Also in the news

[Alf Bentley]

In further political fiasco news, I see that an 8th Labour MP (Joan Ryan), Chair of Labour Friends of Israel, has joined this new independent group - reportedly after Corbyn took an intransigent attitude at a meeting.

 

Reports that 3 Tories (Soubry, Allen & Wollaston) will defect tomorrow morning. Interesting, if true, but I'm still not sure this is going to "break the mould of politics" as the SDP said they were going to do.

I don't see any sign that large numbers of voters are yearning for a new centre party. Maybe that will change after Brexit, but more likely we'll see further polarisation with Labour and Tories becoming more left and right-wing, respectively - and more voters disillusioned with politics or even switching to extremist groups like the new BNP-style UKIP.

 

What this new group could do, even if it only gains 5-10% support, is tilt the electoral playing field in favour of the Tories. I'm guessing that its support will come much more from Labour / Lib Dems, less from the Tories (unless the Tories get collared for a big Brexit backlash)...might be wrong about that. In the short-term, the impact of this group could be to help a Hard Right Tory Govt gain power and stay there with a majority for a number of years post-Brexit....

 

Sounds like Tory leadership candidates are on manoeuvres - and, if Brexit does happen in March or even in June/July, I presume we could be just a few months away from May getting the boot - and probably being replaced by a right-winger or a pragmatist who feels obliged to appeal to the Right.

[leicsmac]

11 minutes ago, tom27111 said:

Can't believe some people would welcome her back to the country!

 

F**k the legalities.

 

 

Quite.

 

What does legality mean, anyway? Just words on paper, right?

 

You've said pretty much all I want to say on the topic @Kopfkino but I'm afraid the events of 2016 and since have shown pretty clearly there is no such thing as international obligation or cooperation any more, at least among the big players. Nationalism is back with a bang and all it entails, apparently - or maybe it never left.

[urban.spaceman]

2 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

In further political fiasco news, I see that an 8th Labour MP (Joan Ryan), Chair of Labour Friends of Israel, has joined this new independent group - reportedly after Corbyn took an intransigent attitude at a meeting.

[Guest ttfn]

Jonah Ryan 2026!

 

That’s a mid-term Jonah.

 

Then I’ll change it!

[Salisbury Fox]

7 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

Eh? So effectively the Home Secretary has to revoke a citizen's rights cos he can't trust the intelligence services that work for him not to **** up? That's essentially the logic of the second paragraph.

 

I don't get why we should be able to just dump our citizens on the rest of the world when we decide we don't want them?

At the time of the Manchester bombing it was thought that there were 20000 people of interest in the country with a further 3000 actively being investigated and so I don't think we can rely on the security services to get it right every time.   The saying that they only have to be lucky once whilst we have to be lucky always is still true today.

 

I suppose that is the danger of having duel nationality, although I suspect that the legal challenge in this case may be successful, especially from the child's perspective.  An advantage of this approach is that it could act as a deterrent for those who take a similar path in the future.

[Innovindil]

Can't wait to see the next interview. Hopefully they ask her if she has any regrets now she knows the usually soft touch British government won't swoop in to save her and have pretty much said FOAD. 

 

Should be giggles. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

Won't expect many people in the country to care cos of the specifics of the case but really people should be concerned about the government declaring its power to unilaterally revoke the rights of one of its citizens. Shameful of the UK to just think it can wash its hands of a problem rather than deal with it properly. 

 

9 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

 

No revoking citizenship and offloading her onto somewhere else is not dealing with it properly. She's our problem ffs, she's lived all her life here, she was radicalised here. Her completely innocent child is a British citizen too. That's before even thinking about how it might be wrong to just revoke citizenship of someone that is a dual national by chance rather than their choice, as is the case here.

 

Of course its a superb solution for a Home Secretary playing perfect politics to help his party leadership bid and a great solution for a self-obsessed, increasingly inward-looking country that's evidently uninterested in some of its obligations to the international community. 

I sympathise with your general view but if we can accept that people can be nationals of 2 countries - which is really quite bizarre - we have to accept that a country can remove that nationality. People take on 2 nationalities to benefit from the fact. As long as the person isn't stateless then I have no problem.

 

If she had returned then I think she would have need to have ben isolated and "re-educated" both of which I disagree with in principle but understand the necessity for. The child would have become motherless and probably radicalised anyway. 

 

This reinforces my belief that people should not have the "Right" to give birth - yeah, I know not very liberal, in fact downright scary - but life is something that none of us request and yet the people responsible for are rarely responsible nor take responsibility. 

[Guest MattP]

8 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

Call me a cynic but I'm sure it was an easy decision for him - win-win - he either succeeds or the courts rule against him and he can do a bit more politics. The UK's rule of law is sacrosanct, it's what sets civilised societies apart, so a HS shouldn't just be able to, on a political whim, revoke a citizen's rights, and if she can get back she should be put straight into handcuffs and put on trial (It shows our treason laws need updating actually).

 

Eh? So effectively the Home Secretary has to revoke a citizen's rights cos he can't trust the intelligence services that work for him not to **** up? That's essentially the logic of the second paragraph.

 

I don't get why we should be able to just dump our citizens on the rest of the world when we decide we don't want them?

 

It feels awful to be in a position where it feels like I'm defending her. But I can't look past the dangerous precedent for government power that moves like this set. She could be deradicalised and rehabilitated but instead this condemns her to whatever life, possibly remaining in the area to join another terror network and posing a danger to the locals. There's also the fact that she could be a source of valuable information and improve our understanding of the grooming and radicalisation process. And also that this is just the UK washing its hands of a problem that is as much the UK's as anyones and probably leads to a situation where the burden is put onto Syria's neighbours like Lebanon.

First of all I certainly haven't took it as you defending her (or anyone else for that matter), I see you as a defender of British law and values and that's extremely honourable. We just disagree on the decision by those in office on this subject.

It's rare, but not unprecedented for us to change our values and laws in a time of crisis and our system has always survived that given that it's used rarely and sensibly, the most obvious example being the introduction of ID cards in WW2.

I take the point about us dumping our citizens on the World, but the reality of this is we did that a few years ago when hundreds of our citizens decided to go out and fight for IS and we didn't even have laws or procedure in place that could stop that happening, that's was our real neglect of our responsibilities to the World.
 

I do think unless we change this, we'll lose all the things that you speak of because the public simply won't just tolerate bringing people back into the country whose intention is to kill us, International law needs to be modernised for conflicts like this as another ISIS will pop up again eventually, the only logical solution is surely to hand them over to the state they were actually involved in - we can't have civil war tourism.
 

6 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

In further political fiasco news, I see that an 8th Labour MP (Joan Ryan), Chair of Labour Friends of Israel, has joined this new independent group - reportedly after Corbyn took an intransigent attitude at a meeting.

 

Reports that 3 Tories (Soubry, Allen & Wollaston) will defect tomorrow morning. Interesting, if true, but I'm still not sure this is going to "break the mould of politics" as the SDP said they were going to do.

I don't see any sign that large numbers of voters are yearning for a new centre party. Maybe that will change after Brexit, but more likely we'll see further polarisation with Labour and Tories becoming more left and right-wing, respectively - and more voters disillusioned with politics or even switching to extremist groups like the new BNP-style UKIP.

 

What this new group could do, even if it only gains 5-10% support, is tilt the electoral playing field in favour of the Tories. I'm guessing that its support will come much more from Labour / Lib Dems, less from the Tories (unless the Tories get collared for a big Brexit backlash)...might be wrong about that. In the short-term, the impact of this group could be to help a Hard Right Tory Govt gain power and stay there with a majority for a number of years post-Brexit....

 

Sounds like Tory leadership candidates are on manoeuvres - and, if Brexit does happen in March or even in June/July, I presume we could be just a few months away from May getting the boot - and probably being replaced by a right-winger or a pragmatist who feels obliged to appeal to the Right.

Did she really expect anything else from Corbyn? I'm sure he's delighted to get rid of her. It's got beyond ridiculous listening to people like McDonnell now, coming onto Marr and talking about how open they want to be and intending to listen, then as soon as he goes to another interview he's asking for the Jew to take a loyalty oath to the leader  https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/08/labour-withdraws-luciana-berger-mp-no-confidence-motion It would play better if she just called them Tory bastards and waved them goodbye which is I'm sure what he reallt thinks.

I fully agree with you on this not breaking the mould anytime soon, the biggest problem is that it's not a centrist party - it's another Remain party, so far we have 7 second referendum advocates, one who openly wants to reverse Brexit and the three being talked about coming in from the Conservatives who are another three second referendum advocates, do they really think the public aren't going to see this?

Even the Greens have a Brexiteer in Jenny Jones, the Lib Dems have one in Stephen Lloyd, the idea of a centrist party is surely appealing to everyone - not just 48% of the population.
 

4 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

They just don't even care anymore do they? They are enjoying turning into a antisemitic left wing mob.

Add to this, way -
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/19/labour-mp-ruth-george-israel-funding-independent-group-luciana-berger
 

Quote

 

A Labour MP has apologised for suggesting Israel could be secretly funding Luciana Berger and other MPs who quit the party on Monday citing unhappiness with Labour’s approach to tackling complaints of antisemitism.

Ruth George, the MP for High Peak, withdrew the comment and said she had no intention of invoking a conspiracy theory, when she responded to someone asking whether it was appropriate to say the seven departing MPs were “Israelis”.

The MP had written on Facebook: “Support from the State of Israel, which supports both Conservative and Labour ‘Friends of Israel’, of which Luciana [Berger] was chair, is possible and I would not condemn those who suggest it, especially when the group’s financial backers are not being revealed.

 

What would even make you say that, let alone write it down? Well we know why, these sort of conspiracy theories are now normal in that party.

 

[MC Prussian]

Well, in the current political climate, what we see is the classic case of the Left eating itself.

[Guest]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-47201828

 

I don't understand how the convicted sex felon is allowed to continue at the school after his conviction and I worry at the signals this gives every other "lad" and girl of school age. If kids are not safe within school grounds then our society has a major problem. In every case the victim should be the priority before we start to concern ourself with the assailant, however important that may be.

[Voll Blau]

3 hours ago, ttfn said:

Jonah Ryan 2026!

 

That’s a mid-term Jonah.

 

Then I’ll change it!

I think he's one of my top 10 favourite sitcom characters ever.

[Alf Bentley]

17 minutes ago, MattP said:

 

Did she really expect anything else from Corbyn? I'm sure he's delighted to get rid of her. It's got beyond ridiculous listening to people like McDonnell now, coming onto Marr and talking about how open they want to be and intending to listen, then as soon as he goes to another interview he's asking for the Jew to take a loyalty oath to the leader  https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/08/labour-withdraws-luciana-berger-mp-no-confidence-motion It would play better if she just called them Tory bastards and waved them goodbye which is I'm sure what he reallt thinks.

I fully agree with you on this not breaking the mould anytime soon, the biggest problem is that it's not a centrist party - it's another Remain party, so far we have 7 second referendum advocates, one who openly wants to reverse Brexit and the three being talked about coming in from the Conservatives who are another three second referendum advocates, do they really think the public aren't going to see this?

Even the Greens have a Brexiteer in Jenny Jones, the Lib Dems have one in Stephen Lloyd, the idea of a centrist party is surely appealing to everyone - not just 48% of the population.
 

 

I've no time for anyone whose focus, at a time of national crisis, is on attacking other Labour Party factions or bullying MPs for "disloyalty" to the "great leader". There's a massive irony here in that Corbyn spent decades criticising the Labour leadership under Kinnock, Blair, Brown etc. Labour is a broad church where, within reason, a range of opinions should be accepted - and it's clear that there's a range of opinions on Brexit and other issues, as there is in the Tory Party. That should be resolved through political debate and party votes, not vendettas. There's long been a particular problem in Liverpool with extremist factions like Militant, so the party needs to bear down on divisive idiots - and the return of the scumbag Hatton ain't a good sign.

 

To clarify re. McDonnell: He didn't say Berger should take a loyalty oath to the leader. He suggested that she could deny rumours that she planned to leave the party (she's now left) - and that was 10-12 days ago, long BEFORE he went on Marr or made his comments yesterday about intending to listen. I do think there's a difference of approach between Corbyn and McDonnell, who is less keen on rigid ideology or rigid loyalty and more tolerant of diverse views. That may prove merely to be different tactics by McDonnell, in which case he'll deserve the criticism that Corbyn deserves now - but that's not the case yet.

 

Stephen Lloyd is an Independent now - resigned the Lib Dem whip due to his disagreement with their Remain stance. Under a different voting system, there could be multiple parties, maybe Centrist Remain and Centrist Leave or Moderate Tory and Moderate Labour, but our voting system makes it near impossible for a single third party to make a breakthrough, never mind several parties - and this would be a strange time to establish a Centre Party with both Remain and Leave MPs - later, maybe.

 

Although all the 8 MPs who've left Labour are Remainers (I think), they've clearly got other arguments with Corbyn, not least over anti-semitism and tolerance of dissent. Who knows where this independent grouping will go, particularly if a few Tories join them or if a lot more quit Labour? I know the likes of Umunna and Soubry have worked together on Remain issues, but have they got enough in common to be in the same party?

 

I just don't see much public demand for a centre party - yet. Maybe, if Brexit proves disastrous, there might be a Macron-type upsurge. But to get MPs, any party has to poll 30% minimum, at least in some areas. The SDP won a few seats in 1983 but only a few (6?) - and they won about 22% of the national vote, standing in half the constituencies, and had been polling 50% nationally at one point. No sign of this group getting anywhere near that yet - and the electorate seems more polarised now. In the early 80s, a lot of voters actively wanted a new moderate party - not so now. Likewise, UKIP got 12.6% of the national vote (15% in England?) in 2015....but no MPs, apart from Carswell, an ex-Tory MP with local loyalty.

[urban.spaceman]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

First of all I certainly haven't took it as you defending her (or anyone else for that matter), I see you as a defender of British law and values and that's extremely honourable. We just disagree on the decision by those in office on this subject.

It's rare, but not unprecedented for us to change our values and laws in a time of crisis and our system has always survived that given that it's used rarely and sensibly, the most obvious example being the introduction of ID cards in WW2.

I take the point about us dumping our citizens on the World, but the reality of this is we did that a few years ago when hundreds of our citizens decided to go out and fight for IS and we didn't even have laws or procedure in place that could stop that happening, that's was our real neglect of our responsibilities to the World.
 

I do think unless we change this, we'll lose all the things that you speak of because the public simply won't just tolerate bringing people back into the country whose intention is to kill us, International law needs to be modernised for conflicts like this as another ISIS will pop up again eventually, the only logical solution is surely to hand them over to the state they were actually involved in - we can't have civil war tourism.
 

Did she really expect anything else from Corbyn? I'm sure he's delighted to get rid of her. It's got beyond ridiculous listening to people like McDonnell now, coming onto Marr and talking about how open they want to be and intending to listen, then as soon as he goes to another interview he's asking for the Jew to take a loyalty oath to the leader  https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/08/labour-withdraws-luciana-berger-mp-no-confidence-motion It would play better if she just called them Tory bastards and waved them goodbye which is I'm sure what he reallt thinks.

I fully agree with you on this not breaking the mould anytime soon, the biggest problem is that it's not a centrist party - it's another Remain party, so far we have 7 second referendum advocates, one who openly wants to reverse Brexit and the three being talked about coming in from the Conservatives who are another three second referendum advocates, do they really think the public aren't going to see this?

Even the Greens have a Brexiteer in Jenny Jones, the Lib Dems have one in Stephen Lloyd, the idea of a centrist party is surely appealing to everyone - not just 48% of the population.
 

They just don't even care anymore do they? They are enjoying turning into a antisemitic left wing mob.

Add to this, way -
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/19/labour-mp-ruth-george-israel-funding-independent-group-luciana-berger
 

What would even make you say that, let alone write it down? Well we know why, these sort of conspiracy theories are now normal in that party.

 

I continue to be utterly baffled by the obsession with Jews and Israel vs Palestine. 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I've no time for anyone whose focus, at a time of national crisis, is on attacking other Labour Party factions or bullying MPs for "disloyalty" to the "great leader". There's a massive irony here in that Corbyn spent decades criticising the Labour leadership under Kinnock, Blair, Brown etc. Labour is a broad church where, within reason, a range of opinions should be accepted - and it's clear that there's a range of opinions on Brexit and other issues, as there is in the Tory Party. That should be resolved through political debate and party votes, not vendettas. There's long been a particular problem in Liverpool with extremist factions like Militant, so the party needs to bear down on divisive idiots - and the return of the scumbag Hatton ain't a good sign.

 

To clarify re. McDonnell: He didn't say Berger should take a loyalty oath to the leader. He suggested that she could deny rumours that she planned to leave the party (she's now left) - and that was 10-12 days ago, long BEFORE he went on Marr or made his comments yesterday about intending to listen. I do think there's a difference of approach between Corbyn and McDonnell, who is less keen on rigid ideology or rigid loyalty and more tolerant of diverse views. That may prove merely to be different tactics by McDonnell, in which case he'll deserve the criticism that Corbyn deserves now - but that's not the case yet.

 

Stephen Lloyd is an Independent now - resigned the Lib Dem whip due to his disagreement with their Remain stance. Under a different voting system, there could be multiple parties, maybe Centrist Remain and Centrist Leave or Moderate Tory and Moderate Labour, but our voting system makes it near impossible for a single third party to make a breakthrough, never mind several parties - and this would be a strange time to establish a Centre Party with both Remain and Leave MPs - later, maybe.

 

Although all the 8 MPs who've left Labour are Remainers (I think), they've clearly got other arguments with Corbyn, not least over anti-semitism and tolerance of dissent. Who knows where this independent grouping will go, particularly if a few Tories join them or if a lot more quit Labour? I know the likes of Umunna and Soubry have worked together on Remain issues, but have they got enough in common to be in the same party?

 

I just don't see much public demand for a centre party - yet. Maybe, if Brexit proves disastrous, there might be a Macron-type upsurge. But to get MPs, any party has to poll 30% minimum, at least in some areas. The SDP won a few seats in 1983 but only a few (6?) - and they won about 22% of the national vote, standing in half the constituencies, and had been polling 50% nationally at one point. No sign of this group getting anywhere near that yet - and the electorate seems more polarised now. In the early 80s, a lot of voters actively wanted a new moderate party - not so now. Likewise, UKIP got 12.6% of the national vote (15% in England?) in 2015....but no MPs, apart from Carswell, an ex-Tory MP with local loyalty.

I see what you're saying about a centrist party and I've been out of England for too long to have any finger on the pulse there. I find it pretty sad though. I love the UK for it's inclusional and centrist ideologies and policies. I hate the fact that the people may be moving to extremes.

 

Do you really think that is the case? Do the people believe these extremist views or are the majority so disillusioned with politicians and politics that they are simply moving away from politics and the small groups of extremists are gaining control?

 

I'm hoping that Centrist politics can re-connect with people. I am shocked with the Lib Dems backward charge, especially considering they were doing so well until the Liberal/Tory coalition ( where obviously some of their beliefs had to be put on the backburner). I had hoped that this was just annoyance with the Lib Dems and their new leadership and not with reasonable, considered centrist ideas.

 

First past the post, big party funding is finally (?) working against the interest of democracy and the UK. This was sure to happen as it is really a capiltalist idea and we have become great and efficient capitalists. However there is no way that the voting and funding system is going to change in the near future.

 

I'm more worried about extremist UK politics than I am about Brexit - and that is worrying enough.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

I continue to be utterly baffled by the obsession with Jews and Israel vs Palestine. 

Me too (no hash tag). 

 

Why don't the Labour Party concentrate on what is good for the British people and worry less about international politics at this precarious time in the UK's history. Are Labour fiddling whilst London burns?

[Innovindil]

42 minutes ago, FIF said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-47201828

 

I don't understand how the convicted sex felon is allowed to continue at the school after his conviction and I worry at the signals this gives every other "lad" and girl of school age. If kids are not safe within school grounds then our society has a major problem. In every case the victim should be the priority before we start to concern ourself with the assailant, however important that may be.

Totally ****ed up. A criminal conviction of this magnetude should equal automatic expulsion imo. How can she possibly feel safe there now. 

[Innovindil]

18 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

I continue to be utterly baffled by the obsession with Jews and Israel vs Palestine. 

Been saying the same thing for years. Out of all the political points that will effect my vote, the stance on Israel v Palestine ranks about 9billionth. Yet we hear about it every week. 

 

As far as I'm concerned, it has nothing to do with us at all. If they both want to kill each other leave them to it. 

[Guest Kopfkino]

I didn't realise it was a decision based on the fact she could become a Bangladeshi national rather than that she already has citizenship. Couldn't possibly think of a way this precedent could be really abused (Israel's Law of Return).

[Alf Bentley]

7 minutes ago, FIF said:

I see what you're saying about a centrist party and I've been out of England for too long to have any finger on the pulse there. I find it pretty sad though. I love the UK for it's inclusional and centrist ideologies and policies. I hate the fact that the people may be moving to extremes.

 

Do you really think that is the case? Do the people believe these extremist views or are the majority so disillusioned with politicians and politics that they are simply moving away from politics and the small groups of extremists are gaining control?

 

I'm hoping that Centrist politics can re-connect with people. I am shocked with the Lib Dems backward charge, especially considering they were doing so well until the Liberal/Tory coalition ( where obviously some of their beliefs had to be put on the backburner). I had hoped that this was just annoyance with the Lib Dems and their new leadership and not with reasonable, considered centrist ideas.

 

First past the post, big party funding is finally (?) working against the interest of democracy and the UK. This was sure to happen as it is really a capiltalist idea and we have become great and efficient capitalists. However there is no way that the voting and funding system is going to change in the near future.

 

I'm more worried about extremist UK politics than I am about Brexit - and that is worrying enough.

 

I shouldn't overstate the case. I'm partly concerned about the direction of travel - politics becoming more extreme in future. Support for seriously nasty groups like the EDL or even the new UKIP (which has become BNP-like) is still small, if growing. But I'm concerned that all the mayhem from a chaotic Brexit and/or economic problems will feed into that, increasing it.

 

Both main parties have become more extreme, though within democratic bounds: strong Hard Left influence/control over Labour is well documented, but there's also a big influx of ex-UKIP members into the Tory Party, which gets less publicity.

Instead of having 2 broad churches, we almost have the 2 main parties controlled by Bennites and UKIP types (at local/membership level, with growing influence on national politicians). The Lib Dems are a non-story - which itself should be more of a story, given that they have the "moderate, pro-Remain" field almost to themselves....hence, partly, why I don't see this centre party taking off, unless something really transforms British politics. Of course, Brexit might do just that - but I'd expect it to lead to more polarisation, not more centrism. I might be wrong.

 

There are also an increasing number of people feeling alienated from all politics - and clueless about Brexit, not just pro/anti. Contempt for democratic politics is increasing....very dangerous at times like these, with potential Brexit disruption, potential economic downturn here and abroad, migration, Islamic extremism, Trump, Putin, unpopular EU etc. etc.....not to mention underlying issues like global shifts in manufacturing, aging population, climate change. I'm a natural optimist/realist, but I've never in my life felt more pessimistic about where we're heading in the UK (and possibly in Europe/globally).

 

First Past The Post is seen as a minority issue but it's becoming increasingly damaging. It gave us Blair's landslides (and arguably the Iraq War), Tory austerity and Brexit. If there's an election any time soon, it might well give the Tories, under a Hard Right leadership, a large majority on a reduced share of the vote, due to Corbyn's unpopularity and splits on the centre-left (partly why I think these defectors should have stayed in the party and fought their corner). I hold New Labour in contempt for their backsliding on electoral reform once they gained unfettered power. I lobbied my MP about this in 2000. He said that First Past The Post gives us strong government.....I wonder if he still thinks that?

 

I agree with most of what you've said - particularly the 2nd and 4th paragraphs.

 

 

5 minutes ago, FIF said:

Me too (no hash tag). 

 

Why don't the Labour Party concentrate on what is good for the British people and worry less about international politics at this precarious time in the UK's history. Are Labour fiddling whilst London burns?

 

Agreed. Though, to be fair, most of the international politics stuff is being led by the grassroots - local Hard Left activists and naive people with lists of right-on demands - not by the leadership.

 

Whatever you might think of McDonnell's economic plans or Labour's convoluted fence-sitting on Brexit (and I see a lot of merit in both, within reason), that's what the leadership is concentrating on.

But idiots outside the leadership, mainly at local level, are engaging in all this factionalism, extremist wish lists, even anti-semitism in some cases - and the leadership has failed to clamp down on it.

[yorkie1999]

33 minutes ago, FIF said:

Me too (no hash tag). 

 

Why don't the Labour Party concentrate on what is good for the British people and worry less about international politics at this precarious time in the UK's history. Are Labour fiddling whilst London burns?

Because it's far easier to solve other peoples problems than your own. To solve other peoples problems all you need to do is talk about them, to solve your own problems you have to actually do something.

[Beechey]

I don't know about you lot, but I was getting bored of Brexit, having a new political drama is quite nice.

[Carl the Llama]

It's no wonder we never get good satirical tv shows anymore. How do you write something more farcical than contemporary irl politics?

[ealingfox]

I don't really understand what's going on with this Begum. How did she get discovered and get this publicity in the first place? Her situation can't be that perilous if she's got this repeated access to interviews and a platform. Why does she keep getting air time? I don't really give a toss about what she has to say and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

I'd like the relevant laws to be upheld and the decision carried out, whether that means coming back here and facing justice or being told to do one, but does she have to be given this media attention whilst it goes on?

 

Such is the state of our tabloid culture these days I'm half-tempted to go round all the bookies and see what odds they'll give me on her appearing on a reality tv show within the next 3 years.

[Beechey]

Hm, I was under the impression she was a dual national, yet I've just read on the BBC the government justified its stance because she's eligible for another citizenship elsewhere. If it's the case that we've stripped her of citizenship and she's now stateless, because she might be able to gain another passport, I'm not a fan of that at all. Apparently her husband is Dutch, as well. So she could get a Dutch or Bangladeshi passport.

[Beechey]