Are we getting too soft?

[MC Prussian]

26 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

So, by that reckoning, a racist joke at school is fine if only one student is black?

Err... no? 

 

I applaud you for your swift change of subject. We're talking about Tourette's, and you instantly switch to the topic of racism.

Genius.

#whataboutism

Edited 20 August 2019 by MC Prussian

[MC Prussian]

17 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

so as long as not too many are offended, and you think its funny..its ok?

I think we have more pressing issues to take care of than contemplating whether a joke is offensive or not.

 

What we're doing here is discussing modern First World problems. Which ties in nicely with the theme of a plus in time for procrastination these days and the comforts of living in a rather care-free, progressive Western society.

Edited 20 August 2019 by MC Prussian

[David Guiza]

12 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

 

Woke comedy doesn't work, btw. It is the most unfunny of comedy there is. You can't create laughter when you constantly need to be on the lookout in order not to offend people.

 

I remember listening to a podcast with Phil Wang a while back and he made an interesting point where he said something along the lines of 'there is no topic that you shouldn't be unable to poke fun at, the difficulty is that the more offensive the topic, the funnier the joke needs to be' and I think I probably agree with him. The risk however is when comedy belittles somebody or a group of people at the expense of a cheap laugh. 

 

I disagree with the bit you've quoted however. James Acaster is one of the least controversial comedians around and he is absolutely hilarious and has fans from all walks of life, the notion that comedy needs to be offensive to be funny is nonsense. Generally I find a lot of offensive comedy lazy, anybody can say something offensive for comedic effect and it doesn't take any real talent. My wife and I played Cards Against Humanity a while back with some friends and (humble brag) absolutely hammered everyone because it's easy as anything.  

Edited 20 August 2019 by David Guiza

[Carl the Llama]

1 hour ago, ozleicester said:

By that rule how many need to be offended to decide its offensive?

There is no rule, you just have to take each case on its own merits.  All I'm saying is this specific joke doesn't fit my understanding of what is offensive, "that person says they're offended" isn't a great argument to help me understand.

[MC Prussian]

1 minute ago, David Guiza said:

I remember listening to a podcast with Phil Wang a while back and he made an interesting point where he said something along the lines of 'there is no topic that you shouldn't be unable to poke fun at, the difficulty is that the more offensive the topic, the funnier the joke needs to be' and I think I probably agree with him. The risk however is when comedy belittles somebody or a group of people at the expense of a cheap laugh. 

 

I disagree with the bit you've quoted however. James Acaster is one of the least controversial comedians around and he is absolutely hilarious and has fans from all walks of life, the notion that comedy needs to be offensive to be funny is nonsense. Generally I find a lot of offensive comedy lazy, anybody can say something offensive for comedic effect and it doesn't take any real talent. My wife and I played Cards Against Humanity a while back with some friends and (humble brag) absolutely hammered everyone because it's easy as anything.  

Oh, I concur. Cheap jokes for cheap people, I guess. Most of what's on TV isn't really funny anymore, though. Because TV stations have this PC culture going on, fearing for the worst.

Hence why I said that I like smart jokes in particular - either the audience is smart enough to catch on immediately, or it's one of these jokes where only (little) later you realize how good the punchline was. Norm MacDonald is a specialist at that, but he doesn't get the audience he deserves.

 

The art of great comedy is getting lost these days, though. The deaths of Robin Williams, Bill Hicks or George Carlin ended it for me. Unless someone new turns out to be as courageous as them three. Bill Burr is still kind of ok, but was funnier in his younger years. Or look at Eddie Murphy - he was brutal in his early 20ies.

Imagine them on TV today - impossible.

[Guest]

I guess all jokes can be offensive to someone/something.

 

should Monty Python have been banned? Should they be now?

 

I'm often offended by jokes but it doesn't mean they should be banned. Humour is a very personal thing. 

 

We live in a time where being offended and using that to shut someone up is all too easy to do.

 

If you find a joke offensive and feel the need to say so , then say so, but let's not ban the joke or the discussion. That way darkness lays.

[Buce]

28 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Err... no? 

 

I applaud you for your swift change of subject. We're talking about Tourette's, and you instantly switch to the topic of racism.

Genius.

#whataboutism

 

It's not a change of subject, it's relevant because it's precisely what you are saying - I'm sorry if the idea of racism makes you feel uncomfortable or defensive but that's the elephant in the room here.

 

You said a joke shouldn't be scrapped if only one child in 200 is offended - an absolute - you didn't make any exceptions.

Edited 20 August 2019 by Buce

[MC Prussian]

3 hours ago, Buce said:

 

It's not a change of subject, it's relevant because it's precisely what you are saying - I'm sorry if the idea of racism makes you feel uncomfortable or defensive but that's the elephant in the room here.

 

You said a joke shouldn't be scrapped if only one child in 200 is offended - an absolute - you didn't make any exceptions.

The number specifically relates to Tourette's, not people in general. It's based on US research:

https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/tourette/data.html

 

And I asked a question (to you), I didn't put it down as an absolute.

 

You still haven't answered the question whether it is worth scrapping a joke that could potentially offend 1 in 200 - with a majority of people suffering from Tourette's being able taking it on the chin, so to say 99% of that 1%. I don't need people to tell me they're offended on behalf of other people who can speak for themselves.

 

Seeing that you quote only one portion of my previous post, I suppose you concur with the rest of it?

 

With regards to the topic of "racist" jokes, there are moments where they can work, in a certain context. When an African-American for example is poking fun at his own heritage, using racial slurs on himself in essence. Or when imitating people from other backgrounds or stereotypes that still exist, but that's when I draw the line. Just because you're imitating people doesn't make you racist, know what I mean? It simply means you're walking on a thin line and can easily lose it all.

The standard here must be higher, though. Very high. The joke must be really, really good in order to work.

 

Racism per se isn't funny and in general no ground for comedy.

Edited 20 August 2019 by MC Prussian

[grobyfox1990]

Just another route into the homogenisation of our society and everyone having the same opinion as the BBC, and if you don't, you're wrong

[sm1]

Just getting back to the OP, when my dog passed away I was so heart broken,  I had to take several days off work. As a child my grandparents passed away and I can honestly say,  I never felt as bad as when my dog died. 

[leicsmac]

My own take is that the best type of humour always "punches up", not "down"...but I guess humour is subjective.

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

My own take is that the best type of humour always "punches up", not "down"...but I guess humour is subjective.

 

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

[MC Prussian]

59 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

My own take is that the best type of humour always "punches up", not "down"...but I guess humour is subjective.

You forgot "sideways".

[z-layrex]

Sorry but when my dog or cat dies it will be like losing a family member (because they are as much a member of the family as anyone else) and I will not be coming into work until able to cope. I don't think that's soft at all and I hope my manager would understand that.

 

My pets are individuals with their own personalities and capacity to love. Their deaths are just as tragic as any human's.

Edited 20 August 2019 by z-layrex

[leicsmac]

17 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

You forgot "sideways".

Sideways is quite a rare one (unless it's self-deprecation), but yeah.

[the fox]

Excuse my question but, do people really consider Pets to be as important to the family as their own blood? Their own mother and father, son or daughter, brother or sister?

[David Guiza]

Just now, the fox said:

Excuse my question but, do people really consider Pets to be as important to the family as their own blood? Their own mother and father, son or daughter, brother or sister?

Yup, she's a kn*b. 

[Buce]

16 minutes ago, the fox said:

Excuse my question but, do people really consider Pets to be as important to the family as their own blood? Their own mother and father, son or daughter, brother or sister?

 

More so than some family members.

[FoxesDeb]

30 minutes ago, the fox said:

Excuse my question but, do people really consider Pets to be as important to the family as their own blood? Their own mother and father, son or daughter, brother or sister?

Definitely more so. Some of my family are complete arseholes and I have very little to do with them from one year to the next. My cat, however, is amazing. 

[LiberalFox]

The joke seemed mildly offensive to me, yeah it's not as offensive as some but it could still offend.

[Kopic]

My work let me go home early when our hamster died.

[UpTheLeagueFox]

"I was offended"

 

 

[Raj]

It's the snowflake mellenium generation I'm afraid.

As a 48 year old Asian born and bred in Leicester growing up in the 80's I think we had a tough skin. The elders had an even tougher skin. I can't even begin to imagine the reactions when I started work in 1988 if I had to ring in and say I need a few days off because my pet had died...I wouldn't be able to carry on working there after my return. The banter(Which your also not allowed to have!) would have ripped my arsehole into two!!! 

Also bereavement is mostly only paid fir the loss of an immediate family member. Don't know the criteria would work for classifying a dog/cat/fish/budgie?!

[grobyfox1990]

23 hours ago, the fox said:

Excuse my question but, do people really consider Pets to be as important to the family as their own blood? Their own mother and father, son or daughter, brother or sister?

My cat and dog are decent and funny and have been with me for years but they don't talk to me, provide advice or comfort, help me out of a tight spot or provide any much-needed human social interaction. So no, absolutely not, nowhere near as important as my family. Would drop everything and anything for family members whether i like them or not.

[Facecloth]

Judging by the fact that this joke by Lineker received numerous complaints, I'd say yes.

 

"It's a strong start to the Premier League season. Real hair-raising stuff at times… unless you're Alan Shearer and Danny Murphy."