Are we getting too soft?

[leicsmac]

3 hours ago, murphy said:

 

I believe that over- indulgence diminishes character.

 

Of course, we should always strive to make life easier but I just have an opposite view on how to achieve that.

That's an inverted way of looking at it, certainly.

 

Personally, I think that the amount and type of adversity that someone has gone through has very little to do with the virtuousness of their character and other factors are much much more important, but that's me.

[ozleicester]

1 hour ago, Carl the Llama said:

That would be the USA imo.  We're stepping strongly in their direction but we aren't quite there yet, our workers still have universal healthcare for one thing.  That cartoon sums it up brilliantly though.

 

 

I think the USA working class is worse off, but they recognise it.

[Carl the Llama]

19 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

I think the USA working class is worse off, but they recognise it.

They voted for Donald Trump believing it was rebellion against the elites, much like we did with Brexit.  I don't agree that the UK's working class is uniquely misled, most western populaces have recently lurched to the right following similar propaganda about taking back control, regaining greatness, fighting back against the oppressive demands of minority groups etc.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

On ‎15‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 10:00, AKCJ said:

Do you have pets DavieG?

 

To me they're family.

I do so agree. My life has never been the same since losing my beautiful dog nearly four yeas ago. She meant the world to me.

[Innovindil]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49395718

 

It's gonna be really difficult to get me on board with this level of hyper-sensitivity. 

 

Jess Thom, a comedian who has Tourette's, said she was "not surprised" by the insensitive gag.

 

"It's just exhausting. I woke up this morning and I looked at that, and it just made me feel sad and tired," she said.

 

If you feel sad and tired over a one-liner by some random comedian, then you've got far bigger problems than tourette's. 

 

 

[ozleicester]

14 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49395718

 

It's gonna be really difficult to get me on board with this level of hyper-sensitivity. 

 

Jess Thom, a comedian who has Tourette's, said she was "not surprised" by the insensitive gag.

 

"It's just exhausting. I woke up this morning and I looked at that, and it just made me feel sad and tired," she said.

 

If you feel sad and tired over a one-liner by some random comedian, then you've got far bigger problems than tourette's. 

 

 

Id suggest its probably a lifetime of suffering at the "humorous" hands of wannabe comedians that is making the sufferer tired and sad.

 

[Carl the Llama]

10 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

Id suggest its probably a lifetime of suffering at the "humorous" hands of wannabe comedians that is making the sufferer tired and sad.

 

If that's the case it's a bit odd they're choosing this particular joke to highlight the problem.  What's offensive about it? Genuinely.

[Grebfromgrebland]

I think we shouldn't confuse being too soft with harming company profits.

 

The right wingers will have you believe we are too soft mainly to protect corporate interests. 

 

Mental health is a massive issue which is getting more attention and we shouldn't detract from that.

 

If someone is suffering eg. from a pet dying, that should be respected and if they need a day off or two then so be it. Obviously this does depend on type of job and what kind of contract you have etc.

[ozleicester]

13 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

If that's the case it's a bit odd they're choosing this particular joke to highlight the problem.  What's offensive about it? Genuinely.

I imagine theyve been asked to comment on this joke... as for whats offensive about it.. I dont know, but then i havent had to suffer with the issue for a lifetime.

[Buce]

36 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

If that's the case it's a bit odd they're choosing this particular joke to highlight the problem.  What's offensive about it? Genuinely.

 

Tourettes is a disability.

 

How is making fun of someone's disability substantially different from making fun of their sexuality or race?

[Carl the Llama]

Just now, Buce said:

 

Tourettes is a disability.

 

How is making fun of someone's disability substantially different from making fun of their sexuality or race?

It's not making fun of the disability though...  It's a play on words and one that doesn't rely on negative stereotypes to work.  I struggle to see it as anything more than a harmless dad joke.

[Izzy]

5 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

How is making fun of someone's disability substantially different from making fun of their sexuality or race?

Or ginger hair? 

[Buce]

3 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

It's not making fun of the disability though...  It's a play on words and one that doesn't rely on negative stereotypes to work.  I struggle to see it as anything more than a harmless dad joke.

 

Yeah, I see your point, mate, but then I don't have Tourettes.

 

Shouldn't we respect the fact that it's clearly offensive to someone with Tourettes, without needing to understand why?

[Innovindil]

10 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Or ginger hair? 

Just say you take offense Izzy then the mods can ban everyone that jokes about it. 

[Carl the Llama]

9 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Yeah, I see your point, mate, but then I don't have Tourettes.

 

Shouldn't we respect the fact that it's clearly offensive to someone with Tourettes, without needing to understand why?

Yes and no. Obviously any decent person would want to avoid upsetting another but that's so much easier if the source of offense can be clearly understood, equally we can't just set the bar for ceasing a behaviour at "that person is offended". There is no hard rule for these things imo.

[Carl the Llama]

.

[Finnaldo]

On 16/08/2019 at 10:35, ozleicester said:

Absolutely do NOT despise the left, im sorry for the fact that they are so exploited by the rich in the UK. The class system is so ingrained that they dont seem to be able to se their exploitation.

 

 

Late to the party but there’s also a more light-hearted one that gave me a chuckle the other day 

[ozleicester]

1 hour ago, Carl the Llama said:

Yes and no. Obviously any decent person would want to avoid upsetting another but that's so much easier if the source of offense can be clearly understood, equally we can't just set the bar for ceasing a behaviour at "that person is offended". There is no hard rule for these things imo.

By that rule how many need to be offended to decide its offensive?

[Finnaldo]

1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

Tourettes is a disability.

 

How is making fun of someone's disability substantially different from making fun of their sexuality or race?

 

I'll wade into the debate mid-course, apologies if I've missed anything skimming over it.

 

I'll preface this by saying that openly mocking people's disabilities is NOT okay- especially in an antagonistic or malicious manner.

 

But from what I've read on this particular joke, there wasn't any open mocking of the disability itself (replicating the Tourettes on stage, mocking someone with Tourettes in an anecdote etc.) but the condition was referenced for a play on words. The disability wasn't the joke, it was a device used FOR the joke.

 

So the question from there is where does the offence stem from: is the offence is referencing the disability itself? Does non-sufferers using the disability as a device dilute the seriousness of the disability? The two people who seemed to have raised issue with the joke haven't actually expressed what about the joke causes problems.

 

I appreciate everyone has the right to object if they feel slighted, yet this seems to be pushing it for a joke where the pun was 'florets'

[Buce]

2 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

It's not making fun of the disability though...  It's a play on words and one that doesn't rely on negative stereotypes to work.  I struggle to see it as anything more than a harmless dad joke.

 

7 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

 

I'll wade into the debate mid-course, apologies if I've missed anything skimming over it.

 

I'll preface this by saying that openly mocking people's disabilities is NOT okay- especially in an antagonistic or malicious manner.

 

But from what I've read on this particular joke, there wasn't any open mocking of the disability itself (replicating the Tourettes on stage, mocking someone with Tourettes in an anecdote etc.) but the condition was referenced for a play on words. The disability wasn't the joke, it was a device used FOR the joke.

 

So the question from there is where does the offence stem from: is the offence is referencing the disability itself? Does non-sufferers using the disability as a device dilute the seriousness of the disability? The two people who seemed to have raised issue with the joke haven't actually expressed what about the joke causes problems.

 

I appreciate everyone has the right to object if they feel slighted, yet this seems to be pushing it for a joke where the pun was 'florets'

 

Well, the joke references shouting out random words in public, so it actually does rely on a negative stereotype to work. 

[Finnaldo]

16 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

 

Well, the joke references shouting out random words in public, so it actually does rely on a negative stereotype to work. 

 

Isn't shouting out words the most recognised symptom of Tourette's?  It just seems like a fairly neutral segue to the pun.

[MC Prussian]

2 hours ago, Buce said:

 

Tourettes is a disability.

 

How is making fun of someone's disability substantially different from making fun of their sexuality or race?

Where do you draw the line where and when we can make jokes, no matter the subject matter or how offensive or stupid they are?

 

As long as the joke is good and creates a good laugh (even better if the joke is smart), then to me the joke or the nature of the joke beats the subject matter any day.

I think pretty much anything can or should be the subject of a joke, because humour takes the energy from laughter, which is a positive thing.

That doesn't mean that I concur with every single joke there is, some are funnier than others, but I personally wouldn't go as far as calling for the Joke Police or even demand legal action.

 

Woke comedy doesn't work, btw. It is the most unfunny of comedy there is. You can't create laughter when you constantly need to be on the lookout in order not to offend people.

Seems to me more and more people are losing the grasp of what makes comedy or jokes funny in the first place. Jerry Seinfeld for example, refuses to tour US college campuses these days because the audience is no longer receptive.

https://ew.com/article/2015/06/08/jerry-seinfeld-politically-correct-college-campuses/

Or this article here for further information:

https://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/10/living/seinfeld-comedy-colleges-feat/index.html

 

If any comedian made a joke about white heterosexual males (a group I belong to), would I take offense? No, not if the joke was good enough.

In the case of a cheap joke, I'd simply let it slide. If a comedian comes up with poor material, it reflects on him and he won't stay in business much longer. Tough on him. I couldn't care less. Newer, better comedians will come through.

 

It is estimated that roughly 0.5% of all children born suffer from Tourette's. So you'd scrape a joke in order not to potentially upset 1 child in 200?

And even then, we don't know how many of these Tourette cases actually take offense or simply find it funny themselves.

 

Basing your opinion on the reaction of one individual doesn't speak for the opinion of the majority.

 

And yes, there are by far more pressing issues in the world than one woman feeling offended by a joke.

[Buce]

2 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

 

Isn't shouting out words the most recognised symptom of Tourette's?  It just seems like a fairly neutral segue to the pun.

 

To you and I, yes, but we don't have Tourette's, so we're not really the best placed to judge.

[ozleicester]

1 minute ago, MC Prussian said:

So you'd scrape a joke in order not to potentially upset 1 child in 200?

so as long as not too many are offended, and you think its funny..its ok?

[Buce]

2 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Where do you draw the line where and when we can make jokes, no matter the subject matter or how offensive or stupid they are?

 

As long as the joke is good and creates a good laugh (even better if the joke is smart), then to me the joke or the nature of the joke beats the subject matter any day.

I think pretty much anything can or should be the subject of a joke, because humour takes the energy from laughter, which is a positive thing.

That doesn't mean that I concur with every single joke there is, some are funnier than others, but I personally wouldn't go as far as calling for the Joke Police or even demand legal action.

 

Woke comedy doesn't work, btw. It is the most unfunny of comedy there is. You can't create laughter when you constantly need to be on the lookout in order not to offend people.

 

If any comedian made a joke about white heterosexual males (a group I belong to), would I take offense? No, not if the joke was good enough.

In the case of a cheap joke, I'd simply let it slide. If a comedian comes up with poor material, it reflects on him and he won't stay in business much longer. Tough on him. I couldn't care less. Newer, better comedians will come through.

 

It is estimated that roughly 0.5% of all children born suffer from Tourette's. So you'd scrape a joke in order not to potentially upset 1 child in 200?

And even then, we don't know how many of these Tourette cases actually take offense or simply find it funny themselves.

 

Basing your opinion on the reaction of one individual doesn't speak for the opinion of the majority.

 

And yes, there are by far more pressing issues in the world than one woman feeling offended by a joke.

 

So, by that reckoning, a racist joke at school is fine if only one student is black?