westminster? Well, maybe their first move should be to decide on a more catchy name. I suggest an anagram of Con + Lab. How about being honest and call themselves The Stop Brexit Party because that's what this split is all about. And in a few weeks time they could all become irrelevant anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 6 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said: Finally come full circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxlong Posted 22 February 2019 Share Posted 22 February 2019 35 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said: #hetoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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