The fate of Bury and Bolton- could we/should we help?

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

Maybe the players should be the ones doing something they're the ones reaping all the rewards, do they really love football as much as they say they do?

... do you mean players in general or the existing roster at the club!! 

 

[mozartfox]

Is Big Sam digging into his pockets to help Bolton?  His several ‘pay offs’ probably dwarf their debts.

[ian_marshall]

5 minutes ago, reynard said:

I don't agree with this. Whilst the case of Bury lies within the scope of the EFL the issue of financing the game starts at the very top. Which is why so many of the worst cases of clubs in financial turmoil of recent years stem from falling out of the Premier League, Leeds, Coventry, Portsmouth, Bolton etc etc.  Even Aston Villa were on the brink within the last 2 years.

Have to disagree Reynard in respect of Bury, although I do agree with you on a wider level. 

 

I believe what Manini is trying to say is that in the case of Bury, the EFL only ratified the sale in December of last year and yet within month's the owner was unable to continue funding the club. Surely proper due diligence by the EFL would have highlighted that Steve Dale didn't have the resources to operate a football club.

 

Of course, Steve Dale also has to take a great deal of responsibility here for not being very thorough with his due diligence but I struggle to see how the EFL walk away from this without criticism when they introduced a system which was brought in to prevent such occurrences from ever happening in the first place.

 

Admittedly the EFL don't have a crystal ball to ensure the long term sustainability of club's changing ownership, however having undertaken some form of auditing of the prospective owner I would expect that they would ensure that the finances are in place to at least operate the club for a minimum of 12 months which is clearly not the case in this instance. 

 

If rumours are to be believed, the owner wasn't even interviewed during the fit and proper persons test which makes me think that if true there are systematic failures within their vetting processes. 

[davieG]

5 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

players in general

 

[koop.]

No, it's that simple 

 

There are many factors as to why these clubs are in the situation that they're in, none of which are the fault of their loyal supporters, however the only way another club/clubs owners should help is if they want to buy that club 

 

Why on earth should another club want or need to bail out another business that's been run into the ground? I understand the sentiment, but unless those who bail the club out take control of it (buy it) then the help will be pissed up the wall like the initial money 

 

It's incredibly sad but it also (as harsh as this sounds) isn't our issue 

 

And it wouldn't be the issue of any other club if the same happened to Leicester (which it almost did)

[norwichfox]

I don't think that "handouts" would be of any long term benefit. What needs to be looked at is the distribution of the vast wealth coming via TV rights, every year the unbelievable levels of greed from Agents, clubs and players is there for all to see and it probably will all fall flat on its face one day when Sky's Satellites fall out of the sky....

 

#rebootfootball

[RowlattsFox]

I'm sure if they were allowed to Man City would buy Bury and rebrand them as Man City B and take up their place in the league.

 

A salary cap at league 1 and league 2 would make sense but I've no idea if that would be feasible with some big clubs dropping in to that league with players on big wages.

[sacreblueits442]

2 minutes ago, davieG said:

 

... the players, however altruistic can not be aware of the financial running of the club in question!! 

  The first place we need to look is in the accounts of the club, the ratio of wages to revenue is a good pointer and I believe a key area as well as a kpi for analysis. Without any knowledge it is difficult to find the reason how Bury got to where there are. Poor financial mismanagement is a probability but until we know the facts we cannot give the appropriate aid. 

[yorkie1999]

The EFL should have a pot where if a club goes into administration, the pot would cover the cost of buying it and the ownership should be handed over to the supporters.

[Guest MattP]

4 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

The EFL should have a pot where if a club goes into administration, the pot would cover the cost of buying it and the ownership should be handed over to the supporters.

Problem with that is no one would care then about going bankrupt. It be worth borrowing and spending loads to try and go up.

[Stoopid]

A lot of this mess goes back to Stewart Day, Bury's previous owner and the bloke who 'sold ' Bury to Dale for £1.

Basically financing their promotion last season with loans against his property companies payable in shares not interest. When these companies went bust there was nothing to pay the expensive players they'd recruited.

Add to that a dodgy mortgage taken against Gigg Lane & it's little wonder prospective buyers have taken one look at the situation and walked away shaking their heads.

The situation is more analogous to Cov City than our own administration.  The Sky Blues & their fans should be very worried this morning...

[Tommo220]

 

22 minutes ago, MattP said:

Problem with that is no one would care then about going bankrupt. It be worth borrowing and spending loads to try and go up.

Exactly. there'd also be no incentive for creditors to take a deal as the club would effectively be underwritten by the EFL.

 

The EFL should take first charge over all football grounds instead.  Don't allow clubs to borrow against the ground, so even if a club goes to the wall, a new club can be set up and still have a home.  That ground would then be a source of income to get the new club back up to a level befitting of their previous status.

 

[TrentFox]

Absolutely not. I’m desperately sorry for all the people who will lose their job or their club, but it’s still a resounding ‘no’ from me. Whatever mess they’ve got into, they’ve got into it of their own volition. Whatever deals they made that they couldn’t afford, whatever contracts they signed that have crippled them - they chose to do it. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but the alternative is to erode accountability and therefore encourage even more recklessness by clubs. Hopefully, this puts the fear of God into all clubs - our own included - and encourages them to get a grip on reality and start living within their means. But it won’t. 

[moore_94]

Bigger richer clubs have already tried helping out Bury

 

As already mentioned we signed a young player from them a few weeks ago, as have other clubs, and I am sure that has come with a decent amount of financial assistance

 

Man City when they moved into their new training ground actually gave Bury their old one rent free for 5 years (estimated to be worth around £80k per year), all they had to do was maintain it and look after it. Man City eventually kicked them out because they ruined it, the pitches got to a point where they weren’t even at an adequate level for a league football side to use

 

The problem has been the EFL allowing owners to take over clubs who are not sustainable and trustworthy, and then also the clubs not living within their means

 

Putting together pots of money for clubs who need helping out will only lead to more clubs getting into trouble as they will just think they can spend loads to try and get promoted and get given money to sort themselves out if they don’t

[moore_94]

This just shows the EFL need to sort themselves out with how they let people buy clubs, imagine letting someone with this CV own a multi million pound business

 

[Dan]

To be honest, no. As much as the sentiment would be right, it's fundamentally wrong.

[Guest Markyblue]

Like with most things its the fans that suffer and my heart ached for them bury fans their desolation was heartbreaking,  they love that club like we love ours.

[brisfox]

I agree with the fact that the club themselves are to blame (Bury FC are now a dead duck), however, the fans are blameless and it's them who I'm interested in helping. Remember, others came to our aid in times of need 17 years ago. Any money raised should go to AFC Bury or whatever a new club is called. So guys and gals, do we help or not?

[somebum]

Asks a bigger question, why should the successful help the suffering?

[WilmslowFox]

4 minutes ago, brisfox said:

I agree with the fact that the club themselves are to blame (Bury FC are now a dead duck), however, the fans are blameless and it's them who I'm interested in helping. Remember, others came to our aid in times of need 17 years ago. Any money raised should go to AFC Bury or whatever a new club is called. So guys and gals, do we help or not?

This.  I'm sure some sort of crowd funding will start soon (if it hasn't already) to help a phoenix Bury club to get up and running.  I liked the idea of offering them a friendly match that someone mentioned too.

 

I'm sure there will be other demonstrations of solidarity, such as banners at games.  Is there anything to stop our players warming up pre-match in Bury kit rather than usual training kit?

[Nick]

2 minutes ago, somebum said:

Asks an ignorant, self serving selfish question, why should the successful help the suffering?

 

Sorted that for ya buddy.

[somebum]

Just now, Swan Lesta said:

 

Sorted that for ya buddy.

Thought you might, oh great one

[Nick]

1 minute ago, somebum said:

Thought you might, oh great one

Humanity an all that maybe? And not, y'know shitting on those less fortunate an all that?

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

Problem with that is no one would care then about going bankrupt. It be worth borrowing and spending loads to try and go up.

I'm sure the details could be sorted out. Strict ffp rules etc.

[yorkie1999]

12 minutes ago, somebum said:

Asks a bigger question, why should the successful help the suffering?

Why shouldn't the suffering shoot all the successful and burn their houses down?