Are we getting too soft?

[leicsmac]

43 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Respectfully I disagree. See the depression thread, full of people will genuine problems yet full of people will the knowledge to help. I doubt that would have even remotely existed 10 years ago. Yet here it is, most of the time on the front page of threads. But we have to be careful not to push too far too fast and turn ordinary life problems into extraordinary mental health problems. Bad stuff happens, most of the time you'll have a normal period of bad emotions but it will get better, the focus should (but imo, currently isn't) be towards the problems and emotions that don't get sorted/better with time. 

Fair enough, I think we agree to disagree and leave it at that then.

 

NB. I think a chief driver of progress should be to make even what might be considered the run-of-the-mill bad stuff less of a problem for people. I guess that's a pipe dream - problems with life tend to get replaced with different problems rather than phased out entirely, don't they?

Edited 15 August 2019 by leicsmac

[SouthStandUpperTier]

Get a Tamagotchi. Problem solved.

[don_danbury]

why not just call in sick? surely 1 day should be allowed at least. anyway, why is she making a big deal about a poxy part time sandwich job?

Edited 15 August 2019 by don_danbury

[Captain...]

I really don't understand employers that treat employees like shit and can't have a little flexibility. In most jobs you do more than you need to when it calls for it but that is a 2 way street and if you give a bit more and then when you ask for something back, like leaving early for a social engagement or a day off because your dog died then fair enough. 

 

Obviously in this case she could be a regular shirker who often takes the day off for spurious reasons then fvck 'em give them the sack.

[srex9]

Don't know enough about this particular case and I never want to make subjective judgements or assessments regarding anything. I agree that society in general is becoming too soft and people are far too easily offended. It makes dialogue/discourse so much harder with people that come from entirely different background and circumstances. 

 

However, in terms of pets it can absolutely feel like losing a family member. Should people get sick days because of it?...I think that needs to be sorted out on a case by case basis. Some people deal with these things far better than others. Businesses still have to be able to function at the end of the day.

[Trav Le Bleu]

 

[murphy]

12 hours ago, leicsmac said:

With respect to the article itself, bereavement leave is of course up to the employer and I'm sure it was in the contract somewhere.

 

With respect to the general question asked, life becoming easier and softer for everyone is a sign of progress IMO and I've no idea why some folks deify suffering as some kind of moral accomplishment.

 

It's not that life is easier, all the shittiness of life still exists, illness, loss, poverty, heartbreak etc and always will,  but we are lacking the stoicism to deal with it.   We are becoming softer and it seems that as we are indulged at every setback and encouraged to be offended at the drop of the hat, then life is only going to get harder.

 

[Dr The Singh]

The cure is viagra?

[leicsmac]

3 hours ago, murphy said:

 

It's not that life is easier, all the shittiness of life still exists, illness, loss, poverty, heartbreak etc and always will,  but we are lacking the stoicism to deal with it.   We are becoming softer and it seems that as we are indulged at every setback and encouraged to be offended at the drop of the hat, then life is only going to get harder.

 

Certainly in terms of poverty and illness life in general has gotten better and will continue to get better IMO.

 

Lacking stoicism only makes life harder if the bad things that happen continue to do so at the same rate and magnitude, which, again, I don't think is true and it would be a damning indictment of humanity if they were - lacking progress in that way would be terrible.

 

If we can make life easier and mitigate problems for future generations (in whatever form they may arise) then we should try to do so rather than believing this ridiculous stoic social Darwinist ideal that suffering breeds character and that because humanity has always had it (quite) hard that it will always be that way.

[spacemunky]

I went to work the day after my entire family died.

 

Took me practically the entire night to clean everything up too. 

[ozleicester]

The English working class is the dumbest and most exploited in the modern 1st world.

 

 

[murphy]

6 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Certainly in terms of poverty and illness life in general has gotten better and will continue to get better IMO.

 

Lacking stoicism only makes life harder if the bad things that happen continue to do so at the same rate and magnitude, which, again, I don't think is true and it would be a damning indictment of humanity if they were - lacking progress in that way would be terrible.

 

If we can make life easier and mitigate problems for future generations (in whatever form they may arise) then we should try to do so rather than believing this ridiculous stoic social Darwinist ideal that suffering breeds character and that because humanity has always had it (quite) hard that it will always be that way.

 

I believe that over- indulgence diminishes character.

 

Of course, we should always strive to make life easier but I just have an opposite view on how to achieve that.

[MC Prussian]

Part of it is down to us living longer, having advanced in terms of comfort, technology, medicine, life expectancy.

Let's face it - we're more bored than ever. We contemplate the most insignificant of things and blow them out of proportion.

 

We have more time at our disposal to ponder all sorts of things, including grieving for pets.

 

I think pets do serve a purpose, especially for people with poor social skills (for whatever reason that may be), the sick or the elderly. They can provide mental stability and sometimes aid people to open up or heal.

 

However, taking greavances over the death of animals, no matter how close they are/were to oneself, takes it a bit too far. We have this tendency nowadays to be upset over the tiniest of things, take things for granted (see advancements above), dispute from an Ivory Tower's perspective and forget how good our lives have become in relation to conditions back in the days.

We're also risking a society where everyone is constantly offended by pretty much anything, where common sense is thrown out of the window and online anger given more importance over true feelings and personal, one-to-one discourse (see the Twitter phenomenon).

 

The fact that only 700 people have signed up and that this minority issue is worth a newspaper's note says it all.

Edited 16 August 2019 by MC Prussian

[murphy]

6 hours ago, ozleicester said:

The English working class is the dumbest and most exploited in the modern 1st world.

 

 

I don't know about other countries but I find it unsettling that the English working class is so despised by the 'loudly left' these days. The very same that are supposed to represent it.  The above repped by arch leftist @Buce of course.  

[ozleicester]

3 minutes ago, murphy said:

I don't know about other countries but I find it unsettling that the English working class is so despised by the 'loudly left' these days. The very same that are supposed to represent it.  The above repped by arch leftist @Buce of course.  

Absolutely do NOT despise the left, im sorry for the fact that they are so exploited by the rich in the UK. The class system is so ingrained that they dont seem to be able to se their exploitation.

 

[Buce]

8 minutes ago, murphy said:

I don't know about other countries but I find it unsettling that the English working class is so despised by the 'loudly left' these days. The very same that are supposed to represent it.  The above repped by arch leftist @Buce of course.  

 

I despise the expoliters, not the exploited.

 

But I despair at how the working class meekly allows it and buys into the rightist proganda - they are the most politically unaware proletariat in the world.

[Carl the Llama]

6 hours ago, ozleicester said:

The English working class is the dumbest and most exploited in the modern 1st world.

That would be the USA imo.  We're stepping strongly in their direction but we aren't quite there yet, our workers still have universal healthcare for one thing.  That cartoon sums it up brilliantly though.

 

 

[Stadt]

2 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

I despise the expoliters, not the exploited.

 

But I despair at how the working class meekly allows it and buys into the rightist proganda - they are the most politically unaware proletariat in the world.

Possibly in the developed world, but it’s not as if the Chinese working classes are really enlightened and that they enjoy living in an authoritarian dictatorship.

[Carl the Llama]

3 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

I despise the expoliters, not the exploited.

 

But I despair at how the working class meekly allows it and buys into the rightist proganda - they are the most politically unaware proletariat in the world.

I still have nightmares about the video of that woman in Burnley who the BBC followed over the course of the Brexit vote, the one who went from door to door in a vote leave shirt handing out leaflets and encourage people to vote to leave, getting emotional talking about the subject and eventually breaking down in tears when the result came in, saying how great it was for our country.   Over the course of the video she didn't make a single factual argument for her position.

[Buce]

3 minutes ago, Stadt said:

Possibly in the developed world, but it’s not as if the Chinese working classes are really enlightened and that they enjoy living in an authoritarian dictatorship.

 

Yeah, you may be right - I really don't know enough about China to comment - though they could be enlightened but powerless to express it.

[David Guiza]

10 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

We're also risking a society where everyone is constantly offended by pretty much anything, where common sense is thrown out of the window and online anger given more importance over true feelings and personal, one-to-one discourse (see the Twitter phenomenon).

 

We're not though, are we? I personally think that kid of perspective is nonsense peddled by right wing s*itrag newspapers and media outlets. I'm a left-wing, white, somewhat middle class, veggie/vegan, and even I don't know a single person who is even close to that description.  

 

@leicsmac hit the nail on the head on another thread, whereby genuine concerns and grievances about real and pressing issues are dismissed as 'the snowflake generation' as a way to assert power and influence. Key issues like feminism, climate change, racism and the like are ridiculed by crap like the Daily Mail putting out ridiculous quotes and soundbites of the local loon that no sane person would actually believe. One mentions racism for example, and somebody will dig up articles of some bizarre white person who thinks that all white people should enslave themselves to make up for the past centuries, and then people will think that view is held by the majority and dismiss any genuine concerns.

 

 

Sensationalism is a plague. I can almost guarantee that this kind of story will be on other news outlets and be worded completely differently, something like 'Lazy millennial seeks compensation for lack of compassion shown by employer for her dead dog'.  

 

 

[MC Prussian]

14 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

We're not though, are we? I personally think that kid of perspective is nonsense peddled by right wing s*itrag newspapers and media outlets. I'm a left-wing, white, somewhat middle class, veggie/vegan, and even I don't know a single person who is even close to that description.  

 

@leicsmac hit the nail on the head on another thread, whereby genuine concerns and grievances about real and pressing issues are dismissed as 'the snowflake generation' as a way to assert power and influence. Key issues like feminism, climate change, racism and the like are ridiculed by crap like the Daily Mail putting out ridiculous quotes and soundbites of the local loon that no sane person would actually believe. One mentions racism for example, and somebody will dig up articles of some bizarre white person who thinks that all white people should enslave themselves to make up for the past centuries, and then people will think that view is held by the majority and dismiss any genuine concerns.

 

 

Sensationalism is a plague. I can almost guarantee that this kind of story will be on other news outlets and be worded completely differently, something like 'Lazy millennial seeks compensation for lack of compassion shown by employer for her dead dog'. 

Hence why I said "we're risking", because we're not there. Not yet.

 

Also, your personal experience is all fine and dandy and listen, I'd like to believe that we as a society (in Western Europe, democratic countries) are still level-headed enough.

But as a side effect of this modern, present-day society, you'll find that more and more people shy away from voicing their own opinion in public, in real life, because they fear they'll get chastised. So they keep it to themselves.

Bit of a stretch here, but it wouldn't surprise me if some of your closer friends held views you'd find either irritating or appalling. You just don't know it. Yet.

 

I just think that minority issues are given too much importance over issues that affect the society as a whole. Not that these issues shouldn't be taken care of at all, but simply in due time, one after the other.

The media certainly play into it, using these stories as blown-up fillers, in terms of coverage.

Our free daily newspaper over here consists of 90% non-stories, a lot of advertisement and paid product placements, and the major newspapers tend to put more and more importance on opinion pieces, rather than reporting what's going on or supporting investigative journalism. The line between information and entertainment/shallow messaging gets more and more blurred.

 

Disagree with feminism being a key issue, btw. Equality of opportunity, absolutely. Most women don't even consider themselves feminist or buy into the ideology, certainly not third-wave feminism.

 

As for Climate Change, you have my support. Here, I'd like to see less populism on both sides, less hysteria from Climate Change extremists, and more reasonable talk about the current situation, including the impact of an ever-growing global population (especially in Africa and Asia) and reasonable, feasible solutions.

 

As for racism, the question is how pertinent it still is and whether it is merely used as a tool by political parties, and one side in particular, in order to pander to their voters.

Are we more racist than ever or are we simply being told we are more racist than ever?

Edited 16 August 2019 by MC Prussian

[grobyfox1990]

38 minutes ago, Stadt said:

Possibly in the developed world, but it’s not as if the Chinese working classes are really enlightened and that they enjoy living in an authoritarian dictatorship.

That's true r.e the Chinese although (and those that have spent longer in China than me will know much better, i've only spent two weeks of my life there) they seem to know that and understand that. The reason i think we are a trampled upon and controlled nation is that we think the complete opposite. We swan around crowing to the world about our civil liberties and freedoms. Whilst in reality the class system rules, you are being watched by millions of cameras on every corner, your data is being harvested and used to exploit you and every utility in our country has been sold off to foreign funds, loaded with debt and looted for dividends. Which we all pay for in return for awful service. And whilst all this is happening the public sit on the sidelines condemning Saudi Arabia for killing a journalist.

[Carl the Llama]

31 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

We're not though, are we? I personally think that kid of perspective is nonsense peddled by right wing s*itrag newspapers and media outlets. I'm a left-wing, white, somewhat middle class, veggie/vegan, and even I don't know a single person who is even close to that description.  

 

@leicsmac hit the nail on the head on another thread, whereby genuine concerns and grievances about real and pressing issues are dismissed as 'the snowflake generation' as a way to assert power and influence. Key issues like feminism, climate change, racism and the like are ridiculed by crap like the Daily Mail putting out ridiculous quotes and soundbites of the local loon that no sane person would actually believe. One mentions racism for example, and somebody will dig up articles of some bizarre white person who thinks that all white people should enslave themselves to make up for the past centuries, and then people will think that view is held by the majority and dismiss any genuine concerns.

 

 

Sensationalism is a plague. I can almost guarantee that this kind of story will be on other news outlets and be worded completely differently, something like 'Lazy millennial seeks compensation for lack of compassion shown by employer for her dead dog'.  

 

 

If anything it's the older generation who get most easily triggered by small things.  Queues at cafes and supermarkets are a great place to witness this in action.  Can't remember the last time I've seen a young person asked to see the manager over a small mistake instead of simply having a quick word and resolving the issue.

[David Guiza]

31 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Hence why I said "we're risking", because we're not there. Not yet.

 

Also, your personal experience is all fine and dandy and listen, I'd like to believe that we as a society (in Western Europe, democratic countries) are still level-headed enough.

But as a side effect of this modern, present-day society, you'll find that more and more people shy away from voicing their own opinion in public, in real life, because they fear they'll get chastised. So they keep it to themselves.

Bit of a stretch here, but it wouldn't surprise me if some of your closer friends held views you'd find either irritating or appalling. You just don't know it. Yet.

 

I just think that minority issues are given too much importance over issues that affect the society as a whole. Not that these issues shouldn't be taken care of at all, but simply in due time, one after the other.

The media certainly play into it, using these stories as blown-up fillers, in terms of coverage.

Our free daily newspaper over here consists of 90% non-stories, a lot of advertisement and paid product placements, and the major newspapers tend to put more and more importance on opinion pieces, rather than reporting what's going on or supporting investigative journalism. The line between information and entertainment/shallow messaging gets more and more blurred.

 

Disagree with feminism being a key issue, btw. Equality of opportunity, absolutely. Most women don't even consider themselves feminist or buy into the ideology, certainly not third-wave feminism.

 

As for Climate Change, you have my support. Here, I'd like to see less populism on both sides, less hysteria from Climate Change extremists, and more reasonable talk about the current situation, including the impact of an ever-growing global population (especially in Africa and Asia) and reasonable, feasible solutions.

 

As for racism, the question is how pertinent it still is and whether it is merely used as a tool by political parties, and one side in particular, in order to pander to their voters.

Are we more racist than ever or are we simply being told we are more racist than ever?

*Apologies for derailing the thread a little*

 

I know that, but you'd hardly be the first to say that we already live in a world people are offended by everything, which just isn't true so far as I can tell.

 

I understand that's the case, though post Brexit I don't think anybody keeps their thoughts to themselves anymore and if they are then I dread to think what they're harbouring up in there. With Donald Trump, Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Salvini, Le Pen etc all prominent in politics across major nations, I really don't think we live in Orwellian times of fear of thought just yet. Plenty of my friends and family hold views that I find irritating and or appalling, particularly family members. Just last weekend we had a debate about gender at a family BBQ sparked by my sister saying that she had to sign a form allowing my nephew's school to put makeup on him, and that she signed it without her bf's knowing because he wouldn't have approved (not all family events erupt like that )

 

I agree, I think the problem lies with funding of the newspapers. It's difficult to find a balanced newspaper now because Murdoch owns half of them and others are too far the other way, at times. This news article in general will be reported in a myriad of different ways depending on the audience of said newspaper, as opposed to the actual facts being reported.

 

Equality of opportunity is feminism. 

 

Racism is still an issue, just because it's better than it was doesn't mean the issue has gone away. This week alone you've got anti-knife crime adverts being placed on fried chicken and Tammy Abraham being racially abused. Yes it's not exactly slavery or acidic swimming pools, but it's far from over.