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[bovril]

37 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

I missed the whole campaign as I was out of the country. And that’s been my whole issue with the referendum to begin with - I was only abroad for 6 months but for such a huge colossal decision Cameron essentially called a snap referendum with 4 months of debates and created a situation whereby absolutely everyone on all sides could make any claim or promise they wanted but not a single one of them were accountable for it nor were even in any power to see it through if their side won.

 

The result can’t be reversed because the ballot paper promised it would be implemented and neither did it imply that there would be a second referendum afterwards just in case.

 

Cameron and his aides have royally ****ed this up for the whole country and should be held accountable for it.

 

And the only person who has actually pointed this out is Danny ****ing Dyer.

No, I don't agree. I don't agree with the simple line of "Cameron is an idiot and it's all his fault, and there were lies on both sides do don't blame me". 

People bought into the idea that we are Britain, so we can get whatever we want. This idea has no basis in reality. Politicians compounded this by suicidally voting to send the Article 50 notification. I think it could've been avoided if people had called out the obvious lies earlier, but they didn't, so here we are. 

Sooner or later people need move beyond just blaming Cameron.

Edited 26 February 2019 by bovril

[Leicester_Loyal]

Mays deal will end up getting voted through now she's threatened No Brexit. Even the option of remaining is proof that democracy in this country is dead and they're expecting people to just sit down and take it.

[Kopfkino]

17 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

I missed the whole campaign as I was out of the country. And that’s been my whole issue with the referendum to begin with - I was only abroad for 6 months but for such a huge colossal decision Cameron essentially called a snap referendum with 4 months of debates and created a situation whereby absolutely everyone on all sides could make any claim or promise they wanted but not a single one of them were accountable for it nor were even in any power to see it through if their side won.

 

The result can’t be reversed because the ballot paper promised it would be implemented and neither did it imply that there would be a second referendum afterwards just in case.

 

Cameron and his aides have royally ****ed this up for the whole country and should be held accountable for it.

 

And the only person who has actually pointed this out is Danny ****ing Dyer.

He said in January 2013 that it would happen if he won the 2015 election, so there was a 3 year warning and then a 1 year warning when he did win the election. That people chose to bury their heads in the metropolitan sand rather than take seriously the euroscepticism that was evident if people bothered to look isn't all Cameron's fault.

 

Likewise, the notion that Cameron ****ed up by offering the vote (as many people claim) shows exactly why it was the right thing. The way the UK is governed has changed massively since the people last got a say on the UK's relationship with Europe and the scandalous thing has been signing up to things and signing away things without the people ever getting to give their opinion. 

 

Maybe it could have been done better. 

[Carl the Llama]

37 minutes ago, bovril said:

No, I don't agree. I don't agree with the simple line of "Cameron is an idiot and it's all his fault, and there were lies on both sides do don't blame me". 

People bought into the idea that we are Britain, so we can get whatever we want. This idea has no basis in reality. Politicians compounded this by suicidally voting to send the Article 50 notification. I think it could've been avoided if people had called out the obvious lies earlier, but they didn't, so here we are. 

Sooner or later people need move beyond just blaming Cameron.

They did.  Unfortunately the liars just doubled down and their supporters kept dutifully chanting "project fear" as though Cameron & Osborne being prevaricating twunts meant that the people on their side couldn't possibly be wrong.

[bovril]

14 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

They did.  Unfortunately the liars just doubled down and their supporters kept dutifully chanting "project fear" as though Cameron & Osborne being prevaricating twunts meant that the people on their side couldn't possibly be wrong.

I meant senior politicians after the vote.

Also our dear national broadcaster continues to give air time to proven liars and fails to properly call them out on their bullshit for some reason. 

[Guest MattP]

How long can they keep this guy in the party?

[davieG]

Labour has suspended MP Chris Williamson over remarks about the party's handling of anti-Semitism.

The Derby North MP said Labour had "given too much ground" in the face of criticism over the issue, but later said he "deeply regrets" the remarks.

A number of Labour MPs had called for his suspension and the parliamentary party said he was no longer welcome at their meetings. 

A Labour spokesman confirmed he has now been suspended "pending investigation".

 

[bovril]

Imagine explaining to a time traveller from 2015 what's going on in the World today. Absolute insanity. 

[Alf Bentley]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6751547/Theresa-SACKS-ministerial-aide-Alberto-Costa.html

 

"Theresa May fired a ministerial aide today for trying to force the Government to bolster its protections for EU citizens after Brexit today. Alberto Costa has tabled an amendment to tonight's non-binding Brexit votes in defiance of Government policy.

He was sacked as an aide to Scotland Secretary David Mundell as the proposal picked up dozens of signatures from across the Commons.

The plan demands Britain fully implements the section of the divorce deal applying to citizens' rights regardless of whether the deal is agreed by exit day". 

 

He's a Leicestershire MP, Costa, isn't he?

 

[Mike Oxlong]

[yorkie1999]

2 hours ago, bovril said:

Imagine explaining to a time traveller from 2015 what's going on in the World today. Absolute insanity. 

First thing i'd say is "Look, i don't care whether or not you think i'm mentally unstable, stick your mortgage on leicester to win the league this year"

[Strokes]

On 26/02/2019 at 15:11, Kopfkino said:

He said in January 2013 that it would happen if he won the 2015 election, so there was a 3 year warning and then a 1 year warning when he did win the election. That people chose to bury their heads in the metropolitan sand rather than take seriously the euroscepticism that was evident if people bothered to look isn't all Cameron's fault.

 

Likewise, the notion that Cameron ****ed up by offering the vote (as many people claim) shows exactly why it was the right thing. The way the UK is governed has changed massively since the people last got a say on the UK's relationship with Europe and the scandalous thing has been signing up to things and signing away things without the people ever getting to give their opinion. 

 

Maybe it could have been done better. 

It could and should’ve been done better but I’m not sure Cameron is to blame either. We could and should've been given a say on the Maastricht treaty, we should’ve and could’ve been given a say on the EU constitution (the Lisbon treaty). They are huge failures and were not consented by the public that attributed and allowed this vacuum to occur. You can’t pin this on anyone, it’s a catalog of events that lead us to this point.

[Alf Bentley]

This is why using an extension as a fall-back option is high-risk - because any one EU country could veto the extension: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-article-50-extend-macron-merkel-theresa-may-france-germany-eu-talks-a8799506.html

 

"France would block a delay to Brexit unless it had a “clear objective” based on a “new choice” by the British, Emmanuel Macron has said. Speaking at a joint press conference with German chancellor Angela Merkel in Paris, the French president gave the clearest signal from an EU leader so far that there would be conditions on an extension to the Article 50 negotiating period. "We would support an extension request only if it was justified by a new choice of the British,” he told reporters. “But we would in no way accept an extension without a clear objective.”

 

My guess is that a one-off short extension would be agreed, but it's not certain - particularly not if May loses her parliamentary vote badly and has no obvious Plan B. She'll be aware of that and will presumably dangle alternatives, if necessary (further negotiations with Labour over a Softer Brexit, an indicative parliamentary vote on different options, maybe even a general election). That will also serve the purpose of bringing more of her own troops back on-side to vote for her deal - Hard Brexiteers scared of ending up with an even Softer Brexit or No Brexit and Tory Remainers/Labour pragmatists scared of ending up with No Deal. That could be enough to convince the likes of Macron to allow an extension: if she only loses narrowly (and she might yet win), after losing by 230 votes last time, she could credibly tell the EU that "one more heave" will allow her to get her deal through parliament....

 

High-risk stuff, though, if we end up being refused an extension - or having it made conditional on a policy change or a longer extension - and then face the alternative of an unplanned No Deal with less than a fortnight's notice.....

[davieG]

World’s top wealth fund puts billions into Britain
UK will be stronger after Brexit, Norwegians say

Oliver Wright, Policy Editor | Callum Jones, Trade Correspondent
February 28 2019, 12:01am, 
The Times

Economics

Norway’s sovereign wealth fund sees Britain in a good place 30 years from now

The world’s largest sovereign wealth fund is taking a 30-year bet that Britain will emerge from Brexit stronger outside the European Union.

In an unexpected move, Norway’s £740 billion wealth fund said yesterday that it would increase its exposure to British companies, property and bonds regardless of the outcome of Brexit negotiations.

This comes despite a 12 per cent fall in the value of its £62 billion of UK investments this year. Britain is the third largest market for the fund’s investment capital, which was built up from Norway’s oil and gas revenues.

In a bullish statement Yngve Slyngstad, the chief executive, said: “We will continue to be significant investors in Britain. We foresee that over time our investments in the UK will increase.”

Asked about Brexit uncertainty, Mr Slyngstad suggested that in the longer term the UK was still particularly attractive. “With our time horizon, which is 30 years-plus, current political discussions do not change our view of the situation,” he said.

The Norwegian fund is one of the biggest foreign investors in Britain. Officially called the Government Pension Fund Global, it is a co-owner of Regent Street in London, a top five investor in companies including HSBC and BP, and holds about £6 billion of UK government debt.

The move was welcomed by Brexiteers, who said that Britain would become even more attractive when freed from the constraints of EU membership. “It is a recognition that the freer the market in Britain is the more attractive the country will be to outside investment,” Jacob Rees-Mogg said.

However, Chris Leslie, the former Labour shadow chancellor who defected to the Independent Group last week, said that it was a response to the decline in UK asset prices since the Brexit vote.

“The truth is that British assets are in the global bargain basement,” he said. “Investment funds like these are not putting money into creating jobs or improving productivity, they are just buying up assets at a relatively cheap price in the hope that in the long term it will make them money.”

Middle Eastern funds have also increased their exposure to Britain. Qatar has invested almost £3 billion with plans to invest £2 billion more.

Some believe a no-deal Brexit could make the UK an even more attractive investment opportunity. David Zahn, senior vice-president at Franklin Templeton Fixed Income Group, said: “A hard Brexit would likely prompt a decline in sterling but we think a lot of people would step in to buy it attracted by the even lower levels.”

[Sharpe's Fox]

If there is another referendum Remain will lose again. Especially because it will be fronted by Soubry, Chuka ect. These people don't know how to campaign.

[Alf Bentley]

2 hours ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

If there is another referendum Remain will lose again. Especially because it will be fronted by Soubry, Chuka ect. These people don't know how to campaign.

 

I can see Danny Dyer going down well among Brexit voters up North. Or how about Lineker?

Yes, you have a point there - distinct lack of persuasive Remain voices....though I still assume another referendum is one of the less likely outcomes (maybe not if this all drags on to June without resolution?).

 

Mind you, how persuasive would the leading Brexiteers like Boris, Rees-Mogg, Davis & Mr. Wetherspooons be?

I presume your mate Jezza would do the same as last time - do the bare minimum to abide by the party line, address a few in-house Remain rallies, while avoiding trying to persuade anyone & crossing his fingers for a Leave vote?

 

Can you imagine the state of both main parties if there is another referendum? It would be an even bigger shitshow than it is now. Part of the reason why it still seems unlikely to happen. Though maybe they'd both agree to effectively make it a "free vote", allowing their people to campaign on both sides?

[Nalis]

21 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6751547/Theresa-SACKS-ministerial-aide-Alberto-Costa.html

 

"Theresa May fired a ministerial aide today for trying to force the Government to bolster its protections for EU citizens after Brexit today. Alberto Costa has tabled an amendment to tonight's non-binding Brexit votes in defiance of Government policy.

He was sacked as an aide to Scotland Secretary David Mundell as the proposal picked up dozens of signatures from across the Commons.

The plan demands Britain fully implements the section of the divorce deal applying to citizens' rights regardless of whether the deal is agreed by exit day". 

 

He's a Leicestershire MP, Costa, isn't he?

 

Not surprised by this, always thought he was the weakest member of Blue.

[Guest MattP]

23 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6751547/Theresa-SACKS-ministerial-aide-Alberto-Costa.html

 

"Theresa May fired a ministerial aide today for trying to force the Government to bolster its protections for EU citizens after Brexit today. Alberto Costa has tabled an amendment to tonight's non-binding Brexit votes in defiance of Government policy.

He was sacked as an aide to Scotland Secretary David Mundell as the proposal picked up dozens of signatures from across the Commons.

The plan demands Britain fully implements the section of the divorce deal applying to citizens' rights regardless of whether the deal is agreed by exit day". 

 

He's a Leicestershire MP, Costa, isn't he?

He is, pretty competent from what I've seen as well, I found it slightly amusing he had a broad Scottish accent as well when he first spoke as I didn't expect that from an Alberto Costa.

 

What a bizarre situation though - his amendment was accepted yet he was forced out of his job for it.

 

I actually thought the Cooper amendment vote was the most interesting last night, 20 Tories voted against it so that appears to be the amount of Tories that come hell or high heaven will vote against the deal even if it means no deal - if she can get the ERG on board which now looks possible she might just have the numbers to get it through with 15 or so from Labour also backing it. 

[Bellend Sebastian]

Was really worried about this 'Momo Challenge' thing until I realised it's not about that shit winger we signed

[Grebfromgrebland]

9 hours ago, davieG said:

World’s top wealth fund puts billions into Britain
UK will be stronger after Brexit, Norwegians say

Oliver Wright, Policy Editor | Callum Jones, Trade Correspondent
February 28 2019, 12:01am, 
The Times

Economics

Norway’s sovereign wealth fund sees Britain in a good place 30 years from now

The world’s largest sovereign wealth fund is taking a 30-year bet that Britain will emerge from Brexit stronger outside the European Union.

In an unexpected move, Norway’s £740 billion wealth fund said yesterday that it would increase its exposure to British companies, property and bonds regardless of the outcome of Brexit negotiations.

This comes despite a 12 per cent fall in the value of its £62 billion of UK investments this year. Britain is the third largest market for the fund’s investment capital, which was built up from Norway’s oil and gas revenues.

In a bullish statement Yngve Slyngstad, the chief executive, said: “We will continue to be significant investors in Britain. We foresee that over time our investments in the UK will increase.”

Asked about Brexit uncertainty, Mr Slyngstad suggested that in the longer term the UK was still particularly attractive. “With our time horizon, which is 30 years-plus, current political discussions do not change our view of the situation,” he said.

The Norwegian fund is one of the biggest foreign investors in Britain. Officially called the Government Pension Fund Global, it is a co-owner of Regent Street in London, a top five investor in companies including HSBC and BP, and holds about £6 billion of UK government debt.

The move was welcomed by Brexiteers, who said that Britain would become even more attractive when freed from the constraints of EU membership. “It is a recognition that the freer the market in Britain is the more attractive the country will be to outside investment,” Jacob Rees-Mogg said.

However, Chris Leslie, the former Labour shadow chancellor who defected to the Independent Group last week, said that it was a response to the decline in UK asset prices since the Brexit vote.

“The truth is that British assets are in the global bargain basement,” he said. “Investment funds like these are not putting money into creating jobs or improving productivity, they are just buying up assets at a relatively cheap price in the hope that in the long term it will make them money.”

Middle Eastern funds have also increased their exposure to Britain. Qatar has invested almost £3 billion with plans to invest £2 billion more.

Some believe a no-deal Brexit could make the UK an even more attractive investment opportunity. David Zahn, senior vice-president at Franklin Templeton Fixed Income Group, said: “A hard Brexit would likely prompt a decline in sterling but we think a lot of people would step in to buy it attracted by the even lower levels.”

None of this benefits the UK; remember a high stock market has nothing to do with how well the country is doing nor the quality of life of its residents.

 

In this case it's even worse. All companies will be foreign owned and all profits taken out of the country.

 

We'll have far less influence in the world and hedge funds who are funding brexit campaigns will destroy businesses and jobs. Think what happened to BHS times 10 million.

 

THIS IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF TAKING BACK CONTROL!

 

This will be coupled with a shitter life for 90% of the population.

 

 

[Grebfromgrebland]

Basically anything Jacob Reece mogg, Nigel farage, Putin and Trump wants we should do the opposite unless you're a traitor to the UK.

[davieG]

It's all about BRexit not Brexit for the Scots.

[RoboFox]

Because politicians have done such a stellar job f**king the country into oblivion, IPSA have decided to give them a 2.7% pay rise.

 

Since 2012, MP pay has gone from £65,738 to £79,468 (today's new rise will come in on Apr 1). That's a 21% pay rise from 7 years ago.

 

Note to self: Do a sh*t job, get rewarded. 

 

Edited 1 March 2019 by RoboFox

[The Fox Covert]

19 minutes ago, RoboFox said:

Because politicians have done such a stellar job f**king the country into oblivion, IPSA have decided to give them a 2.7% pay rise.

 

Since 2012, MP pay has gone from £65,738 to £79,468 (today's new rise will come in on Apr 1). That's a 21% pay rise from 7 years ago.

 

Note to self: Do a sh*t job, get rewarded. 

 

Just shy of 80 grand is standard middle management fare these days. I'm not defending MPs but the average bloke in a BMW in the next office to me on that sort of money has much more job security and much less hassle, and no chance of being lampooned by the likes of myself with a sharp pen and fertile imagination. Usually they can look forward to another twenty years of that, or even more if they climb another rung of the career ladder. But what they don't have is access to all the perks available to MPs who take full advantage of the parliamentary gravy train. I have no idea how wealthy my Tory MP, a former Army officer and relatively young is, but his Tory predecessor had sh1tloads of money, several company directorships, several large houses, and a tractor load of horse sh1t in the garden of his house in Pilton. He is another former victim of my pen.

Anyway, my income has increased by much more than 21% in the last 7 years.

[Guest MattP]