Are we getting too soft?

[davieG]

Where do you draw the line?

 

Is it even practicable?

 

 

Sacked worker calls for bereavement leave when family pets die

 

Emma McNulty described the death of Millie as like "losing a member of the family"

A woman who was sacked after her family dog died has started a campaign for bereavement leave to be granted when employees lose their pets.

Emma McNulty, from Glasgow, said she was too upset to work after her terrier Millie died at the weekend.

She claims she was physically sick with grief, but the 18-year-old student was told to find cover or risk dismissal.

Unable to find a replacement, her part-time job in a sandwich shop was terminated.

Ms McNulty described the death of Millie as like "losing a member of the family". 

She has started a petition asking for employers to recognise pet bereavement in the same way as a human family member.

Her online change.org petition has already gained more than 700 supporters.

"I was sacked on the same day as I lost my dog," she said.

"Millie was 14 and I am 18, so I don't remember a time when she wasn't part of my life.

"We did everything together. I was so close to her and she was my best pal."

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-49346408

[leicsmac]

With respect to the article itself, bereavement leave is of course up to the employer and I'm sure it was in the contract somewhere.

 

With respect to the general question asked, life becoming easier and softer for everyone is a sign of progress IMO and I've no idea why some folks deify suffering as some kind of moral accomplishment.

[AKCJ]

Do you have pets DavieG?

 

To me they're family.

[David Guiza]

I don't think that's too unreasonable, though I understand it could be abused. 

 

I am more concerned by the companies that put so much pressure on their employees that they feel they can't have days off for physical/mental health days through fear of being sacked. 

 

[davieG]

I fully understand in this instance but it was also where do you draw the line, All pets, how many years do you have to have had them etc.

[davieG]

4 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Do you have pets DavieG?

 

To me they're family.

No but my grand-kids did and have and their dog died which they'd known since birth so I know the effect it can have.

[Guest]

I have pets, always have had. Love them more than most humans but in answer to your question - yes we're getting softer and softer. 

 

Animals die, we know that when we get them. Humans die, we know that too and should expect "older" people to die.

 

I find it no more ridiculous than our need to be classified as "ill" and get time off and pay for every problem we have or our need for compensation for things that happen to others or our mass hysteria in many circumstances.

 

You're paid to work not paid to not work - why should you expect to be paid if you're not working?

 

Whilst I'm going on, I'll add the right for "smoking breaks" - what a joke! 

 

30 minutes lunch unpaid and work the rest of your day (not spend it checking your telephones and FT posts).

[David Guiza]

3 minutes ago, davieG said:

I fully understand in this instance but it was also where do you draw the line, All pets, how many years do you have to have had them etc.

I get where you're coming from, and ultimately it can't really be checked. The same can also be said for relatives and friends too, some people would be absolutely devastated to a lose a cousin, for example, whereas others wouldn't have seen them for 30 years and consequently wouldn't even attend the funeral. 

 

The same people will always find ways to 'break the system' in order go get time off work etc, whether it be through doctors and dental appointments, made up friends and relatives funerals etc. As I mention above though, it's sad that the genuine and hardworking people out there get mistreated and undervalued if they have the occasional day off work. I've only had around 4/5 days off sick in my 6 or so years in full-time employment and even then I spent most of those days worrying about being off, it's ridiculous. 

 

On a side note, at a previous firm I worked at, I called up the morning of my Grandma's death to say I wouldn't be in as I was 40 miles away, sleep deprived and naturally somewhat upset - the HR lady said 'Ok, back tomorrow though I assume?' and the firm before that required copy death certificates if you required more than a couple of days off. Relentless. 

[Innovindil]

2 minutes ago, FIF said:

I have pets, always have had. Love them more than most humans but in answer to your question - yes we're getting softer and softer. 

 

Animals die, we know that when we get them. Humans die, we know that too and should expect "older" people to die.

 

I find it no more ridiculous than our need to be classified as "ill" and get time off and pay for every problem we have or our need for compensation for things that happen to others or our mass hysteria in many circumstances.

 

You're paid to work not paid to not work - why should you expect to be paid if you're not working?

 

Whilst I'm going on, I'll add the right for "smoking breaks" - what a joke! 

 

30 minutes lunch unpaid and work the rest of your day (not spend it checking your telephones and FT posts).

Pretty much the face I just made while reading this on my phone while having a smoke at work. 

 

 

Agree with the rest though. 

[TiffToff88]

I'll probably want a few days off when my dog dies, but I wouldn't expect it to be any kind of bereavement leave. I'll take a few days holiday when the inevitable day comes (hopefully not for another 8-10 years though, she's only 5!)

Edited 15 August 2019 by TiffToff88

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

With respect to the article itself, bereavement leave is of course up to the employer and I'm sure it was in the contract somewhere.

 

With respect to the general question asked, life becoming easier and softer for everyone is a sign of progress IMO and I've no idea why some folks deify suffering as some kind of moral accomplishment.

If you don't want future generations of humanity to have a better life than yours did then you're an absolute oddball.

[leicsmac]

8 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

If you don't want future generations of humanity to have a better life than yours did then you're an absolute oddball.

Unfortunately there seems to be no shortage of oddballs around that don't give the slightest toss about the future. Beyond the end of their own lives, anyhow.

[Buce]

19 minutes ago, FIF said:

I have pets, always have had. Love them more than most humans but in answer to your question - yes we're getting softer and softer. 

 

Animals die, we know that when we get them. Humans die, we know that too and should expect "older" people to die.

 

I find it no more ridiculous than our need to be classified as "ill" and get time off and pay for every problem we have or our need for compensation for things that happen to others or our mass hysteria in many circumstances.

 

You're paid to work not paid to not work - why should you expect to be paid if you're not working?

 

Whilst I'm going on, I'll add the right for "smoking breaks" - what a joke! 

 

30 minutes lunch unpaid and work the rest of your day (not spend it checking your telephones and FT posts).

 

I can see why you define yourself as 'a liberal-minded kind of guy'...

 

 

[Jon the Hat]

She is arguing the wrong thing imo.  There are many reasons why you could need time off at short notice, and employers should do their best to allow it on an unpaid basis.  Being sacked for one incident suggests she was not a valued staff member; could be she was unreliable  OR the employer doesn’t value their staff at all.

Edited 15 August 2019 by Jon the Hat

[Jattdogg]

32 minutes ago, FIF said:

I have pets, always have had. Love them more than most humans but in answer to your question - yes we're getting softer and softer. 

 

Animals die, we know that when we get them. Humans die, we know that too and should expect "older" people to die.

 

I find it no more ridiculous than our need to be classified as "ill" and get time off and pay for every problem we have or our need for compensation for things that happen to others or our mass hysteria in many circumstances.

 

You're paid to work not paid to not work - why should you expect to be paid if you're not working?

 

Whilst I'm going on, I'll add the right for "smoking breaks" - what a joke! 

 

30 minutes lunch unpaid and work the rest of your day (not spend it checking your telephones and FT posts).

 

If you let employers have their way they take the piss. In my field they expect you to work/stay late or do weekend work without pay. Stress from this can lead to being unwell so in that instance pay me bitches

Edited 15 August 2019 by Jattdogg

[cambridgefox]

Take it as holiday.

im going to sound like a right miserable twat,and I know everyone is different,but I had one day off when my dad died to sort bits with my mum.Then for me the best way was to throw myself back into it.As I said different people deal with things in their own way.

 

You own a small company and let’s say 7 staff.Each person is essential.

One person goes off a lot it becomes contagious and others do it.

Little Jonny is off school ill and someone goes off to look after them,others follow.

Take it as holiday.

yes I’m a miserable sod,but I know personally how it effects things.

saying that I had a dodgy double knee op years ago that caused me to be off work for 7 weeks.

[CollinsLCFC]

Some people just look at them as Animals and the loss of Animal life is less distressing than a loss of Human life. Although, people who have had pets for years build a strong bond. Maybe more so people who are lonely, dont have much family etc - Losing a pet could put people in a really upsetting position. If you are not in the mental state for work, you shouldnt go work. However I do agree that people abuse the system, but this will always be the case with people calling in sick with coughs, minor colds and general sickies.

[stripeyfox]

I've owned dogs all my life (and we had them when we were kids). It is very upsetiing when they die BUT I would never consider the death of a pet to be a reason for bereavement leave.

 

Ridiculous!
 

 

[grobyfox1990]

100% getting too soft, you can't say a word to anyone without them then being labelled with some disorder. Yes an easier life is advancement of the human race, but life is tough, cruel, harsh and unfair. That's not changing anytime soon. So learn to deal with it, or people that can deal with it are going to get a lot further than those that can't, whilst the former sits at home blaming everyone but themselves.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, grobyfox1990 said:

100% getting too soft, you can't say a word to anyone without them then being labelled with some disorder. Yes an easier life is advancement of the human race, but life is tough, cruel, harsh and unfair. That's not changing anytime soon. So learn to deal with it, or people that can deal with it are going to get a lot further than those that can't, whilst the former sits at home blaming everyone but themselves.

 

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

With respect to the article itself, bereavement leave is of course up to the employer and I'm sure it was in the contract somewhere.

 

With respect to the general question asked, life becoming easier and softer for everyone is a sign of progress IMO and I've no idea why some folks deify suffering as some kind of moral accomplishment.

[Innovindil]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

 

It's not a moral accomplishment it's sometimes a necessary life skill. 

 

People will die, pets will die, stuff in your house will break, your car will break down, few are the people that have 1 job last a lifetime, few are the relationships (intimate or otherwise) that will span a lifetime. Stuff will go wrong, things will break you can't fix. Imagine if EVERYONE broke down the second they smashed a teacup, who would be there to pick the pieces up. 

 

This whole it's okay to not be okay narrative being pushed is absolutely fine, but it's also okay to just be okay. 

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

It's not a moral accomplishment it's sometimes a necessary life skill. 

 

People will die, pets will die, stuff in your house will break, your car will break down, few are the people that have 1 job last a lifetime, few are the relationships (intimate or otherwise) that will span a lifetime. Stuff will go wrong, things will break you can't fix. Imagine if EVERYONE broke down the second they smashed a teacup, who would be there to pick the pieces up. 

 

This whole it's okay to not be okay narrative being pushed is absolutely fine, but it's also okay to just be okay. 

Absolutely, esp the last sentence.

 

I guess we perhaps we disagree on where the balance currently lies - IMO despite the progress made there's still far too much of a stigma in the UK about seeking help/mental health issues but I can understand folks thinking differently.

[Izzy]

1 hour ago, David Guiza said:

 

 

I am more concerned by the companies that put so much pressure on their employees that they feel they can't have days off for physical/mental health days through fear of being sacked. 

 

On the flip side, companies are afraid to tackle poor behaviour, under performance and general piss taking by employees through fear of bullying claims or grievances raised.

 

We’re in danger of spending so much time staring at our screens that we’ve forgotten how to have honest, two way, sensible, adult to adult conversations with each other.

[Innovindil]

12 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Absolutely, esp the last sentence.

 

I guess we perhaps we disagree on where the balance currently lies - IMO despite the progress made there's still far too much of a stigma in the UK about seeking help/mental health issues but I can understand folks thinking differently.

Respectfully I disagree. See the depression thread, full of people will genuine problems yet full of people will the knowledge to help. I doubt that would have even remotely existed 10 years ago. Yet here it is, most of the time on the front page of threads. But we have to be careful not to push too far too fast and turn ordinary life problems into extraordinary mental health problems. Bad stuff happens, most of the time you'll have a normal period of bad emotions but it will get better, the focus should (but imo, currently isn't) be towards the problems and emotions that don't get sorted/better with time. 

[SpacedX]

22 minutes ago, Izzy said:

We’re in danger of spending so much time staring at our screens that we’ve forgotten how to have honest, two way, sensible, adult to adult conversations with each other.

Presidential candidate Tulsi Gabbard talks a great deal about this and how politics and society have abandoned the art of true constructive discourse and the dialectic process.